Do You Really Listen?

[gordo12]

Manu has a thread going regarding anon emails & comments. Personally, I find a lot of them valuable. I wouldn't change the existing system.

Lots of posters agreed with that.

But here's the question(s).

How many of you really listen? How many of you read them and immediately dismiss them? Do you use them to try to improve? Do you go back at intervals and reread them to see if anything new can be gleaned from them?

I'm talking anon and registered members.

I'm reading a story right now. It's the 3rd chapter. The writer's dialogue has been called many uncomplimentary terms, but over the months the story has taken, he hasn't blinked. He isn't learning. He isn't listening. He keeps plowing on through.

It made me wonder how many of us are guilty of doing just that?

 

[lovecraft68]

I guess its a mix. I pay no heed to 'best ever' 'worst ever' comments because neither is true.

Compliments like "I came three times" don't resonate with me, I guess that's great the story did the trick, but whatever.

When someone gives some grammar critiques-I have someone who as anon randomly will send a feedback about a story with a list of errors. Many they're right, some I don't think so,

I acknowledge those in the sense I know my grammar needs work and I know the same mistakes I keep needing to watch for. So at this point if that is about an old story I ignore it, because I'm aware I sucked back then.

The only ones I take to heart is if someone really goes into depth about something they liked or did not like, especially if its something I was "going for" and they think I nailed it or missed by a mile, those I find to be food for thought.

As for the person you're talking about, maybe the story was written well in advance and these were already done, and he's not going back, or they don't care about grammar nazis because they're writing for fun.

Some people really don't care if they get better, they're writing smut and if people say "that's hot" its good enough.

Then there's my initial feeling with the ultra picky type of "let's see your stories, oh, right, you don't have any"

 

[TarnishedPenny]

If it’s moronic, hateful BS, it gets ignored, maybe deleted. Honest criticism gets digested. Sometimes suggestions are needed, sometimes not. Sometimes it’s a good suggestion but would take the story in what I think is the wrong direction.

Commenters who have the spine to identify themselves get bonus attention.

 

[SimonDoom]

Absolutely, yes, I do.

Of course, like other authors, I get comments that are not helpful. The least helpful type of comment is "I don't like the kind of stuff you write." The extreme version of this sort of thing is "You are a depraved human being who should be locked up in jail because you write this sort of thing." I've gotten some comments in that vein. I ignore those, unless they are so bad I can laugh at them.

But there are two types of comments that I regard as helpful and that I try to remember the next time I write a story.

One is the story faulting my writing mechanics or spelling mishaps. I know grammar and spelling very well, but I can be sloppy as I write, and miss things, and not catch them in the proofreading process. So, with every ensuing story I try to be a bit more careful about this sort of thing than the last time. I think my writing has gotten a little tighter with time as a result.


The second helpful type of criticism/comment concerns plausibility and character motivation. I write a lot of stories on the edge of believability, or maybe over the edge. But I want to do what I can to assist the reader in suspending disbelief. I want the reader to feel that my characters, from one scene to the next, are not acting in ways that insult the readers' intelligence. I appreciate it when readers let me know I've pushed them too far. That's also the sort of thing I take into account when I write the next story. I think I've become a bit better with character motivation as a result of paying attention to these kinds of comments.

 

[KeithD]

It made me wonder how many of us are guilty of doing just that?

Sorry, I don't feel guilty about "listening to" or not "listening to" comments from strangers. And I'm not here to improve my writing. I'm here to share writing I was going to do anyway. It is what it is--and what it will be. This ain't The New Yorker, and I'm not William S. Hemingway--or even trying to be.

And what readers get from me here is mostly material that's been in the marketplace for a year or more and is only now being given away for free.

 

[NotWise]

I pay attention, but I only occasionally get comments that resonate. It usually happens in the context where a story might not be as popular as I thought it could be and someone gives me a comment that seems to explain the problem. It makes no difference whether they're from anonymous our not.

One of the problems with taking comments seriously is that you don't know where the reader is coming from. Comments from beta readers I'm familiar with carry a lot more weight.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I hope I listen. I rarely get "writing help" through comments, I guess because I know the basic technical stuff and I can competently edit, but the inputs from my betas over the years has been invaluable. Their gentle persuasion eventually sinks in, and I'm a better writer for their input. I still apply the "Jason Clearwater word quota criteria" in every story.

It's a two-way street for me, mentoring in both directions. Some people can always teach an old dog new tricks, and you can pass back your own ragged wisdom in return.

 

[lovecraft68]

I hope I listen. I rarely get "writing help" through comments, I guess because I know the basic technical stuff and I can competently edit, but the inputs from my betas over the years has been invaluable. Their gentle persuasion eventually sinks in, and I'm a better writer for their input. I still apply the "Jason Clearwater word quota criteria" in every story.

It's a two-way street for me, mentoring in both directions. Some people can always teach an old dog new tricks, and you can pass back your own ragged wisdom in return.

Wow, I haven't heard from Jason in forever.

He helped me with the recurring issues I had with dialogue tags. He understood that I tend to respond to blunt force trauma rather than being subtle

"Listen, fucker, if its talky talky, then its a comma and a lower case He. she...if the fucker talks and is doing something like fucking, its period and a capital....

That's pretty much word for word.

he also beta read the only gay male sex scene I've written and gave me great feedback on it.

 

[Ian_Snow]

If it's vitriolic, I'll move on. If there is genuine constructive criticism involved, of course I'll listen. I won't implement every change particularly if they're suggesting fixes to what is essentially a narrator or character's voice, but if I've been doing something obviously wrong or there's some way I can improve, I'll gladly do it in future works.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I listen, but reader comments don't often change the way I write.

Most of them are variations on "I enjoyed this story!" and those are easy to listen to, I will bask in that kind of affirmation all day long, but they don't require any action on my part.

Then there are the readers who tell me "I would have liked this story better if it was an entirely different story", or "keep writing this story forever". Neither of those are useful to me. I'm not going to keep on cranking the handle after a story reaches its natural end, and while I do write HEA romance now and then, that doesn't mean I'm going to write only HEA forevermore.

Of the rest, there are a few that are really useful (continuity errors, or that time I didn't realise a certain word was a major racial slur in UK English), but a lot of the "corrections" I get from readers are incorrect.

Overall, my writing is much more affected by the beta readers who look at my stories before I post them.

 

[TadOverdon]

Technical criticism interests me.

If I get the same remark repeatedly, say about a character seeming egotistical whom I didn't particularly intend to be that way, I'll assume that my writing has sent that message regardless of what I intended. Maybe I'll make an adjustment based on the criticism, but I'm more likely to continue with the story as is. So-and-so is an egotist? Okay, so they are.

 

[Privates1stClass]

Manu has a thread going regarding anon emails & comments. Personally, I find a lot of them valuable. I wouldn't change the existing system.

Lots of posters agreed with that.

But here's the question(s).

How many of you really listen? How many of you read them and immediately dismiss them? Do you use them to try to improve? Do you go back at intervals and reread them to see if anything new can be gleaned from them?

I'm talking anon and registered members.

I'm reading a story right now. It's the 3rd chapter. The writer's dialogue has been called many uncomplimentary terms, but over the months the story has taken, he hasn't blinked. He isn't learning. He isn't listening. He keeps plowing on through.

It made me wonder how many of us are guilty of doing just that?

I think getting comments, any comments at all, is the problem before you can take action to 1) improve your writing, 2) agree/disagree with the commenter, or 3) totally ignore the comment. I think I've averaged about one comment per 10,000 views, and most of those were, "I liked it," or "Could stand improvement." How can you improve your writing with comments like those?

 

[gordo12]

Sorry, I don't feel guilty about "listening to" or not "listening to" comments from strangers. And I'm not here to improve my writing. I'm here to share writing I was going to do anyway. It is what it is--and what it will be. This ain't The New Yorker, and I'm not William S. Hemingway--or even trying to be.

And what readers get from me here is mostly material that's been in the marketplace for a year or more and is only now being given away for free.

Not to nitpick but feeling guilty about something is different from being guilty about something. Nobody said anything about feelings.

And if you're satisfied with your "Groundhog Day" style of writing...great!

 

[SamScribble]

I usually write short stories. Not many thousands of words of beginning middle and end. And yet the most common comment I get is: 'I hope there is going to be another chapter', followed closely by: 'I can't wait for the next chapter'.

I hear you, reader. But it doesn't make any difference.

 

[KeithD]

Not to nitpick but feeling guilty about something is different from being guilty about something. Nobody said anything about feelings.

And if you're satisfied with your "Groundhog Day" style of writing...great!

What's a "Groundhog Day" Style? I suspect you are being snotty. Tell me why you aren't. And what credentials you have to look down your nose at anyone else's writing?

And what's it any of anyone else's business what style someone here takes? Or why they choose to post stories here? Or whether they "listen" to and give any regard to comments? There is a tendency of putting noses into the business of others here and telling them why "everyone" does or should post stories here. News flash, it isn't always--or mostly, I think, to develop one's writing. And there aren't that many readers (or writers for that matter) tooling around Literotica who have the chops to tell anyone else here how they can develop better as a writer anyway.

If they want you or anyone else to give them instruction on writing they can ask for it either in a note on the story or in the Feedback forum. It's not really up to you to assume they want your wonderful, sage advice on writing.

I've been writing for publication for over fifty years, have writing and editing training out the whazoo, this is the last stop for most of my stories--the series I'm posting now started in the marketplace four years ago. Neither it nor I are in the "development' stage. For better or worse (and I'm not claiming to be a Nobel Prize for Literature writer), this is my style and the level of my writing ability, and I have no particular reason to believe that you or any other reader here has the chops to "develop" my writing. I don't post stories here to "develop" into a writer or to give you or anyone else a warm and fuzzy feeling about instructing me or to feel guilty about anything. I post to share getting off with others what gets me off--in the context of what I hope are interesting stories.

Feel free to feel guilty about anything you want--just keep it to yourself.

Again, what's a "Groundhog Day" style to one who knows so much about writing as you seem to think you do?

 

[gordo12]

What's a "Groundhog Day" Style? I suspect you are being snotty. Tell me why you aren't. And what credentials you have to look down your nose at anyone else's writing?

And what's it any of anyone else's business what style someone here takes? Or why they choose to post stories here? Or whether they "listen" to and give any regard to comments? There is a tendency of putting noses into the business of others here and telling them why "everyone" does or should post stories here. News flash, it isn't always--or mostly, I think, to develop one's writing. And there aren't that many readers (or writers for that matter) tooling around Literotica who have the chops to tell anyone else here how they can develop better as a writer anyway.

If they want you or anyone else to give them instruction on writing they can ask for it either in a note on the story or in the Feedback forum. It's not really up to you to assume they want your wonderful, sage advice on writing.

I've been writing for publication for over fifty years, have writing and editing training out the whazoo, this is the last stop for most of my stories--the series I'm posting now started in the marketplace four years ago. Neither it nor I are in the "development' stage. For better or worse (and I'm not claiming to be a Nobel Prize for Literature writer), this is my style and the level of my writing ability, and I have no particular reason to believe that you or any other reader here has the chops to "develop" my writing. I don't post stories here to "develop" into a writer or to give you or anyone else a warm and fuzzy feeling about instructing me or to feel guilty about anything. I post to share getting off with others what gets me off--in the context of what I hope are interesting stories.

Feel free to feel guilty about anything you want--just keep it to yourself.

Again, what's a "Groundhog Day" style to one who knows so much about writing as you seem to think you do?

Well, Keith, Groundhog Day style runs in a cyclical period, generally around 24 hours. Endless repetitious detail that's too much to go into here. I'd need a clear day with you to explain the intricacies; then, we'd need to go over it the day after. Of course, I'd make myself available in the days that follow to help out, although truthfully I believe you've mastered the mechanics of it without realizing it.

Good job!

I'm surprised you've never heard of it. Perhaps you could ask around. Your publisher perhaps might be able to help you.

You see, when you respond to comments, you do learn something!

 

[ElectricBlue]

You see, when you respond to comments, you do learn something!

Only when you listen.

To be fair, I didn't know about the historical connection either:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day Ain't Wikipedia wonderful?

I wasn't so much of a fan of the movie, though. Those endless repeats... .

 

[KeithD]

Well, Keith, Groundhog Day style runs in a cyclical period, generally around 24 hours. Endless repetitious detail that's too much to go into here. I'd need a clear day with you to explain the intricacies; then, we'd need to go over it the day after. Of course, I'd make myself available in the days that follow to help out, although truthfully I believe you've mastered the mechanics of it without realizing it.

Good job!

I'm surprised you've never heard of it. Perhaps you could ask around. Your publisher perhaps might be able to help you.

You see, when you respond to comments, you do learn something!

So, you were just being snotty.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Most of my comments are along the lines of "More, please!"

What's there to act upon? I keep on writing, so the readers will get more. Not necessarily more of the same characters, but more of my stuff.

There have been a few unhappy voices complaining I'm pulling plot points out of my ass without proper set up, but that's them not seeing the long term planning I did.

And those people who don't like who my characters have sex with... There's no cure for taste.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, Keith, Groundhog Day style runs in a cyclical period, generally around 24 hours. Endless repetitious detail that's too much to go into here. I'd need a clear day with you to explain the intricacies; then, we'd need to go over it the day after. Of course, I'd make myself available in the days that follow to help out, although truthfully I believe you've mastered the mechanics of it without realizing it.

Good job!

I'm surprised you've never heard of it. Perhaps you could ask around. Your publisher perhaps might be able to help you.

You see, when you respond to comments, you do learn something!

I'm familiar with the Ground Hog's Day style, but never connected it to him.
You couldn't be more dead on.
Now I'm mad I never thought of that.
Not mad enough that its still not funny though

 

[Handley_Page]

.
But here's the question(s).
.
I'm talking anon and registered members.

I'm reading a story right now. It's the 3rd chapter. The writer's dialogue has been called many uncomplimentary terms, but over the months the story has taken, he hasn't blinked. He isn't learning. He isn't listening. He keeps plowing on through.

It made me wonder how many of us are guilty of doing just that?

Perhaps he/she doesn't know HOW to alter it ?
OR
Perhaps that's exactly what he/she want it to be ?

 

[YDB95]

Sincere, constructive criticism? Sure, I listen. Comments to the effect of "I hated it" or any variation thereof, well, they're probably not going to like any of my other stories either, and there's plenty elsewhere that they can read instead. The ones that demonstrate that they either didn't read the story or at least weren't paying attention? Fuck 'em.

 

[TxRad]

Not really. I write my way. If I screw up something and they tell me, then I'll nod and go on. On Lit I write for me.

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>
It made me wonder how many of us are guilty of doing just that?

I can count the number of direct feedback messages I’ve received on one finger. It was a question about a series and I then realised I’d not clearly said where that series was continuing (under a different name, for Reasons.) I responded with the guidance, thanked him and added a pointer.

As to comments, sure, if it’s worth consideration, I consider it. One mentioned how I’d done my dialogue. It tweaked a thought and I did have some uses of ‘one person said and another person reacted jammed a bit together.’ It’d been clear in my mind when I wrote it but I understood how one could get that. I’ve kept it in mind.

But I’m not going to blindly do or change things just because someone says this or that.

 

[SimonDoom]

There are valuable comments and not so valuable comments, and then there are comments like this one, which I received this morning in response to my story about a married woman who spends a day at the beach in her new bikini. She shows off, but she doesn't cheat:

Martin will catch her cheating and I'm pretty sure he will torture her and murder her in a brutal manner.

I don't understand how someone's mind even goes there.