Do you think smokers are being discriminated against?

[brokenbrainwave]

Shit, all this self rightous bullshit is nauseating. If you want to smoke, go for it. If you don't, go for it. I really don't give a flying fuck if someone smokes or doesn't. I personally don't and I'm not going to infringe on somebodies decision to, if that's what they want.

The patch aint working for ya, eh?

 

[Captain Howdy]

Jehovah’s Witness or Avon?

LMFAO !!!! thats just wrongggggggg. funny as hell tho.

while im here agian, i want to ask.........

After the government gets rid of smokeing, who are they going after next?

 

[dickE]

What has been allowed to happen to the smoker, the tobacco companies, the tobacco farmer and his rural ecomony which was dependent upon tobacco income and even the US taxpayer--smoking or non--who now must make up to the US Treasury those revenues formerly collected on tobacco sales is a nearly textbook example of a democracy in action.........a democracy of which Ben Franklin warned as being the most brutal form of government.

That's why we more wisely have a representative republic!


Classic example of a democracy: A stopped elevator contains 4 men and 1 woman........the proposition is set foward to have sex with the woman.......they vote.........get the picture??



EDIT: Incidentaly.......FYI...I'm 55 and have yet to smoke my first cigarette....don't like the odor, either, but I'll defend the rights people have to do things I might not like........because mine might be next!

 

[bluespoke]

Re: Enough Hysteria....

How about facts? http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm#iarc

I know someone will interject their "feelings" and other blather they've been spoon fed, so let's get on with it. Baaaah Baaah!

You want facts? There are articles in the Lancet, the British Medical Journal, the New England Journal of Medicine to name but three. All with scientific evidence of passive smoking and its effects.

Better still come to our local hospice and see the patients there with smoking related diseases that have never smoked in their lives.

It's a fact. Passive smoking kills.

 

[The Heretic]

Regardless of whether you smoke or not, do you agree? Why or why not?

No I don't agree - no smoker has the right to pollute the air I breathe. They have the right to pollute their own lungs, but no one else's. It is as simple as that.

 

[Mellon Collie]

Re: Re: Do you think smokers are being discriminated against?

No I don't agree - no smoker has the right to pollute the air I breathe. They have the right to pollute their own lungs, but no one else's. It is as simple as that.

Oh so you drive a solar powered car?

Thanks for not polluting my air! You're so kind and generous.

 

[Mellon Collie]

PS: All of you crazy kids can get off your high horses. None of you have the right to bitch about your poor polluted air unless you're some crazy survivalist person in the middle of Montana or something. And even then, wouldn't you have something better to do that post on a porn board - like prepare for some sort of Armageddon or something? Every last one of you pollute this earth in some way. So please proceed to kiss mine and my Newport Box 100's asses. Or rather butts, heh.

Thank you.

 

[Touch1]

Re: Re: Enough Hysteria....

You want facts? There are articles in the Lancet, the British Medical Journal, the New England Journal of Medicine to name but three. All with scientific evidence of passive smoking and its effects.

Better still come to our local hospice and see the patients there with smoking related diseases that have never smoked in their lives.

It's a fact. Passive smoking kills.

Well put. I used to teach pulmonary rehab classes to people tethered to O2 tanks, as is my Mom. So instead of these people enjoying their retirement years, they are having a hard time getting to the bathroom. When we did cadaver dissections, it was easy to spot the somkers, They had black lungs. I'd just as soon keep mine like I got em, plus I'm allergic to cig. smoke. Nothing is more disgusting than to try to eat a nice meal and have the aroma of the food overcome by stale cigarette smoke. They shouldn't stop with NY, it should be all the states.

 

[Whizz Kid]

Re: Re: Re: Enough Hysteria....

Nothing is more disgusting than to try to eat a nice meal and have the aroma of the food overcome by stale cigarette smoke. They shouldn't stop with NY, it should be all the states.

So I guess you'll be passing on the smoked salmon?

 

[Simply Me]

Increase our insurance rates because we smoke? Increase the taxes on the cigarettes, yet again, to punish us because we became addicted to nicotine? Fucking A.. the mind set of some people. While we're at it, let's increase the insurance on the people who drink alcohol, and the people who eat "clog my arteries McDonalds". You come into the e.r having a heart attack, and you don't have insurance, I will pick up the tab, thank you.

You think alcohol doesn't kill nearly as many people a year? One might say," well, they arent' pouring it down my throat, but a smoker is forcing me to breathe in their fumes." Get on the road with a drunk. I will take my chances with someone who smokes anyday, over a person driving drunk. It bothers you to have to walk through our area for a split second? As stated, hold your breath. We have been forced out of everywhere, and while I agree with not smoking inside buildings, where there is not a lot of ventilation, don't expect me not to smoke outside. I am a considerate smoker, and I don't intentionally smoke around non-smokers. But don't walk through my area that is designated for smoking, and turn your nose up at me.

It's all about rights. No one will ever agree on this issue,, but I, for one, am tired of being the target for every self righteous asshole that thinks their habit is less dangerous than mine.

That is all. My rant is over, and I feel better.

 

[The Heretic]

Re: Re: Re: Do you think smokers are being discriminated against?

Oh so you drive a solar powered car?

Thanks for not polluting my air! You're so kind and generous.

I just knew someone would come up with this rather specious argument - but I thought it would more likely be LC rather than you.

I keep my driving (and riding) to a minimum by combining trips and living close to work (in college I walked several miles to school, rode my bicycle or took the bus most of the time), or even working from home. In short, I do my best to keep my polluting down to the minumum required to survive (to make money for food and shelter).

OTOH, smoking in a restaurant or workplace is something that smokers can live without. Smoking in such a public enclosed place is not required of smokers to be able to work or live. Smokers can, by choice, smoke other places and do without smoking while they are within public buildings. I do not run my car or my motorcycle inside a restaurant or workplace, and I don't think it is discrimination to say that to do so would not be wise.

Whether a restaurant is a public or private place might be an interesting and valid debate, but comparing non-optional transportation to optional smoking is comparing apples to oranges. You can do better than that MC.

 

[KingII]

I think so ......

I have quit smoking and feel that it was a good thing for me to do so. But had I continued I would have felt as though I were be dicriminated agianst.
I also feel thier is a good reason for it..... not that I do myself but I cannot stand to be in a room with smoke now. I can understand why so many fight to get smooking out of buildings...

 

[agezinder]

NYC is about to ban smoking in bars and restaurants. Smoking will be permitted in restaurants and bars where there is a separate smoking room, in cigar bars, and outdoor cafes.

There is a smoker's rights group that say they are being discriminated against.

Regardless of whether you smoke or not, do you agree? Why or why not?

Well, they already have this type of ban in California and I like it. I can't stand smoke and it gets me sick. I've tried smoking a couple times a long time ago and it just doesn't work for me. I don't see the appeal, especially when you see it from a health standpoint, but that's my own opinion.

 

[Carp]

Discrimination is a legal term, with legal consequences. In order for smokers to be discriminated against, they must be a protected class. They aren't. Thus, by definition, they are not being discriminated against. Are we arguing that they should be part of a protected class? Should your right to smoke, anything, anywhere, be protected by law? Anyone want to step up and say yes? Now, think about a cigar. Or a pipe. No, I don't think smoking should be outlawed, but that is a far cry from affording smokers the legal protection to smoke at will. Smoke at home, smoke outside, whatever. As long as it is not a protected activity, smokers, just like everyone else, should behave more or less respectfully.

 

[CoolidgEffect]

If they're truly concerned about the possible consequences to others of some people's vices, then shouldn't they also ban alcohol in bars and restaurants? Which is more dangerous: being stuck in car with a driver who smokes, or being stuck in a car with a driver who's been drinking?

Well most states do have laws against that drinking and driving thing. What's your point?

 

[Temptress_1960]

I live in Vermont. We have that law already; smoking is prohibited in public enclosed buildings, including bars and restaurants - UNLESS the bar or restaurant meets certain specifications to qualify for the purchase of a rather pricy cabaret license. If your bar or restaurant has a cabaret license and a separately vented smoking section, then smoking is permitted.

It's fine, really not a big deal.

I do resent the constantly increasing taxes on tobacco. This is a regressive tax, and for the state to use the money thus raised as a sizeable part of its yearly budget seems a bit hypocritical. What happens if everyone quits? The budget goes into the red.

Why single out smokers? Why not raise the taxes on alcohol? Tax the hell outta that six pack of Bud. Alcohol is just as bad for you and those around you as tobacco is. Worse, even. But here in Vermont we don't consider raising the taxes on it. Why? Well, coincidentally, the state of Vermont controls all the liquor stores. Liquor sales benefit the state.

I am a considerate smoker. I would not even ask to smoke in the homes or cars of non-smokers. I do not litter the ground with cigarette butts. The only time I'm gonna hover near the mall entrance to smoke is if it's raining and I'm under an overhang.

Are you equally considerate? Do you drink and then drive? Do you slather yourself in perfume and happily fumigate your workspace? Do you wander into the smoking areas and bitch and complain about the smokers?

There are a lot of risky things we all choose to do, or choose not to do. Smoking, drinking, unsafe sex, recreational drugs, jay-walking, not wearing your seatbelt, the list is endless.

For years smoking was ok. Encouraged, even. Watch old movies, or old TV. I can remember when I first went to work in the late 70s, you had an ashtray on your desk and nobody gave a damn if you smoked at work or not.

 

[Whizz Kid]

For years smoking was ok. Encouraged, even. Watch old movies, or old TV. I can remember when I first went to work in the late 70s, you had an ashtray on your desk and nobody gave a damn if you smoked at work or not.

We had a smoking lounge in highshool. Granted, it was outside, but still, they did little to discourage it.

 

[Mellon Collie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you think smokers are being discriminated against?

I just knew someone would come up with this rather specious argument - but I thought it would more likely be LC rather than you.

I keep my driving (and riding) to a minimum by combining trips and living close to work (in college I walked several miles to school, rode my bicycle or took the bus most of the time), or even working from home. In short, I do my best to keep my polluting down to the minumum required to survive (to make money for food and shelter).

OTOH, smoking in a restaurant or workplace is something that smokers can live without. Smoking in such a public enclosed place is not required of smokers to be able to work or live. Smokers can, by choice, smoke other places and do without smoking while they are within public buildings. I do not run my car or my motorcycle inside a restaurant or workplace, and I don't think it is discrimination to say that to do so would not be wise.

Whether a restaurant is a public or private place might be an interesting and valid debate, but comparing non-optional transportation to optional smoking is comparing apples to oranges. You can do better than that MC.

I have no problem with going outside to smoke and I agree that smoking in a confined area is inconsiderate to others and it's not something I do often (of course that may be because there is never the opportunity to) but if people want to complain about me standing outside of store or mall smoking my cigarette you must be out of your mind. I'm out there smoking for your convenience and you have the nerve to bitch about it? You don't go to a gas station and bitch because it smells of petrol.

And my point with automobiles is and will remain to be: Gas puts forth so many toxins and chemicals into the air, along with aerosol cans, bug/hairsprays and the like. You are inhaling all that shit on a daily basis and have the audacity to claim it is second hand smoke from my cigarette killing you? I don't choose to walk down the street and have exhaust blown in my direction but I'm not asking to ban cars from my city.

It's not like people are dropping dead everyday from second smoke inhalation. Shit, most smokers don't even have a chance to develop some sort of smoking related cancer before they die of something else and these are the people whose lungs it is going directly into. Even if you ban cigarette smoking altogether, it's not like you are going to cure death.

And you know what, apples and oranges are both fruit and therefore have a basis for comparison.

Baaaaa.

 

[Guest]

This has prompted some nice responses.

Regarding the second hand smoke argument - wouldn't that logic warrant some stricter control over alcohol, what with the fatality rate and all for alcohol abuse and intoxicated accidents?

 

[Guest]

 

[lilminx]

Re: n/a

The majority of smokers are polite enough to ask another person if they mind if they smoke. Most would not smoke in a resturant anyway.

Where are you getting these ideas from? Smokers who sit in smoking sections specifically ask to sit in the smoking section so that they can smoke there. And the majority of smokers, in my experience, do NOT ask another person. The ones who do ask usually do so thinking that the other person will say, "Oh, no, of course I don't mind! Go right ahead!". It's a formality.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Re: Re: n/a

Where are you getting these ideas from? Smokers who sit in smoking sections specifically ask to sit in the smoking section so that they can smoke there. And the majority of smokers, in my experience, do NOT ask another person. The ones who do ask usually do so thinking that the other person will say, "Oh, no, of course I don't mind! Go right ahead!". It's a formality.

I think you're right. It's not an honest question, just a formality to SEEM polite.

I once had that happening to me when I was waiting at a bus stop, and a man next to me asked if I minded if he smoked. By the time I had finished the sentence "yes, as a matter of fact, I do mind", he had already put the cigarette inhis mouth and lit a match.

He looked very surprised but he did walk away a little, so the smoke wouldn't be right in my face.

 

[Temptress_1960]

i really hate smokers
they get on my last damned nerve

Too damn bad. Get over it.

 

[#1tankcomander]

Normally I don't post in these type threads, but I feel compelled!

As previously dicussed, somkers in most cases are courteous enough to go out to smoke away from the general public and there are a few assholes that complain that smoking should be banned. (Ex-smokers are the worst)

If one complains about others smoking, toxins from emmissions, factory emmissions, ETC......... don't care where wrapping paper, newspaper, calenders, paper towels, books, toilet paper, printer paper....ETC come from!

Trees and plants take in the toxins WE put out, yet companies destroy mountain ranges every day. Yes there are replanting of trees in areas of strippin in AMERICA only! What about South America? No laws there for replanting!

Tell you all what, I'll go a month without smoking, if you nonsmokers that are soooo consiterate can go a month without paper products, yes even to wipe your ass!

Enough said!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I have no problem with going outside to smoke and I agree that smoking in a confined area is inconsiderate to others and it's not something I do often (of course that may be because there is never the opportunity to) but if people want to complain about me standing outside of store or mall smoking my cigarette you must be out of your mind. I'm out there smoking for your convenience and you have the nerve to bitch about it? You don't go to a gas station and bitch because it smells of petrol.

And my point with automobiles is and will remain to be: Gas puts forth so many toxins and chemicals into the air, along with aerosol cans, bug/hairsprays and the like. You are inhaling all that shit on a daily basis and have the audacity to claim it is second hand smoke from my cigarette killing you? I don't choose to walk down the street and have exhaust blown in my direction but I'm not asking to ban cars from my city.

First of all, yes, I DO have the nerve to bitch about people standing right outside the store wher I'm entering, so that I'm exposed to the smoke! You CAN go a few meters away, but I can't get into the shop any other way than through the entrance!

And we're not talking about the fumes the cars give out, that's another subject for another thread. We're talking smoke from cigarettes and cigars. Unless you stick to the subject, I'll just assume that you're out of arguments.