difficult characters; anti-heroes and villians you love to hate

[Stella_Omega]

fallingToFly's thread reminded me;

I recently had a protracted encounter with a homeless person trying to get off the streets-- who had lost almost every shred of social understanding, and did not know how to get along with roommates, for instance, or how to grease the social wheels. It was horrifying, and the roommates, three idealistic young adults, had to force this person out for their own safety-- throwing someone back out on the street before the whole house was thrown out on the street collectively.

I could never make up a character like that. I wish I had never encountered this one, but at the same time what a huge richness of character traits for a writer!

I could see, very clearly, the very human, pathos-inducing, motivations for this person's really fucked up actions. And at the same time, see what stress and damage those actions caused everyone around.

I could base an antagonist on this person, but making an anti-hero is the way I want to go, I think. Of course, to make it palatable to the reader, my character will learn and redeem themselves over the course of the plot-- possibly in a sentimental hallmark moment, or possibly unwillingly... even unknowingly.

What's the most flawed character you've ever written? Did they redeem themselves, or did they die a coward's death?

 

[FallingToFly]

Gah.. you would ask.

In my original work, it's a toss-up between Drakalen and Heather.

Heather is the character in What Passes Between (which I am once again working on, much to my surprise) and she's SO damn broken. Spiritually, physically and mentally, she is a mess, but she has this incredible maternal drive and determination that is carrying her through the story. Slowly, she's growing into a character that I can admire, grudgingly, and see how far she's come. I also see how far she has to go, and how much crap she's going to have to wade through to get there. The sad thing is- Heather is me, three years ago. I started writing WPB when I was drinking heavily, losing my mind and my marriage, and seriously contemplating suicide. Writing her now is both painful and purifying, and makes me laugh at how much I've managed to regain.

Drakalen, on the other hand, embraces being broken. He's a sorceror turned demonic avatar (he made a really stupid deal, lol) who falls hopelessly in love/hate with another demon. He's a drug addict, a serial seducer, utterly ruthless and hedonistic. He doesn't care about anyone or thing except himself and his beloved enemy. They keep trying to kill each other. And he loves every second of it. He's possibly one of the most dangerous characters I've written to my own peace of mind, because he takes out my darkest whispers of ideas and brings them to full Technicolor glory. I once described writing him as "the most beautiful trainwreck I've ever had the misfortune to be in the middle of."

I love writing both stories, but both of them give me nightmares, and rip parts of my soul and psyche to shreds.

 

[sr71plt]

I've toyed sometimes with the dictum that there needs to be change in a story. I think that a natural story line can be that, despite all attempts/opportunities/need, there isn't change--in either characters or the situation. I think "can't/won't change" is a legitimate (and more often than not realistic and cautionary) result in a story.

For instance:

I have a whole line of "that's fine with me" male prostitute stories, where the point is that the protagonist is content with his choices and puts up a barrier to being either reformed or becoming emotionally attached--or being ashamed in the least at what he's doing.

My "Distant Planets" story is one where a relationship is deteriorating because the two protagonists won't/can't communicate and both misjudge the commitment/affection/actions of the other. Both characters are seriously flawed by their inabilities to relate. I think the story provides a slice of reality and becomes a cautionary tale, where the reader gets the point better by the nonresolution of the situation than he/she would from a Pollyanish revelation followed by a falling-in-each-other's-arms conclusion.

Of course whenever I leave a character flawed or a situation (realistically) unresolved, readers ask where the followup story is. They don't want "unfixed" flawed characters or anything but a happy-ever-after ending.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've toyed sometimes with the dictum that there needs to be change in a story. I think that a natural story line can be that, despite all attempts/opportunities/need, there isn't change--in either characters or the situation. I think "can't/won't change" is a legitimate (and more often than not realistic and cautionary) result in a story.

For instance:

I have a whole line of "that's fine with me" male prostitute stories, where the point is that the protagonist is content with his choices and puts up a barrier to being either reformed or becoming emotionally attached--or being ashamed in the least at what he's doing.

My "Distant Planets" story is one where a relationship is deteriorating because the two protagonists won't/can't communicate and both misjudge the commitment/affection/actions of the other. Both characters are seriously flawed by their inabilities to relate. I think the story provides a slice of reality and becomes a cautionary tale, where the reader gets the point better by the nonresolution of the situation than he/she would from a Pollyanish revelation followed by a falling-in-each-other's-arms conclusion.

Of course whenever I leave a character flawed or a situation (realistically) unresolved, readers ask where the followup story is. They don't want "unfixed" flawed characters or anything but a happy-ever-after ending.

I started one story where the female protag is overbearing, chauvinistic, and unrepentantly corrupt. Also, she gets to change sex and become male. (The prompt was "Ultimate self-insertion" )

The people who read the first couple chapters totally assumed that she would become considerate, kind, maternal, and make amends for her theivery, AND find happiness in a female body-- or else what kind of plot could there be? I was really impressed by the sheer force of that societal-norms type of expectation. I've set that story aside to be revisited later.

 

[sr71plt]

I forgot to add that a good many of my stories are classical temptation and good vs. evil struggles. And some are realistic enough to give evil the upper hand. An example of the latter is my recently posted "Pierced," where there is an evil character working on the vulnerability of a susceptible--but at least neutral--protagonist and reaching the point of having his way.

(Of course some of the comments were asking for a sequel to get "good" off the hook. But I'll leave it for these readers to spin circumstances in their own minds to achieve that.)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Good point, my anti-hero's arc could be the struggle against temptation.

The temptation for thievery would be the plot point, not the gender-marker aspects of her character.

 

[Liar]

fallingToFly's thread reminded me;

I recently had a protracted encounter with a homeless person trying to get off the streets-- who had lost almost every shred of social understanding, and did not know how to get along with roommates, for instance, or how to grease the social wheels. It was horrifying, and the roommates, three idealistic young adults, had to force this person out for their own safety-- throwing someone back out on the street before the whole house was thrown out on the street collectively.

I could never make up a character like that. I wish I had never encountered this one, but at the same time what a huge richness of character traits for a writer!

I could see, very clearly, the very human, pathos-inducing, motivations for this person's really fucked up actions. And at the same time, see what stress and damage those actions caused everyone around.

I could base an antagonist on this person, but making an anti-hero is the way I want to go, I think. Of course, to make it palatable to the reader, my character will learn and redeem themselves over the course of the plot-- possibly in a sentimental hallmark moment, or possibly unwillingly... even unknowingly.

What's the most flawed character you've ever written? Did they redeem themselves, or did they die a coward's death?

I know a handful of people similar to that. Nobody so extremely messed up that they corrupt their surroundings and put other people in trouble, but persions who are on the outskirts of community, and just not compatible with normal social roles and behavior. They don't evoke anger and hate as much as pity, as they scrape by... Not being able to hold a normal job, not being able to take care of a normal home, not being able to keep normal relations and friendships. One of them recently got evicted from an apartment although the Social Services had agreeed to pay the rent... because he forgot to turn in the bill to them... for nine months.

Many of their 'socially uncomfortable' traits are incorporated into a charachter I'm working on right now. He's wholly inapable of taking care of himself, and wholly derived of understanding and empathy for the situation he puts people around him in with serial mythomania and guilt trip manipulation. Also a hyopocondric and a germophobe. And comfortably ol' time misogynist and racist.

He's the protag.

Haven't quite decided what is going to happen to him yet. Only have a premise so far, that has yet to develop into a story arc. I'm most interrested to see if I can hold up the unlikeable charachteristics of him without it turning into a gimmick.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

As Stella and I have discussed, I'm neither capable of writing a story with misery as one of its central theme nor am I willing to read one. The combination of repeated (though long past) bouts of clinical depression and Asperger's makes me seek out pleasure and happiness because I've already had my share of the reverse. No, I won't write about anyone I can't stand.

 

[oggbashan]

I have two:

Fag-Ash Lil in Jeanne's story Unatit. Fag-Ash was based on a real person, my only character based on a single identifiable individual. She died recently but has been replaced in our community by a woman who behaves in a similar way. Both were/are harmless but not pleasant to encounter. Their language and aggressive behaviour deterred conversation, even if meaningful conversation was possible. It usually wasn't because their meaning was obscured by alcohol or drug abuse.

The other is the male character, Wayne, in Donna. Unfortunately I have known too many people with some features of Wayne but that character is a construct, an amalgamation of several individuals.

Og

 

[DeeZire]

I've got at least four:

"Sveni the Viking Rock Star" is based on a Scouries-like character with an inflated ego and marginal talent. Sadly for the protag, he learns nothing over the course of the story - just like in real life.

There's "The Bleaker House Ghost", where I felt more compassion for the villain than the victim. This didn't happen till near the end of the story, so I had to leave it unresolved, since it was still unresolved in my mind.

"You've Been Trolled" is about your stereotypical LIT troll (at least from my POV) who is an ignorant, selfish conservative (stereotype, I know, but so much fun to write!) with no compassion for authors, or women, but has an unhealthy interest in his Mom. That was a rewarding exercise, especially making him deal with his shortcomings at the end of the story where his role is reversed.

"I Hate Christmas" is about a scumbag finally coming to the realization that he can rise above being a shallow cad if he really wants to. I think some readers never got far enough into the story to find that out. Oh well, that's their loss.

Come to think of it, a good third of my stories feature a flawed main character making life miserable for others. For a hack like me, writing a flawed character is easier, in that you don't have to work so hard to set up conflict. Beyond taking the easy way out, I like flawed characters because, to me, they're more indicative of real life. How many flawed characters find redemption in real life? I'd suggest most of them stay assholes until their dying breath, when they suddenly realize they've wasted their entire time on Earth being selfish, mean and petty. (I'm really not looking forward to my dying breath - for this very reason. )

 

[Stella_Omega]

<snip>
"I Hate Christmas" is about a scumbag finally coming to the realization that he can rise above being a shallow cad if he really wants to. I think some readers never got far enough into the story to find that out. Oh well, that's their loss.
</snip>

Ah, but is it their loss really? If someone stops reading in the middle of my story, I'm the one that loses out, IMO. When I stop reading for that reason, the only loss I feel is of the time I wasted up to the point-- the author's intentions are not my problem...

I want to achieve the skill to make readers stay interested in such a character, which is why I set aside my antisocial misgendered protag.

 

[DeeZire]

Ah, but is it their loss really? If someone stops reading in the middle of my story, I'm the one that loses out, IMO. When I stop reading for that reason, the only loss I feel is of the time I wasted up to the point-- the author's intentions are not my problem...

I want to achieve the skill to make readers stay interested in such a character, which is why I set aside my antisocial misgendered protag.

I would assume that you're a good enough writer to pull that off.

But really, it comes down to reader preference. We can't please everyone all the time. My favorite LIT authors generally don't score very well, which validates my belief that acceptance by the widest possible readership is not always a valid reflection of a story's worth.

Speaking of despicable characters, the Silence of the Lambs comes to mind...

 

[Boota]

In Mr. Undesirable my main character was so unlikable to publishers that I had a query returned with insults toward me AND the character in the margins. But readers love the guy. Most of what I hear is that he starts out as a dirt poor, foul-mouthed, porn addicted, binge drinking malcontent and while changing very little brings the reader around to liking and understanding him. That's what I set out to do, but was pleasantly surprised when the feedback indicated I had actually pulled it off.

With Picking On Retards the main character is an arrogant bully with a huge sense of entitlement that lasts him deep into the book. It really is the defining element of who he is as a person. Even writing the first part of the book was difficult for me because I knew where the guy was going, but I didn't like who he was when I started out. He was based on the stereotypical scumbag jock bully everyone knew in high school.

 

[FallingToFly]

Boota:

For some reason, I have a feeling I've dated both of those guys at some point... and if I haven't, I know someone who has.

Congrats on pulling it off and bringing them into useful conclusions in your stories. (It never works that way in real life.) I'm not sure I have that much skill yet. Right now the two "bad" MCs I'm working with are still at the "Oh, quit WHINING" and "I'm only watching in fascinated horror to see what happens next" stage in my mind. Rewrites are in order...

 

[squarejohn]

"A Confederacy of Dunces" by John Kennedy Toole is a perfect example of the anti-hero which simultaneously is very funny.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In Mr. Undesirable my main character was so unlikable to publishers that I had a query returned with insults toward me AND the character in the margins. But readers love the guy. Most of what I hear is that he starts out as a dirt poor, foul-mouthed, porn addicted, binge drinking malcontent and while changing very little brings the reader around to liking and understanding him. That's what I set out to do, but was pleasantly surprised when the feedback indicated I had actually pulled it off.

With Picking On Retards the main character is an arrogant bully with a huge sense of entitlement that lasts him deep into the book. It really is the defining element of who he is as a person. Even writing the first part of the book was difficult for me because I knew where the guy was going, but I didn't like who he was when I started out. He was based on the stereotypical scumbag jock bully everyone knew in high school.

Expect to get a letter from my lawyer for slanderand defamation!

 

[scriptordelecto]

The protag in an urban fantasy piece I've been at work on for years started out as a bad-ass. I quickly realized that she was boring. If I wanted a super hero, I could just head over to visit the boys at the comic shop. Instead, I've made her a bad-ass in her own mind. She's someone who has a great deal of talent and fairly honorable intentions, but her lack of experience and her arrogance is going to get a lot of people killed. I find her far more accessible this way. Will she learn anything from it? I'll just have to see where it goes.

 

[CharleyH]

fallingToFly's thread reminded me;

I recently had a protracted encounter with a homeless person trying to get off the streets-- who had lost almost every shred of social understanding, and did not know how to get along with roommates, for instance, or how to grease the social wheels. It was horrifying, and the roommates, three idealistic young adults, had to force this person out for their own safety-- throwing someone back out on the street before the whole house was thrown out on the street collectively.

I could never make up a character like that. I wish I had never encountered this one, but at the same time what a huge richness of character traits for a writer!

I could see, very clearly, the very human, pathos-inducing, motivations for this person's really fucked up actions. And at the same time, see what stress and damage those actions caused everyone around.

I could base an antagonist on this person, but making an anti-hero is the way I want to go, I think. Of course, to make it palatable to the reader, my character will learn and redeem themselves over the course of the plot-- possibly in a sentimental hallmark moment, or possibly unwillingly... even unknowingly.

What's the most flawed character you've ever written? Did they redeem themselves, or did they die a coward's death?

I think it's difficult for most people to write from a POV that's detestable to the majority, but I think some great authors have written wonderful things - great things - with their middle finger in the air. The most flawed character I've ever read is Winnie from Sam Beckett's 'Happy Days', the most flawed character I've ever watched in a movie is Sally Bowles from 'Cabaret'. The most flawed character I ever written? At least one character in every story I write is flawed, if not detestable ... isn't that what makes for steamy, grinding, all-out tension - sexual or otherwise?

 

[Stella_Omega]

The protag in an urban fantasy piece I've been at work on for years started out as a bad-ass. I quickly realized that she was boring. If I wanted a super hero, I could just head over to visit the boys at the comic shop. Instead, I've made her a bad-ass in her own mind. She's someone who has a great deal of talent and fairly honorable intentions, but her lack of experience and her arrogance is going to get a lot of people killed. I find her far more accessible this way. Will she learn anything from it? I'll just have to see where it goes.

That's exactly the kind of thing I want to read, Scriptor! And thank you, you've inspired me in regards my own character-- who is, still, a badass, but maybe not as bad as she thinks she is. Arrogance is somehow endearing to me-- vis Flashman...

 

[voluptuary_manque]

That's exactly the kind of thing I want to read, Scriptor! And thank you, you've inspired me in regards my own character-- who is, still, a badass, but maybe not as bad as she thinks she is. Arrogance is somehow endearing to me-- vis Flashman...

A vulnerable contrarian, perhaps. I would rather go for a wounded hero. In fact, I believe I may have written about . . . three? Yeah, that's an appealing sort of person.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A vulnerable contrarian, perhaps. I would rather go for a wounded hero. In fact, I believe I may have written about . . . three? Yeah, that's an appealing sort of person.

I like those distinctions.

Name us one of your wounded heros, please? What makes him-- or her-- wounded, and heroic? (I'm thinking of Edith)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think it's difficult for most people to write from a POV that's detestable to the majority, but I think some great authors have written wonderful things - great things - with their middle finger in the air. The most flawed character I've ever read is Winnie from Sam Beckett's 'Happy Days', the most flawed character I've ever watched in a movie is Sally Bowles from 'Cabaret'. The most flawed character I ever written? At least one character in every story I write is flawed, if not detestable ... isn't that what makes for steamy, grinding, all-out tension - sexual or otherwise?

John LeCarre creates excellent pissant bureaucrat villains. You hate them worse than the Kremlin killers who snare and murder British spies. I mean, you can respect a real warrior but not a rear echelon back stabber.