Disparity in Rape Statistics.

[Joe Wordsworth]

I was looking into it, and it appears that there is a /wide/ gap with regard to rape statistics. Hardcore feminist groups are saying that only 2% of rape cases are false, some men's groups say its 41%... FBI says its about 25%.

From personal experience, of the five women I've interacted with closely who claimed rape at some point in their lives--I've had reason (and good reason) to doubt about four of them, three if I squint. None of those saw legal action, so I wonder if the statistics given take into account those that claim that it had happened in their history without any prosecution.

It seems like a dreafully common thing for young women to claim happened. Then again, it really /could/ have.

Its all very disappointing.

 

[Misty_Morning]

.....

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Its all very disappointing.

I agree. It makes me sad and angry that crying "rape" has become a lot like "crying wolf"... it does nothing for the real devastated victims of rape.

 

[oggbashan]

It depends on the baseline

In the UK, the assumption is that a large proportion of rapes are never reported and only those that get as far as a report to the Police enter the official statistics.

Circumstantial evidence from the result of public appeals for information after multiple rape cases possibly involving the same perpetrator seems to suggest that one in three actual rapes don't get as far as the official records. Rape victims here are still reluctant to report rape, and they even more reluctant to follow through to the court proceedings.

There have been a few well-publicised cases of false accusations but they are vastly outnumbered by the real rapes that are not officially recorded.

A false accusation of rape can be devastating for the innocent person accused, but it requires real determination and skilful lying by the accuser to get as far as court.

What is worrying is the media trial by ordeal of the accused.

Og

 

[Liar]

According to EU statistics I read this summer, Scandinavia has the highest report rate for rapes in the union. (I dunno how you go about assesing something like non-reproted rapes, probably anonymous surveys.) I think the number was roughly 1 out of 3 rapes that gets reported. Yes, that's supposed to be high. Why so low, mainly because the odds are so very much against the victim.

Of all reported rapes only a single digit number (I think it was 9%, I don't have the papers here) makes it to court and less than a third of those leads to a conviction, since it's usually a he-said-she-said thing with no real medical evidence of non-consent.

So if you go to the police with it, there's only approx. a 2.5% chance you'll get justice. That's a lower report/conviction rate than any other major felony.

 

[CharleyH]

I was looking into it, and it appears that there is a /wide/ gap with regard to rape statistics. Hardcore feminist groups are saying that only 2% of rape cases are false, some men's groups say its 41%... FBI says its about 25%.

From personal experience, of the five women I've interacted with closely who claimed rape at some point in their lives--I've had reason (and good reason) to doubt about four of them, three if I squint. None of those saw legal action, so I wonder if the statistics given take into account those that claim that it had happened in their history without any prosecution.

It seems like a dreafully common thing for young women to claim happened. Then again, it really /could/ have.

Its all very disappointing.

Stats are certainly something to be interpreted. I have heard that 95% of all the people you see talking on cell phones are calling themselves. I guess they aren't as important as I originally thought.

 

[Lisa Denton]

I was looking into it, and it appears that there is a /wide/ gap with regard to rape statistics. Hardcore feminist groups are saying that only 2% of rape cases are false, some men's groups say its 41%... FBI says its about 25%.

From personal experience, of the five women I've interacted with closely who claimed rape at some point in their lives--I've had reason (and good reason) to doubt about four of them, three if I squint. None of those saw legal action, so I wonder if the statistics given take into account those that claim that it had happened in their history without any prosecution.

It seems like a dreafully common thing for young women to claim happened. Then again, it really /could/ have.

Its all very disappointing.

Who is the hardcore feminist groups? Mothers Againt Drunk Driving.

Who is the men's groups? Playboy reader poll.

We all know the FBI would never lie, but (gasp) what if they did?

Perhaps four out of ten rapes are doubted by the police (with good reason) because the woman wasn't wearing underwear.

Perhaps another three out of that ten are doubted by the police (who squint) when they hear the woman had a drink before being raped.

Perhaps all seven out of ten realize nothing will be done to thier attacker, drop charges, and later come to realize that now, not only were they raped, but will be branded a liar by anyone who hears they were raped, but there was no prosecution.

Statistics can be misleading, assumptions can be arrogant.

Women who falsely report they were raped should be charged and prosecuted.

Women who truly report they were raped, and doubted, and dropped charges or police never followed leads or made an arrest or a case, and no one was ever prosecuted, should not all be lumped together in one statistic ... Liars.

 

[CharleyH]

Statistics can be misleading

They always are ... spinned.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Who is the hardcore feminist groups? Mothers Againt Drunk Driving.

Who is the men's groups? Playboy reader poll.

We all know the FBI would never lie, but (gasp) what if they did?

Perhaps four out of ten rapes are doubted by the police (with good reason) because the woman wasn't wearing underwear.

Perhaps another three out of that ten are doubted by the police (who squint) when they hear the woman had a drink before being raped.

Perhaps all seven out of ten realize nothing will be done to thier attacker, drop charges, and later come to realize that now, not only were they raped, but will be branded a liar by anyone who hears they were raped, but there was no prosecution.

Statistics can be misleading, assumptions can be arrogant.

Women who falsely report they were raped should be charged and prosecuted.

Women who truly report they were raped, and doubted, and dropped charges or police never followed leads or made an arrest or a case, and no one was ever prosecuted, should not all be lumped together in one statistic ... Liars.

But, that's the problem, isn't it? They shouldn't be lumped together--but there isn't really a better way to go about it. Unless we're to only believe the ones telling the truth and not the ones who aren't... but then, really, how are we to know?

Y'know, to this day, I hear someone talk about having rape in their history and my first reaction is "riiiiiight". Burned just too many times on those who were in the "liars" category--its flavored the whole word, for me.

I think that's probably one of the bigger dangers of the false ones getting press or face-time... it really is like the "cried wolf" example.

 

[CharleyH]

But, that's the problem, isn't it? They shouldn't be lumped together--but there isn't really a better way to go about it. Unless we're to only believe the ones telling the truth and not the ones who aren't... but then, really, how are we to know?

Y'know, to this day, I hear someone talk about having rape in their history and my first reaction is "riiiiiight". Burned just too many times on those who were in the "liars" category--its flavored the whole word, for me.

I think that's probably one of the bigger dangers of the false ones getting press or face-time... it really is like the "cried wolf" example.

In a way Joe, you (your persona has) have so little faith in truth that perhaps you should look into yourself for it first. You are a philosopher. What is truth?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

In a way Joe, you (your persona has) have so little faith in truth that perhaps you should look into yourself for it first. You are a philosopher. What is truth?

Truth, the body of real things, events, and facts in accordance with reality.

How is it that I have little faith in truth? I hold truth in the absolute /highest? regard, and generally end up at odds when demanding others adhere tightly to it.

 

[R. Richard]

Rape can be a life destroying experience for the victim. However, rapes often go unreported because there is no evidence except the word of the victim against that of the rapist. It is a sad situation, but there are things that make it worse.

In some cases, the rapist can "beat the charge" by marrying his victim. Such marriages should not, IMNTHO, be allowed as the victim is too stupid to enter into that sort of contract.

Some girls are not capable of consenting to vile, evil sex, so they let themselves be 'raped.' That set up a pattern where women are raped because 'it's all just a game.'

A girl gets pregnant and she and/or her mother decide that it is better for her to have been raped rather than admit that the girl is promiscuous and too dumb to use contraception. The situation up the rape statistics, but has nothing to do with rape.

Another problem is that the same charge is used for completely different crimes. I can understand the boyfriend who gets overly excited and continues past "Stop!" It is still a crime, but not a hard core crime.

I can understand the guy who has sex with a woman who is too drunk or stoned to be able to protest. It is a crime and a worse crime than the boyfriend above. However, you have to wonder how much damage he did to a woman who lets herself get that drunk in such a situation.

I can't understand the guy who grabs a woman off the street or breaks into her home and forces her to have sex. The guy is a criminal and should get a very stiff sentence to try to stop any further outrage.

I can understand a guy who drags a 12 year old girl into an alley and rapes her. He is just trying to commit suicide and I would be glad to help him do so in as painful a fashion as practical, if it were not for some rather ticky-tack, laws.

 

[Lisa Denton]

But, that's the problem, isn't it?

Y'know, to this day, I hear someone talk about having rape in their history and my first reaction is "riiiiiight".

Yes, and thats how the police feel, and thats why the statistic that only one of four rapes are reported is probably true, and why most women are raped by thier attacker, then again in court, and then again if they mention it to someone who has that attitude.

2%, 41%, 25%, those were widely ranges statistics from un-named dubious sources you refered to. Taking the highest number, more than half are true, and yet you say your first reaction is "riiiiiight" when a woman says she was raped.

I know you mean well Joe, and it sounds like you have really wondered about this, so look at it from the point of view of a woman who was truly raped.

If she mentions it, some peoples will think "lying slut."

You might want to find statistics on how many women who were raped, and thier attacker found guilty and prosecuted, how many of those women never mention it for fear of this sort of attitude.

 

[CharleyH]

Truth, the body of real things, events, and facts in accordance with reality.

I hold truth in the absolute /highest? regard, and generally end up at odds when demanding others adhere tightly to it.

As do I hold it in such a way. So which of us is telling it on a site that truly begs facade? What is truth?

 

[CharleyH]

Rape can be a life destroying experience for the victim. However, rapes often go unreported because there is no evidence except the word of the victim against that of the rapist. It is a sad situation, but there are things that make it worse.

In some cases, the rapist can "beat the charge" by marrying his victim. Such marriages should not, IMNTHO, be allowed as the victim is too stupid to enter into that sort of contract.

Some girls are not capable of consenting to vile, evil sex, so they let themselves be 'raped.' That set up a pattern where women are raped because 'it's all just a game.'

A girl gets pregnant and she and/or her mother decide that it is better for her to have been raped rather than admit that the girl is promiscuous and too dumb to use contraception. The situation up the rape statistics, but has nothing to do with rape.

Another problem is that the same charge is used for completely different crimes. I can understand the boyfriend who gets overly excited and continues past "Stop!" It is still a crime, but not a hard core crime.

I can understand the guy who has sex with a woman who is too drunk or stoned to be able to protest. It is a crime and a worse crime than the boyfriend above. However, you have to wonder how much damage he did to a woman who lets herself get that drunk in such a situation.

I can't understand the guy who grabs a woman off the street or breaks into her home and forces her to have sex. The guy is a criminal and should get a very stiff sentence to try to stop any further outrage.

I can understand a guy who drags a 12 year old girl into an alley and rapes her. He is just trying to commit suicide and I would be glad to help him do so in as painful a fashion as practical, if it were not for some rather ticky-tack, laws.

No offence RR, but that is pretty text book and not really real.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

As do I hold it in such a way. So which of us is telling it on a site that truly begs facade? What is truth?

Again, truth is the body of real things, events, and facts in accordance with reality.
As far as "site that truly begs facade"...


...


...I guess that's a flowery turn of phrase, but I don't really see how it has to do with my question or point.

 

[Liar]

You might want to find statistics on how many women who were raped, and thier attacker found guilty and prosecuted, how many of those women never mention it for fear of this sort of attitude.

Problem is, that second number is kind of hard to know. There are assesments. I mentioned one earlier, the only number I've seen adressing that: 2/3 of all rapes never get to the police in Scandinavia, according to survey. But I don't know how the question was wordere or who was asked, so the true number might differ.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

You might want to find statistics on how many women who were raped, and thier attacker found guilty and prosecuted, how many of those women never mention it for fear of this sort of attitude.

I'm not sure that would help me figure out an accurate take on truth and falsity claims. Not that it wouldn't be interesting information, but it's sort of beside the point, isn't it?

 

[CharleyH]

Again, truth is the body of real things, events, and facts in accordance with reality.
As far as "site that truly begs facade"...


...


...I guess that's a flowery turn of phrase, but I don't really see how it has to do with my question or point.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with rape. Come on, Joe.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Yeah, it has nothing to do with rape. Come on, Joe.

Oooo.k...

...good for you, I guess.

Was there a point here that I'm just not getting?

 

[CharleyH]

Oooo.k...

...good for you, I guess.

Was there a point here that I'm just not getting?

I see from your first post that you said:

"From personal experience, of the five women I've interacted with closely who claimed rape at some point in their lives--I've had reason (and good reason) to doubt about four of them, three if I squint. None of those saw legal action, so I wonder if the statistics given take into account those that claim that it had happened in their history without any prosecution"

I think this is not stated well. I believe it is stated wrongly, Joe.

As for the rest, I personally went off the topic because "truth" is an important thing to me, and I went wild on that post. It is for another thread topic, I am sure.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I see from your first post that you said:

"From personal experience, of the five women I've interacted with closely who claimed rape at some point in their lives--I've had reason (and good reason) to doubt about four of them, three if I squint. None of those saw legal action, so I wonder if the statistics given take into account those that claim that it had happened in their history without any prosecution"

I think this is not stated well. I believe it is stated wrongly, Joe.

I don't know that there are likely to be too many ways to state "there have been rape claims I doubt" well, but its far from stated "wrongly". That is a perfectly accurate representation of the events.

As for the rest, I personally went off the topic because "truth" is an important thing to me, and I went wild on that post. It is for another thread topic, I am sure.

M'k.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Without getting too far into it, I found this paper that seems to take a relatively unbiased look at a number of studies of the phenomena of false accusation. Besides looking at a number of studies, the organization is concerned with therapy for affected individuals, and so their conclusions reflect an attempt to sort out the different biases. Combined with statistics from this victims- support organization, which, in turn, uses mainly government sources, which seem to show improvement over time for true crime victims.

It's clearly a problem; however, there seem to be some fairly common themes, both in the false-accusations and the rape statistics themselves. These include:
*Knowing the attacker, real or false. The real instances are crimes of control and abuse; the false ones are instances of regret, vindictiveness, or greed. Or some combination of these.
*Shame on the part of the victim. She may have been too drunk, too manic, or another 'altered' state, in which she was either taken advantage of, or does not want to accept responsibility for her part in the incident. This is not to say the attacker is without blame in the incident, but that there is substantial grey area that is difficult to resolve, both legally and psychologically.
*The most consistent statistics in terms of their methodology over time show that false accusation of rape has been unchanged over time, even as other rape statistics have shown improvement.

What conclusions can we reasonably draw? First, that our own experiences with rape or its victims color our attitudes. We tend to think that all rape instances reflect those circumstances, when the reality is that the term 'rape' represents a broad range of situations. Second, that there is generally psychological trauma involved in either the false accusations (usually prior) or the true victimization (usually post-incident, or concurrent with it).

 

[BreeCarter]

Who is the hardcore feminist groups? Mothers Againt Drunk Driving.

Who is the men's groups? Playboy reader poll.

We all know the FBI would never lie, but (gasp) what if they did?

Perhaps four out of ten rapes are doubted by the police (with good reason) because the woman wasn't wearing underwear.

Perhaps another three out of that ten are doubted by the police (who squint) when they hear the woman had a drink before being raped.

Perhaps all seven out of ten realize nothing will be done to thier attacker, drop charges, and later come to realize that now, not only were they raped, but will be branded a liar by anyone who hears they were raped, but there was no prosecution.

Statistics can be misleading, assumptions can be arrogant.

Women who falsely report they were raped should be charged and prosecuted.

Women who truly report they were raped, and doubted, and dropped charges or police never followed leads or made an arrest or a case, and no one was ever prosecuted, should not all be lumped together in one statistic ... Liars.

+10! complete agree.

 

[CharleyH]

I don't know that there are likely to be too many ways to state "there have been rape claims I doubt" well, but its far from stated "wrongly". That is a perfectly accurate representation of the events.


M'k.

I think your argument is ... not sound, and I thought you had much more to say 'later on' in the thread, but I keep forgetting it is 10pm where you are and SO past my bedtime here, now (Meu Deus). I can't seem to get used to the time change, which means my mind is lazy. I just enjoy your speak, Joe, and bumping it once again because its the most intelligent thing here tonight.

Cheers and happy holidays.