Diminishing Returns

[UntoldDepths]

I’ve started a series on here, which follows the story of the same characters, is that a mistake? From an authors point of view, I enjoy developing a story, but would it attract more readers if the stories stood on their own? My reading figures have dropped over the series, yet I feel that one or two of them are better than the first instalment. Obviously, there will be a lag in the figures of subsequent chapters, but I feel none of them will surpass the first one, as that has already turned some readers off. You could say I shouldn’t worry about the figures and the cream will rise to the top, but I don’t want my improving or best work being obscured in a pile of lesser chapters. Anyone else experience this ?
You see a story, it says Ch16. You either don’t read it, as you don’t want to have to read the other 15. Or, you do read it, find it not to your liking, and the other 15 never see the light of day?

 

[alohadave]

My reading figures have dropped over the series

This is normal, and to be expected. If you continue the series, it should level out to the fans of the story reading each installment because they like the story.

You see a story, it says Ch16. You either don’t read it, as you don’t want to have to read the other 15. Or, you do read it, find it not to your liking, and the other 15 never see the light of day?

If I come across a story for the first time and it's on ch 16, I am unlikely to read the whole series, especially if I go to chapter 1 and it has a high word count.

Like if the first chapter is 12k words and there are 10-15 chapters, I probably won't bother unless the first chapter grabs me from the get-go.

It's a big time commitment.

 

[iwatchus]

I’ve started a series on here, which follows the story of the same characters, is that a mistake? From an authors point of view, I enjoy developing a story, but would it attract more readers if the stories stood on their own? My reading figures have dropped over the series, yet I feel that one or two of them are better than the first instalment. Obviously, there will be a lag in the figures of subsequent chapters, but I feel none of them will surpass the first one, as that has already turned some readers off. You could say I shouldn’t worry about the figures and the cream will rise to the top, but I don’t want my improving or best work being obscured in a pile of lesser chapters. Anyone else experience this ?
You see a story, it says Ch16. You either don’t read it, as you don’t want to have to read the other 15. Or, you do read it, find it not to your liking, and the other 15 never see the light of day?

Some readers want series. Some will avoid them like the plague. When I was purely a reader, I often sought ought series, because if I found one I liked I got more reading before I had to search through many stories that didn't appeal to me to find more.

As always, the typical advice is write what you want and some readers will find you. If you want to optimize readers, there are things you can do, mostly picking a category that gets lots of views. But I prefer to write what I want to and relish the readers and feedback I do get.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Something that helps with a series is if you end it.
There are a not insignificant number of people who won't read a series until it's finished because there are a number of unfinished ones around here.

Bottom line is you will see that drop off, and at some point it will level out.
On a positive note, the scores will generally increase, because only the people who like it will stick around.

 

[IWroteThis]

One thing I don't see mentioned above is that you need to keep the series fairly consistent in themes. Series that jump from category to category are going to lose readers who don't want to follow you into those categories, while readers of the new category aren't likely to go back and read the earlier chapters, because they already would have read them if they read stories from those categories.

While there are some people who will read pretty much anything, most people don't have the time to read that many stories, so it makes no sense to read about things you don't enjoy reading about.

 

[Britva415]

Hey, question about the series feature:

If you mark a series as complete, can you reverse that later or add a new chapter to it anyway? Or does marking it complete close the series down forever?

 

[dirk2024]

You see a story, it says Ch16. You either don’t read it, as you don’t want to have to read the other 15. Or, you do read it, find it not to your liking, and the other 15 never see the light of day?

For me, it depends. If it's an author I am already following and I've read other series they write, I'm likely to go back to the 1st story in the series and start reading. Same thing if I go to the seach feature because I want to read a "tentacle" story. If you're 15 chapters into "Tentacle Lover from Planet Zyborg 9" I'm gonna give it a shot.

I do this because I assume there are fifteen stories I'll want to read and won't have to search for.

 

[alohadave]

Hey, question about the series feature:

If you mark a series as complete, can you reverse that later or add a new chapter to it anyway? Or does marking it complete close the series down forever?

You can reopen the series later. It's mostly an indicator to readers that a series is considered complete.

 

[TheLobster]

You can reopen the series later. It's mostly an indicator to readers that a series is considered complete.

It’s a pretty poor indicator, too, because both parties aren’t likely to know it even exists.

For authors, the feature is buried under the Series page in the control panel, which most don’t go to. If you simply number your chapters, you may not even be aware a series has been created for you, as the submission form says nothing about it nor does it allow you to mark a chapter as the last one.

For readers the indicator that the series is complete is not easily accessible either. You won’t find it anywhere on the chapter themselves: not on first one, not even the last one. One has to go the public page of the series, to which the link is buried all the way down on the sidebar and that very few people know even exists; or you may see a small indicator on the author’s profile page if you bother to go there.

All in all, I wouldn’t count on readers to get the message that the series is finished by the completion marker alone. If you want to avoid getting the “where more?” comments, you need to insert a honking big THE END into the text itself.

 

[RejectReality]

Nobody is accustomed to looking for those complete markers yet anyway. They're too new to have been widely adopted. Finish it before you start posting, and tell everyone in an author's note at the beginning of the first how many chapters there are and how often you're going to try to publish. That's far more likely to affect who will give it a shot.

 

[THBGato]

Just adding my two pennies' worth. I read a lot, but a series over five chapters will put me off unless I'm already familiar with the writer and trust them.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I'm an avid reader...If I'm looking for something to read, and I see a chaptered series, I don't even bother to check it out. I've been burned by authors that leave them unfinished...
I prefer stand alone stories, regardless of length.

Just speaking for myself.

Cagivagurl

 

[UntoldDepths]

I'm an avid reader...If I'm looking for something to read, and I see a chaptered series, I don't even bother to check it out. I've been burned by authors that leave them unfinished...
I prefer stand alone stories, regardless of length.

Just speaking for myself.

Cagivagurl

That’s what I thought might happen, although mine are quite episodic. I think I might switch to keeping the same characters, but make sure each story can be read in its own right.

 

[Cagivagurl]

That’s what I thought might happen, although mine are quite episodic. I think I might switch to keeping the same characters, but make sure each story can be read in its own right.

There being no intention on my behalf to influence your decision...
That is just my reading habit... My preference.
There are many here that feel the opposite... And may offer valid reasons explaining their logic...
Do you....

Cagivagurl

 

[THBGato]

That’s what I thought might happen, although mine are quite episodic. I think I might switch to keeping the same characters, but make sure each story can be read in its own right.

I've done that.



These five stories are all linked and sequential, but aren't in a series. It's interesting how all five of them have more views and votes than each chapter of this series which was published 6 months beforehand:

Same author, same category. Sure, I had more followers when I started publishing the "I have..." stories, but usually you'd expect the older stories to have more views and votes.

 

[UntoldDepths]

There being no intention on my behalf to influence your decision...
That is just my reading habit... My preference.
There are many here that feel the opposite... And may offer valid reasons explaining their logic...
Do you....

Cagivagurl

I came back to this site a short while ago. I was reading a 20ish chapter story. I really enjoyed it. However, the last five or six episodes (where it abruptly stopped), were moving away from what I liked about the story. If I’d have read the later chapters first, I wouldn’t have read the first 15.
That’s why I started writing on here. I wanted to write a story I’d like to read. Which takes it back full circle, why am I bothered about how many other people read it?
Vanity, I guess.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I came back to this site a short while ago. I was reading a 20ish chapter story. I really enjoyed it. However, the last five or six episodes (where it abruptly stopped), were moving away from what I liked about the story. If I’d have read the later chapters first, I wouldn’t have read the first 15.
That’s why I started writing on here. I wanted to write a story I’d like to read. Which takes it back full circle, why am I bothered about how many other people read it?
Vanity, I guess.

Everybody has an ego.
Nothing to be ashamed of...
Scores are not everything though...
If you enjoyed the process, of writing. You are already a winner.

Cagivagurl

 

[SimonDoom]

If you are going to write a series, you must accept that reader attrition is inevitable and totally understandable. It is not a reflection on your work. It's an inevitable, statistical reality. Don't get discouraged by it.

"Views" are not reads. If you publish chapter 1 and it says you had 50,000 views, that only means that it was clicked on 50,000 times. Some fraction of that actually read it. Some fraction of that actually liked it enough to move on to chapter 2. Nobody can expect EVERYONE to like chapter 1 enough to move on to chapter 2.

It's common for chapter 2 to have only about half the views of chapter 1. Then there's a bit of continued dropoff, from one chapter to the next, although not always. When I write chaptered stories, they're all in the same category, so the results are more predictable. But if you move from one category to the next as the chapters progress, the results will be unpredictable. You may lose readers because they're just not interested in the combination of category kinks you are trying to explore.

I've found that the final chapter sometimes has more views than chapters that came before.

 

[alohadave]

If you want to avoid getting the “where more?” comments, you need to insert a honking big THE END into the text itself.

Even better to put it in the title or description of the last chapter.

 

[lovecraft68]

If you're enjoying it, its not a mistake.

I started here with a long brother sister story that received insanely low numbers for the category. I kept going, finished it and still feel its my best work even though its numbers are nowhere near stories I've written that were toss away whatever one shots to me.

This is what is meant by the oft misused 'write for yourself' term.

You don't get paid here by clicks or votes or any stat.

You love it, you write it.

That simple

 

[UntoldDepths]

If you're enjoying it, its not a mistake.

I started here with a long brother sister story that received insanely low numbers for the category. I kept going, finished it and still feel its my best work even though its numbers are nowhere near stories I've written that were toss away whatever one shots to me.

This is what is meant by the oft misused 'write for yourself' term.

You don't get paid here by clicks or votes or any stat.

You love it, you write it.

That simple

Aye. I think even if my figures were double, if wasn’t enjoying it, I’d stop.
The snag I have now is, I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time thinking up scenes for stories.

 

[iwatchus]

For readers the indicator that the series is complete is not easily accessible either. You won’t find it anywhere on the chapter themselves: not on first one, not even the last one. One has to go the public page of the series, to which the link is buried all the way down on the sidebar and that very few people know even exists; or you may see a small indicator on the author’s profile page if you bother to go there.

While I agree I would love to see it flagged on every story in the series, I think the COMPLETED flag works well for readers. And I assume that we, as authors have a pretty good idea if one of our series is complete.

I certainly notice the COMPLETED flag prominently when looking at an author's profile page. This works well for me as a reader. If I see a chapter x story appears that I might be interested in, my first click is on the author page. I want to read the descriptions of the earlier stories (and the categories for series that jump categories). That tag is very visible and prominent there.

If I want to read a complete series, my most likely discovery is looking at the profile page of an author who has written something I enjoyed. Author's profile pages drive so much of my story discovery, this is the appropriate place to focus that information on. If I see a chapter on a new story list, I assume that the series is not yet complete, the odds are fairly strong it isn't.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

A lot of comments here feed the confusion over what a series is compared to a chaptered story.

If you use television shows as an example, a series will typically be stand-alone episodes that could be viewed independent of the other episodes before them. They don't have to be viewed in order for them to be understood. Most sit-coms would be good examples.

Then, there are shows which called while called a "series" are more like chapter stories, where one episode leads to the next, and so on. The "Reacher" series is one that comes to my mind as an example. Each episode was like a chapter from the books on which the stories are based.

I write both series and chapter stories, but I no longer publish chapter stories in pieces, based upon reader feedback. In fact, I asked Laurel to take down the individual chapters of the four stories that I had originally submitted as chapters and replace them with the single file containing all the chapters. In each case the score increased at least 0.10.

Of the two series that I do have published here, one (Before They Were Stars) is comprised of six separate stories that share a common theme, but nothing else. The other (Uncle Sugar Daddy), is comprised of three separate stories that share the same theme, characters, and settings.

My suggestion is for anyone considering publishing in pieces to go to the intended category for their story and see how well stories in parts are accepted by the readers there.

 

[Britva415]

A lot of comments here feed the confusion over what a series is compared to a chaptered story.

Well

There's no way to know which it is, without reading the stuff.

 

[iwatchus]

A lot of comments here feed the confusion over what a series is compared to a chaptered story.

If the author chooses to present the chapters as distinct entries, the site makes not distinction what so ever. Choosing to post groups of chapters is a justifiable position although I do understand not the one you reccomend. Others have made the opposite recommendation to me.

Notice you could post a group of related stories in one entity if you really wanted to. I wouldn't recommend it here, but I know authors who have done it on other sites because of the rules on that site.

Series can also be used here to group related stories thematically. For example, there are authors here who put all their WIWAW essays in a single series to keep them together on their profile page.

In other words, the series feature here on the site is overlapping with, but not equivalent to, the series concept that you are talking about.