discrimination and harassment,
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DesEsseintes
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Discrimination is a good thing - from discrimen, and meaning a mature adult's ability to judge and compare. Because of the (mis) use of this word exclusively to mean something bad we scarcely dare pronounce one thing to be better than another - it is elitist, or racist, etc, to make such judgements. Therein lie many of our current problems. But I digress.
But I am well aware that sexual harassment happens all too often and that, as a white heterosexual male, I am unlikely to be its target. I intended no slight or slur against the original post.
AnnaChristie
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The thing with harassment is that it can often be so subtly perpetrated as to be invisible to all except the victim and the harasser.
Discrimination has happened to me, although it wasn't exactly harrowing.
I imagine it's mild in comparison to some experiences. In fact, it was a little bizarre.
Many moons ago, I was told that I was 'too posh and tall' for a certain job.
I do know that's not on a level with Rosa Parks- but people can still be awful.
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CandiCame
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I'm white passing. And male. The best kind of white. So I get microagressions, but not really discrimination. On that stuff.
Obviously, living in the Bible Belt I deal with homophobia; to the point that I'm still in the closet because it could affect my safety and the safety of my loved ones. You can still be fired for the gay in Kentucky; kicked out of businesses, etc. And it's perfectly legal. Then we have the illegal, 'rape, murder, and receive no punishment' pasttime that doesn't seem to really... occur any less due to it's illegality.
Obviously, living in the Bible Belt I deal with homophobia; to the point that I'm still in the closet because it could affect my safety and the safety of my loved ones. You can still be fired for the gay in Kentucky; kicked out of businesses, etc. And it's perfectly legal. Then we have the illegal, 'rape, murder, and receive no punishment' pasttime that doesn't seem to really... occur any less due to it's illegality.
Que
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As a WASP it is not possible to discriminate against me. Just ask ZUMI about my "privelege."
I can document for a fact that at no time have I been promoted over a woman, a gay man or a minority of any shade.
For the most part I don't like being in charge. I like setting up processes, designing systems, working in the background on efficiencies, so I did not feel discriminated against. I do not campaign for nor seek promotion. When I worked for myself My workers were women and minorities and I paid them while my mortgage went in arrears.
I think it is interesting when I hear people discussing their feelings of discrimination in the workplace. Usually women.
I was hired into a mostly male occupation in a mostly male shop that had just reached the tipping point with about parity male-to-female. The firm was an early leader in actively becoming a well respected place to work in the gay community. They offered partner benefits very early. This was a boon, especially in those early, scary days of the AIDS panic. I lost one co-worker to AIDS and his partner was HIV positive and doing well with the then-new cocktail of drugs.
So. The company had made a real effort to move women into supervisory positions. They also worked hard at promoting gays and minorities. When I started there was about 50/50 male to females at supervisor, maybe 25 percent of the male supervisors were gay, 25% of the males were black or Hispanic.
5 years later there were 2 straight white male supervisors out of about 25. There were 3 gay male supervisors, one black male one Hispanic. There were 18 women supervisors. I overheard a conversation when the next level up pushed out a male for a woman "Finally! we can get things done right around here with a woman in charge." keep in mind her predecessor was the guy that caused the "fairness" shown above.
When I had been there a little over a year my cubby-buddy in cubical hell was Lynette. We got along well talked of family and kids and what not. One day she gave that exasperated sigh...I inquired. She was upset because she was STILL not a supervisor even though she had been there 8 whole months. Never mind I had twce her tenure and had come from the industry with years of experience and she had come with none.
"Oh? Have you been posting?" Like I said I wasn't at first insulted because I had no interest in management. My numbers were far better than hers and some months the best on the floor of about 1000 people.
She explained that when hired she was told explicitly the department was looking to promote women and minorities and since she was black she could expect to move up within six months. I'm sure she felt my white privilege meant that fairness dictate she leapfrog over both myself and every other male and white person in the place.
The 77 cents on the dollar myth is destructive. Companies should be looking for talent, not color, gender, orientation and quotas. I think Lynette would have made a good supervisor..probably eventually was. Lots of people have the right temperament, but to offer to discriminate in favor of someone is morally wrong and demeaning to those that do get promoted. I don't know what happened to lynette. I was eventually fired by a small group of women led by a woman who was hired three years after me. She thought I was not properly deferential to her "position" and wrong headed advice.
The company's numbers went down by 10 million dollars a month in that department alone versus the performance 5 years previous. That works out to a cost of a loss of about $1000 per month per employee. $12,000 per year or roughly half of what the salary was at the time. They got a lot of nice write-ups in women and gay publications about their quest to become a great place to work. Maybe that made it all worth it.
Any woman in this day and age claiming she was discriminated against is full of it. In the US the EEOC will litigate on your behalf, or an employment attorney will be delighted to take your case. You will at a minimum achieve a nice settlement fixing the problem and getting your job secured up to a nice amount of money for actual discrimination.
I can document for a fact that at no time have I been promoted over a woman, a gay man or a minority of any shade.
For the most part I don't like being in charge. I like setting up processes, designing systems, working in the background on efficiencies, so I did not feel discriminated against. I do not campaign for nor seek promotion. When I worked for myself My workers were women and minorities and I paid them while my mortgage went in arrears.
I think it is interesting when I hear people discussing their feelings of discrimination in the workplace. Usually women.
I was hired into a mostly male occupation in a mostly male shop that had just reached the tipping point with about parity male-to-female. The firm was an early leader in actively becoming a well respected place to work in the gay community. They offered partner benefits very early. This was a boon, especially in those early, scary days of the AIDS panic. I lost one co-worker to AIDS and his partner was HIV positive and doing well with the then-new cocktail of drugs.
So. The company had made a real effort to move women into supervisory positions. They also worked hard at promoting gays and minorities. When I started there was about 50/50 male to females at supervisor, maybe 25 percent of the male supervisors were gay, 25% of the males were black or Hispanic.
5 years later there were 2 straight white male supervisors out of about 25. There were 3 gay male supervisors, one black male one Hispanic. There were 18 women supervisors. I overheard a conversation when the next level up pushed out a male for a woman "Finally! we can get things done right around here with a woman in charge." keep in mind her predecessor was the guy that caused the "fairness" shown above.
When I had been there a little over a year my cubby-buddy in cubical hell was Lynette. We got along well talked of family and kids and what not. One day she gave that exasperated sigh...I inquired. She was upset because she was STILL not a supervisor even though she had been there 8 whole months. Never mind I had twce her tenure and had come from the industry with years of experience and she had come with none.
"Oh? Have you been posting?" Like I said I wasn't at first insulted because I had no interest in management. My numbers were far better than hers and some months the best on the floor of about 1000 people.
She explained that when hired she was told explicitly the department was looking to promote women and minorities and since she was black she could expect to move up within six months. I'm sure she felt my white privilege meant that fairness dictate she leapfrog over both myself and every other male and white person in the place.
The 77 cents on the dollar myth is destructive. Companies should be looking for talent, not color, gender, orientation and quotas. I think Lynette would have made a good supervisor..probably eventually was. Lots of people have the right temperament, but to offer to discriminate in favor of someone is morally wrong and demeaning to those that do get promoted. I don't know what happened to lynette. I was eventually fired by a small group of women led by a woman who was hired three years after me. She thought I was not properly deferential to her "position" and wrong headed advice.
The company's numbers went down by 10 million dollars a month in that department alone versus the performance 5 years previous. That works out to a cost of a loss of about $1000 per month per employee. $12,000 per year or roughly half of what the salary was at the time. They got a lot of nice write-ups in women and gay publications about their quest to become a great place to work. Maybe that made it all worth it.
Any woman in this day and age claiming she was discriminated against is full of it. In the US the EEOC will litigate on your behalf, or an employment attorney will be delighted to take your case. You will at a minimum achieve a nice settlement fixing the problem and getting your job secured up to a nice amount of money for actual discrimination.
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Busybody
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DesEsseintes
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<Squeals excitedly.> Oh, do me, Mr Slippers, do me! What are my character flaws? Discern them from afar, I beg of you!
Busybody
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beats me
but ole Candi Came (and gone) is a paranoid loon.....always bitching and moaning....No one gives a fuck who he fucks or how he dresses.....
Busybody
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dolf
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the uk gov just changed the rules so that women have to pay upfront to file a complaint.
here there's the added factor of class. so you can be a white male and extremely talented, but if you don't have the right accent you'll be at a disadvantage, and you really need the right old school tie to get to the top.
I don't have experience of the US job market, but to judge the whole by your experiences in one company seems... flawed. edit: I would say the same to a woman/gay/black/green poster who did the same.
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AnnaChristie
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I agree with you dolf, 100%. As regards the males. It's often a different story for women with the above- I know this. It's also evinced by the make up of David Camorons's ( sic) cabinet ( of horrors).
J
JudasIscariot
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Yes.
After 9/11 I started to get abuse by anyone who had had a drink. I couldn't even get close to taking to some women at a bar etc.
Then after the one in London I began to be pulled over by police 3x per week minimum. The excuse they used was I was driving a black car. I was forced to go to police stations all the time to show a 'producer'.
Even today people shout stuff at me all the time like terrorist and the like. Ignorant part is that I'm not even part of that 'race' if that's what you want to call it.
So essentially since 2001, my stock nosedived because I'm not blonde with blue eyes.
After 9/11 I started to get abuse by anyone who had had a drink. I couldn't even get close to taking to some women at a bar etc.
Then after the one in London I began to be pulled over by police 3x per week minimum. The excuse they used was I was driving a black car. I was forced to go to police stations all the time to show a 'producer'.
Even today people shout stuff at me all the time like terrorist and the like. Ignorant part is that I'm not even part of that 'race' if that's what you want to call it.
So essentially since 2001, my stock nosedived because I'm not blonde with blue eyes.
Que
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A couple of miles from where I was living at the time, a Sikh was shot maybe a few days post 9/11 at the gas station he worked at. Idiot that shot him didn't have any idea the difference between the Sikh faith and Islam.
AnnaChristie
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That's horrible iamshaun and completely unacceptable.
I don't wish to sound as if I'm promoting 'conspiracy' theories, However, I feel that in the wake of yesterday's news here in the UK, there's an actual agenda to 'ramp up' the fear factor in the general populace. Divide and rule...
D
DesEsseintes
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That's awful, Shaun. There are idiots everywhere. Like those cretins who broke into and trashed a doctor's house a few years ago, at the height of the News of the World's campaign for 'Sara's law', because they didn't know the difference between a paediatrician and a paedophile.
J
JudasIscariot
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That's horrible.
I read one article on sky news and they mentioned it happened in a 'predominately afghan neighbourhood'
Typical of the gutter media we have over here.
dolf
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the accent cuts both ways for women, it's true. if you go with it you're snooty and up yourself, think you're better than everyone else, etc. but it's handy in disputes and when dealing with a certain type of person.
Busybody
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JudasIscariot
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This guy.
I can't take him seriously at all. He's arguably the funniest person on this site.
Busybody
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that's absurd
you "people" are under attack
of course your useless country should ramp up security
and who else to LOOK at
but "people" like YOU
Busybody
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This guy.
I can't take him seriously at all. He's arguably the funniest person on this site.
yeah, the police should pull over granny, right?
AnnaChristie
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Exactly dolf! Thank you.
The first is annoying but you have to keep thinking 'to thine own self be true' and be consistently well mannered towards those people.
The second is a sad necessity sometimes - but can also be rather fun, in the right mood and circumstances!
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J
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If she is speeding or committing a crime then yeah sure.
AnnaChristie
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Thanks. I've had my first General Board 'Bunny Love'. x
dolf
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I can't be true to myself at work. the elderly cripples kept doffing caps they weren't wearing and apologising for me having to work.
it's amazing the difference a few strategically abandoned vowels can do.
