Discussion: Approaches to Editing a Story

[KillerMuffin]

From both sides of the fence: editor and author.

When you edit for someone, how do you approach the story? What do you do first? Second? What are some of the things that you usually look for? Do you have a system or method that works well for you? How much input from the author on what s/he is looking for do you want? Is there anything that you can think of to add or ask?

When you send your story out to be edited, what do you expect from the editor? Do you know what you want the editor to do with the story before s/he gets it from you? How specific do you think you should be about what you're looking for in editing work? Do you have anything to add or ask?

 

[A7inchPhildo]

Not being a Lit. "editor" Every story I have gave my opinion on came by request of the author or posted to the forum board.

(1)I must decide if this is a topic I enjoy, dislike, or hate? Can I be objective on this story to better the writer as well as the reader, if not "STOP"
(2)I copy the story on Microsoft word, Open My note pad so I can record parts of the story without searching later and missing what I liked and did not like.
(3)I do not make much mention of spelling or grammer unless it becomes silly, or a word/phrase that is not a common source in the USA. Or even a word I do not recognize and can not find it.
My main concern is the fluid motion of the story. Did it lead me up a path then start a new path leaving me hanging?
Do all the characters told facts match through the story?
Does the story remain a constant with its facts?
The person telling the story "I", "Me", "Narrator"... stay consistant? Unless otherwise noted two people are giving point of view on the story.
Do the paragraphs line up chronologicaly?
Is there a dead horse beaten with one too many hits?

(4)Was I entertained?
Was I annoyed?
Would I be better to appologize this is not a story for me?
Would I read a follow up if so why?

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

My own stories need all the help they can get so I want to know what could improve them.
Spelling mistakes is a area of ignorance in my own proof reading and spell check. (I do not spell check forum posts.LOL)
Grammer can be avoided depending on the context, this is an erotic story some rules do not apply. The basics should be known if you are 18.
Mainly I need another mind to tell me if I left out any important facts. I know the story too well and every time I read it my mind will absorb the missing areas and fill them in.
I need a open-minded person to say Wow I like it your mind is fucked up. Some of my ideas are past the point of being erotic and I need to hear that too
Nothing works better than "this story for lack of a better term was lousy". "Post me a 1 and reply to me why" I will search and search till it is a "7" next time. I know some requests are unreasonable. So am I!
I do not want the editor to write the story. Throw out general ideas nothing specific.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Last thought my editor knows this is for fun and if I am not having fun then I will stop alltogether. I do not get compensated $$ so my compensation is criticism by others. I always hope what I share with another might help them too! Personal opinions aside.

 

[Docgtvt]

what is an editor for

I find Myself agreeing with phildo on those points. The first thing i do, is read the story, making mental notes on points of contention. secondly, I correct spelling errors, as those tend to irk me most. thirdly I tend to the grammatical, fourthly, and possibly the most important, continuity. If names keep getting changed, it not only throws off the flow of the story, but tends to confuse and turn off the readers.
Just my two cents worth,
Doc




"Shadows are falling and I'm running out of breath,
Keep me in your heart for awhile.

If I leave you it doesn't mean I love you any less,
Keep me in your heart for awhile.

When you get up in the morning and you see that crazy sun,
Keep me in your heart for awhile.

There's a train leaving nightly called when all is said and done,
Keep me in your heart for awhile."
warren zevon

 

[Weird Harold]

When you edit for someone, how do you approach the story? What do you do first? Second? What are some of the things that you usually look for? Do you have a system or method that works well for you?

The first thing I do as an editor is reset MS Word's Spelling and Grammar Check and run it on the story to obtain the readability statistics. The readability statistics give me an idea of how complex and difficult the story will be to edit as well as identifying a couple of potential problems to look for -- excessive passive voice and long sentences.

While running the initial spelling and grammar check, each fault gives me a random sampling of the story that is out of context. I find that the out-of-context sampling makes spotting problems easier, because I don't get involved in the story and overlook them.

Once the initial spelling and grammar check is done, I read the story and correct as I go, using the Reviewing Tools in MS Word to make comments and notes.

Unless I'm specifically asked for something less than a full edit, I edit for spelling, grammar, story continuity, and story content. Except for spelling, I only make suggestions and ask questions. I try very hard to insure that the client can totally reject any or all of the changes I make.

[/QUOTE] When you send your story out to be edited, what do you expect from the editor? [/QUOTE]

I expect anyone editing my stories to imagine the vilest, most despicable and nit-picking critic thay can and then try to be even worse. I prefer anal-rentive English majors with a grudge against me as editors.

 

[A7inchPhildo]

I was doing a different research and came upon this website
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/ in the search box if you type in "Editing". They have a rather excellent method of editing writeings other than we can use spell check they are not useing a computer. I like some ideas that I do not currently use. Much of the information I found was great on the rest of this site too. All is free even personal inquires.

Phil

 

[Jan_Comenius]

prefer as?

I would argue here that "I prefer anal-rentive English majors with a grudge against me as editors" might have been better phrased as: "I prefer anal-retentive-English-major editors TO any other kind."

I also take issue with "nit-picking" (I accept the back-formation "nitpicking" as a better and clearer alternative to the staid hyphenated version as it carried the additional connotation of "nit" as "nitwit."

In addition, although it's rather British, I would prefer "ensure" to "insure" in this sense. It does an excellent job of removing the inevitable mental picture that the word "insurance" conjures up, one of a smarmy hustler in a polyester suit knocking on doors in the projects and selling the possibility of a decent funeral.

--------------------------------

My own nastiness comes out far more in content comments than grammatical lapses. Although I cringe when I see something in print like: "I could of been a great lover..." I feel far too embarrassed to say something to the writer and just change it sans comment. Major content gaffes, on the other hand, indicate sloppiness of thought and a selfish willingness to waste the reader's time.

The really twisted grammar sticklers out there, I've noticed, inevitably studied something like physics or economics in school. Top English majors inevitably have the kind of forgiving attitude about this sort of thing that comes from a string of long, painful experiences.

My worst one to date came at the age of 21. I had won the department prize for literary studies and was granted the honor of having lunch with the former English department chair, to whom the award was dedicated.

Imagine the most sinister old man in a threadbare suit that you can picture, doing his best to elicit inane comments from me that he could hear over the noise of his malfunctioning hearing aid. I felt like he was checking me out for a date with his grand-daughter for a while there. One question followed another as he crammed his face full of a sickly green salad liberally covered by a slimy ooze that make me suspect that Peter North himself had a very special position back in the kitchen. Every time I said something he couldn't hear he screamed out, "Hah...HAH!?" in the middle of the crowded university cafeteria. There were beautiful women there laughing at us. They may have even thought I was related to him.

The old bastard finally asked me my opinion about school, and I replied quietly and unoffensively, "Well, college is very different than anything else I've ever done."

I can remember those black eyes spark with hatred across the table as he rapped me sharply on the knee under the table. "Different FROM, young man!" he rasped, leaning in closely so I could get a full whiff of denture stank. I actually heard his hearing aid squealing angrily.

Finally, after an eternity of three or so seconds, the old professor leaned back, all the while staring me down with a look that just screamed out, "What is an illiterate like you doing with MY award?" I stared meekly at my cheeseburger and prayed he wouldn't make me sit in the corner with a dunce cap. Finally, he sighed and returned the dregs of his salad with gusto...

Say, Weird Harold, you ever do any teachin'?

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: prefer as?

"I could of been a great lover..." I feel far too embarrassed to say something to the writer and just change it sans comment.
...

Say, Weird Harold, you ever do any teachin'?

My normal comment when changing something like your example is, "Idiomatic usage changed." or something similar. I've found that some authors intentionally use idiomatic or deliberately incorrect grammar to give a certain feel to their narrator.

As far as teaching, I hven't done any Teaching since ninth grade when my pal and I were tossed out of Geometry Class for playing chess instead of attention.

The Teacher made us a deal -- we could play all the chess we wanted that period, but I had to teach him geometry. We'd have three tests (for our two nine weeks grades and our semester grade.) If my pal didn't pass, neither of us passed.

Since then, I've done a lot of tutoring and training, but no Teaching.

 

[snooper]

Re: prefer as?

... Although I cringe when I see something in print like: "I could of been a great lover..." I feel far too embarrassed to say something to the writer and just change it sans comment ...

I wouldn't change anything without some explanation. I might give a general comment explanation such as "I tidied up the punctuation" if there are a lot of changes, but normally I comment every change (except spacing).

 

[Jan_Comenius]

different approaches

Well, it comes from working in the ESL field, I guess. I spend about six hours a week going over compositions written by foreigners. If I commented on every correction on those comps beyond the basic marking system I use, writing out my explanations could take hours and would rob the student of valuable self-correction opportunities. I turn all the text to blue and make my corrections in red in on-line ESL comps. It's embarrassing for me to unlock my word-hoard and start explaining exactly WHY the grammar is f----- to another native speaker, and it's usually a typo in any case or something the writer has overlooked (as I am prone to do on a regular basis).

I could quote Burchfield to the writers I work with, but in the example that I gave (could of) the following explanation is given in MEU3 (Revised).

"of" for "have, 've." In the spoken language the auxiliary verb 'have' when unstressed (in such phrases as 'could have, might have, would have') is normally pronouced /(IPA schwa)v/ and so, often, is "of." It needed only the keen ears of children and of other partially educated people, to misintepret /(IPA schwa) v/="have" as being "really" one of the ways of saying "of." The erroneous use (first recorded in 1837) is found in all English-speaking countries. Typical examples (in each of which the speech represented is that of a child or of a poorly educated adult)...

(puntuation changed to conform to US MLA style)


It's insulting. Your average Literotica writer looking for editing help from those of us who have hung our shingle out here at this site is NOT a professional writer. They may be writing a story for their wife/husband, or relating something from their past. This may be the first time they have gotten up the courage to submit a story for publication. What should we do? Turn up our noses and call them barbarous wretches if they use "transpire" to mean "occur"? What do we do if they use the expression "THE hoi polloi" in ignorance of the fact that "hoi" is the plural definite article in ancient Greek? For the love of Pete, the best guess scholars have as to the original pronunciation of that word is a treatise by Erasmus, written two millenia after the Roman conquest of Attica.

Maybe a Literotica writer fixes electronics gadgets (I used to do it) nine hours a day and doesn't have a great deal of time or money to spend on a non-technical university education. Quite honestly, if I could go back, I'd think seriously about becoming a carpenter or a mason. They're honest, decent professions with real opportunities to help society and make something. I'd do my work and look upon reading and writing as a simple hobby.

With these considerations in mind, I think its reasonable to just change the nasty mistakes and go on, much like my mother's old friend, who, when I was thirteen, neutrally asked me not to look through her underwear when I once had to spend some time in her bedroom. No huffing and puffing, no insults, just a simple request by a social worker with thirty years on the job.

If the writer seems to be making an attempt to reproduce spoken dialect, I'd fix inconsistencies and comment on the "mistakes" (I've found Word's split window option to be very effective when writing end-notes). All corrections and comments, in any case, go in red, so the writer knows what was changed. Some of my favorite stories are dialect-written, most notably "Thrawn Janet" by R. L. Stevenson.

I think this issue is all about whether or not the question of whether English should degenerate into a patois is important to you or not. Personally, I don't give a damn. I'm an American and, what's worse, an infant immigrant. I watched my father get the shaft for years in his job and in everyday communication because he couldn't get his point across effectively. That's far more important to me as a writer, editor and teacher than any considerations of the mystical dignity of the English tongue.

 

[hiddenself]

Re: different approaches

It's insulting. Your average Literotica writer looking for editing help from those of us who have hung our shingle out here at this site is NOT a professional writer. They may be writing a story for their wife/husband, or relating something from their past. This may be the first time they have gotten up the courage to submit a story for publication. What should we do? Turn up our noses and call them barbarous wretches if they use "transpire" to mean "occur"?

Your whole post is crap IMO.

If one wants to write for his/her significant other alone, he/she can do that at home. This is a public forum. Furthermore, "lit" implies some kind of "literary" value ("erotica" too, for that matter, in contrast to "smut" or "porn"). A piece that lacks basic grammar, syntax, spelling, or similar things is not good writing. So, if someone posts a story here (and most of these posters seem to think that their piece is at least Pulitzer Prize quality, if not Nobel Prize), an editor has the right and responsibility to perform a reality check.

Originally posted by Jan_Comenius
What do we do if they use the expression "THE hoi polloi" in ignorance of the fact that "hoi" is the plural definite article in ancient Greek? For the love of Pete, the best guess scholars have as to the original pronunciation of that word is a treatise by Erasmus, written two millenia after the Roman conquest of Attica.

How is this relevant? Ancient Greek is a dead language, but English is definitely not. And writing "might of" instead of "might have" out of ignorance is bad English no matter how you slice it. It is justified in dialogue, however, when one wants to convey a peculiarity of speech patterns of a certain protag -- if indeed that's consistent with the protag's whole character in the story.

It is this kind of "enlightened" PC attitude about teaching language skills (and other things too, by the way) that has led to a whole generation of kids in the US not being able to string a simple sentence together.

Originally posted by Jan_Comenius
I think this issue is all about whether or not the question of whether English should degenerate into a patois is important to you or not. Personally, I don't give a damn. I'm an American and, what's worse, an infant immigrant. I watched my father get the shaft for years in his job and in everyday communication because he couldn't get his point across effectively. That's far more important to me as a writer, editor and teacher than any considerations of the mystical dignity of the English tongue.

I suppose that's why Americans are one of the worst educated citizens in the western developed world. Getting the point across, results, and devil take all seems to be the motto. But how you get the point across is equally (and often even more) important. Yes, language is an always evolving entity. But that is no excuse for justifying sloppiness, laziness, and plain incorrect use of language tools, which your attitude seems to lead to.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

From a writer's point of view I lean towards hiddenself's position. If I were not worried about my work being full of gramatical errors, ambiguus descriptions and other no-no's why would I go to an editor in the first place?

To be fair, I have a recurring dream of hiddenself tearing one of my babies to shreds that I wake screaming from In all honesty his critique's are exactly what I would want if I had the confidence to submit my work for editing. They are brutal, but in that brutality you can see he is honestly trying to help. Pointing out flaws in an authors grammar, syntax, approach and charictarization is the kindest thing you can do as an editor. Anything you gloss over or let go is something I won't know to look for in my next effort and is something I probably won't change. Without knowing I am commiting an error I am very unlikely to improve myself as an author.

Editing and critiqueing require a basic honesty, that is assumed by the writer and editor. If I cannot take you bluntly telling me "this is wrong" or "this needs work" then I am not really looking to improve, I am just looking for praise. For myself when I ask for someone's opinion of my work I want honesty, even if its not what I wanted to hear. That said, I am positive that I am not ready to submit my work because I am not ready to have my ego bruised. Since I can't enter into the relationship with the impled honesty that is required I don't.

I think anyone who is angered by an honest critique of thier work did not go in with the requisite honesty that submiting a work imples. If I ever reach a point where I feel that I can enter such a relationship I would hope the editor enters with the intellectual honesty that is implied by his being an editor.

-Colly

 

[Weird Harold]

Editing and critiqueing require a basic honesty, that is assumed by the writer and editor. If I cannot take you bluntly telling me "this is wrong" or "this needs work" then I am not really looking to improve, I am just looking for praise. For myself when I ask for someone's opinion of my work I want honesty, even if its not what I wanted to hear. That said, I am positive that I am not ready to submit my work because I am not ready to have my ego bruised. Since I can't enter into the relationship with the impled honesty that is required I don't.

I think all of the best editors have something called "Tact."

It is possible to find and correct errors without completely crushing the author's ego.

In a management class, many years ago, I learned that "Warm Fuzzies" are as important as "brickbats" when critiquing performance. A good editor should point out what an author does well in addition to what is wrong with a story.

 

[snooper]

It is possible to find and correct errors without completely crushing the author's ego.

Use the "shit sandwich".

I like your story. It would be better if you could spell, write gramatically and had some technical knowledge of sex. I thought you showed a really vivid imagination.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I think all of the best editors have something called "Tact."

It is possible to find and correct errors without completely crushing the author's ego.

In a management class, many years ago, I learned that "Warm Fuzzies" are as important as "brickbats" when critiquing performance. A good editor should point out what an author does well in addition to what is wrong with a story.

Tact and simple courtesy always have their place. The problem I see here is that many authors cannot separate thier works from themselves. I don't know how much of it you in the VE program see, but in the story feedback forum I have seen several people get hurt, upset or even down right nasty when a critique of their work was unflattering.

While you as an editor must try not to cast things in too dark a light, I feel we as authors should wear our hearts on our sleeves less obviously when asking for editing or feedback. At the basic level your responsibility as an editor is to help us get better, not to stroke our egos. I think authors should accept that that means you will have more to say that is negative than positive. If you see I have done something well, noting it is nice, but by and large you are going to try and show me places where I can improve upon what I have done.

-Colly

 

[A7inchPhildo]

I agree you learn from the "BRICKBATS" so to speak. That is the part no one wants to hear. That is why I like the feed back too.

However at lit most authors are trying to get a point across and not so involved in what are my mistakes so I can publish a book. The "WARMFUZZIES" is an encouragement to the novice writer and needed to ensure them. They are good at this and with a little guidence more people can appreciate what they are saying.

If many years ago. When I first wrote my first mess of a story, you or a few others here chewed it apart and left me swinging. I would never have posted another.

I thought it was the best story ever. I was so aroused at shareing my adventures with others I did not consider my style of writeing sucked. It was attrocious and today I would rip it appart too. My spelling and word use still suffers greatly.

My point is that yes to a seasoned author pull it appart that should be what they wanted. If not too bad, they will get over it.

Simply take the time to recognize a novice. Rip them appart and most likely we just lost another author. If I do not know then I treat them as a novice too. They will inquire if they wanted more.

I could quote Burchfield to the writers I work with, but in the example that I gave (could of) the following explanation is given in MEU3 (Revised).

"of" for "have, 've." In the spoken language the auxiliary verb 'have' when unstressed (in such phrases as 'could have, might have, would have') is normally pronouced /(IPA schwa)v/ and so, often, is "of." It needed only the keen ears of children and of other partially educated people, to misintepret /(IPA schwa) v/="have" as being "really" one of the ways of saying "of." The erroneous use (first recorded in 1837) is found in all English-speaking countries. Typical examples (in each of which the speech represented is that of a child or of a poorly educated adult)...

(puntuation changed to conform to US MLA style)

You see to even me this is a bit more than I want to know at this point in my writeings. I am not up to those standards so should I not write stories as I learn? If I am learning how to group good thoughts and making my story flow properly is it really a necesity to slam me hard for a improper use of a word? Somtimes yes.

I am looking for my editor to say yes the story is readable.
I am looking for my editor to say NO, people will not enjoy the story as much and this is why?

I may have missed something when I walked through the gates of litt., but my impression is the majority of the authors are novice, that they do not get paid, that this is for enjoyment, and all types were welcome.

Dr_M posted a comment about letting us know what you are looking for in feed back. I'm sure you remeber. The same applies to you. If you so desire a strait just give me the bad points I can improve upon then ask. I sincerly think most authors here are not at a level they can understand what was not commented on is considered good.

I appologize if any of this comes off as not being said in a nice tone. I like you all and respect your post.

Phil

 

[Weird Harold]

I sincerly think most authors here are not at a level they can understand what was not commented on is considered good.

I'm not sure that this comment is correct.

I've had several clients who were certain that their story was bad when they asked for editing and, IMHO, take a no comment as, "this isn't even worth correcting." Especially if what was changed isn't clearly marked and explained.

I always try to explain why I think a change is necessary. I'm fond of quoting Purdue University's Online Writing Lab about passive voice -- "... overuse of passive voice throughout an essay can make your prose seem flat and uninteresting" -- when highlighting and/or changing passive voice sentences.

 

[A7inchPhildo]

Weird Harold,
I was refering to the hundreds of amature writers who post at lit yet might not post in the forums. "I think you knew that."

My concern is still the stories at lit not the professional. The Pro. writer does not seem to be the majority posting on this site.

Since 10-03-03, 7 days 505 new stories have been posted. That is ruffly 2,000 a month give or take.
1How many of them avoided the editors?
2How many did not know about the editors?
3How many of them used an editor?
4How many of those could have used an editor for more than one reason?
5How many, if they used a harsh method editor would never ever write a story to post here again?
6How many do you think have used an editor in the past and now wont?
7How many do you think post a story for personal kicks and not proper form?

 

[snooper]

1How many of them avoided the editors?
2How many did not know about the editors?
3How many of them used an editor?
4How many of those could have used an editor for more than one reason?
5How many, if they used a harsh method editor would never ever write a story to post here again?
6How many do you think have used an editor in the past and now wont?
7How many do you think post a story for personal kicks and not proper form?

1 A few,
2 Most,
3 A few,
4 Most,
5 A few,
6 A few,
7 Most.

A much more important question is, how many of those stories would have been read beyond a) the title, b) the one-line description, c) the first paragraph, by someone trawling Lit looking for authors to commission to write for a magazine which pays the authors?

 

[A7inchPhildo]

1 A few,
2 Most,
3 A few,
4 Most,
5 A few,
6 A few,
7 Most.

A much more important question is, how many of those stories would have been read beyond a) the title, b) the one-line description, c) the first paragraph, by someone trawling Lit looking for authors to commission to write for a magazine which pays the authors?

I can only answer fo my self snooper, but I am not looking for a paying job in writeing. I want to improve my writeing for myself as I am sure most anyone would? Do you feel the majority of people who write want thier story edited as described above? That is how that list of questions came about?

I did not know the majority of lit writers are posting in hopes of someone trawling Lit looking for authors to commission to write for a magazine which pays the authors. So then it is a good idea to slam every writer who has a story edited here as if they were professionals. Well, at least that way we will know if they are serious about writing. Screw the Guy/Girl who just wanted to make the story better and was not up to the standards to understand.

It just sucks to know that my editor has compassion to encourage. Yikes or I would have been gone long ago!

I submit, "white flag is drawn". I hit the horse 950 times with my stick and it is still dead after the first blow. No more argument fom this humbled writer.

Anyone know what odd number we are up to in the playground?

 

[Jan_Comenius]

Re: Re: different approaches

I suppose that's why Americans are one of the worst educated citizens in the western developed world. Getting the point across, results, and devil take all seems to be the motto. But how you get the point across is equally (and often even more) important. Yes, language is an always evolving entity. But that is no excuse for justifying sloppiness, laziness, and plain incorrect use of language tools, which your attitude seems to lead to.

"Citizens" is a count noun in the plural, as is "Americans."

Try "some of the most poorly-educated citizens in the Western developed world" and you might approach more closely to the chimera of an English grammatical usage free of: "sloppiness, laziness, and [sic] plain [sic] incorrect use of language tools." After you get done with that, please note that your three mottoes require a plural verb, and I'm sure that you would agree that in something this bombastic the preposition in the final clause really ought to come before the relative pronoun and not at the end of the sentence (my general preference for hyphenating compound participle adjectives in attributive position is an issue of stylistic consistency and thus not wholly appropriate to the discussion at hand (but should, at least, be mentioned as a reliable way to discriminate between the cognoscenti and les poseurs).

I hope I've managed to get the point across in my poorly-educated American way, even though hoi polloi will always have some members who, languishing in a state of profound bumptiousness, lack the wit to understand it.

As a final note, kudos to Phildo for managing to perform the reality check that would have appended this message otherwise.

 

[snooper]

... I did not know the majority of lit writers are posting in hopes of someone trawling Lit looking for authors to commission to write for a magazine which pays the authors. ...

SOrry, I didn't make myself clear enough. What I meant was that most stories are so badly written (spelling, grammar, construction, etc.) that it matters not how original, interesting, etc. the story is, it is too badly told to hold the interest of a discerning reader.

 

[A7inchPhildo]

SOrry, I didn't make myself clear enough. What I meant was that most stories are so badly written (spelling, grammar, construction, etc.) that it matters not how original, interesting, etc. the story is, it is too badly told to hold the interest of a discerning reader.

Snooper this Phildo is water-proof, Like a duck it all just runs off and never a feather ruffled. Battery operated Phildos are meant to be used and abused. The main purpose for a Phildo is to provide pleasure for all. This is why above you will notice a Quote:

Last thought my editor knows this is for fun and if I am not having fun then I will stop alltogether. I do not get compensated $$ so my compensation is criticism by others. I always hope what I share with another might help them too! Personal opinions aside.

And; some place I posted I would like it to be mandatory to have the stamp of approval from at least one editor before stories are submitted to Manu. (pet peves in EF I think)

Like an over reacting monkey I bite hard, then think that was not my intentions to sound like that. (as I click "Submit Reply") I chuckle and get some new batteries, "HhmmmMMMMmmmMMMMmmmMMMMmmm......"

 

[fifty5]

Re: Re: different approaches

But that is no excuse for justifying sloppiness, laziness, and plain incorrect use of language tools, which your attitude seems to lead to.

That's right, init?

For the benefit of US readers, "init?" is current street usage (requesting agreement) in Leeds (and probably many other multi-ethnic parts of the UK).

Surely the significant criterion is internal consistency? If either the vocabulary of the narator, or of a particular character, needs some agramatical construct, then that's perfectly OK, but if it's simply a slip in the writing, then it's helpful editing feedback to point out that the expression isn't gramatically correct.

Basically, if "bad" grammar (or "poor" style) is deliberate - and well used - then that should get license, but if it's accidental - or badly done - then editorial input that points out such flaws is helpful.

Use of the vernacular is entirely valid, but help with mistakes is valuable.

IMHO

f5

 

[Angeline]

I'm not a Lit editor, but I have been a professional editor for about 15 years, editing in virtually every medium--print, electronic, multimedia, you name it.

I agree with Harold--tact is very important. Most authors have much of themself invested in the writing, and what is gained by taking out one's own irritation on someone's ignorance? Negative reinforcement is notoriously ineffective at getting people to do what you want.

I also try very hard not to make assumptions. I'll correct what appears to be a faulty idiomatic usage, but also query if it appears that the author may really be failing at carrying off dialect, for example. Sometimes the problem is something different from what one might immediately assume.

Anyway when I agree to take an editing job, I talk to the author and we set the specifications for it. This helps me figure out about how long it will take and enables me to quote an estimate for the job. It also tells the author what to expect.

Editing fiction adds dimensions to a job--I like to ask about audience, tone, time, and so on. I have no intention of rewriting a story (and if I think it needs a major rewrite after skimming it, I send it back), but I don't want to spend alot of time agonizing over something because I missed the author's point or intent.

Once it's all resolved, I follow the Harold model--edit out egregious grammar and spelling stuff first, then a very careful read for the following--

1. Clarity (within the context of tone, but it does need to communicate)

2. Consistency (if Johnny has blue eyes at word post 50 and green eyes at word post 500, he better be a) wearing contacts, b) a space alien with eye-changing powers, or c) some such semi-reasonable explanation)

3. Cohesion (lol, I'm not trying to be alliterative, but the story should hang together overall--nothing that appears illogical or unbelievable within its intended context)

Having said that, my philosophy is don't suggest changes unless they are necessary and improve the story--different does not mean better. I also do an editor's query sheet so I can explain suggested changes the author might not understand.

Hope this helps!

Angeline

 

[Weird Harold]

Anyway when I agree to take an editing job, I talk to the author and we set the specifications for it. This helps me figure out about how long it will take and enables me to quote an estimate for the job. It also tells the author what to expect.

I think you've hit upon a key difference in editing for professionals and editing for amateurs -- many of the authors here at Lit have no idea what they want or need from an editor.

I think most first-time clients who go to the Volunteer Editors expect a simple proof-reading, rather than a full critique and commentary, and don't really know to ask for more and/or give clear explanations of what they want.

That's why I make an effort to ensure that my clients can follow and undo anything and everything I do to their story easily. If they disgree with my comments or changes I make sure that they can simply click on "reject all changes" to get their masterpiece back to what they started with..