Differences in spacing and such in different countries

[LissaSue]

Is there really a different set of standards regarding spacings for countries other than America? Or is it just something that people don't either pay attention to or know about?

 

[sr71plt]

Not that I know of. The two spaces after terminal punctuation came in during the typewriter era and only because the typewriter couldn't handle the printing style of a space plus a bit more leading (just as it couldn't handle proportional fonts). The typewriter era has been over for over twenty years. Computers can and do handle extra leading for these instances (although the human eye has difficulty discerning it), matching what has been printing style back to Gutenberg's Bible.

For a good discussion of this, track down Robin Williams's (no, not the comedian) The PC Is Not a Typewriter or The Mac Is Not a Typewriter.

 

[roomfor1more]

Is there really a different set of standards regarding spacings for countries other than America? Or is it just something that people don't either pay attention to or know about?

I know the the two spaces after a period is the general accepted standard for typing a generic business document. However other formats, if my memory is correct APA and legal for example, use one space after a period in order to preserve the amount of paper used.

Regarding double spacing between lines, again that depends on the format being used. For example when typing a business letter the format, generally speaking, is single space between lines when typing within the paragraph and double space between paragraphs. Whereas, when following APA format and typing legal documents the standard, generally speaking, is double spacing.

Therefore, the answer to your question I feel there is not one accepted standard for spacing. Instead I feel it comes down to the format you are using, your audience, and the customary practices for that area. This means, unless the standard is specified, when writing, then any spacing style can be acceptable provided it is applied consistently throughout the document.

 

[sr71plt]

if my memory is correct APA and legal for example, use one space after a period in order to preserve the amount of paper used.

No, not really. It's all connected to printing style going back to the Gutenberg Bible. Printing adds leading to a character space after terminal punctuation. Always has. The typewriter couldn't do that; the computer can. It's all a matter of following "forever" printing style if you can.

It's not all that complicated.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Is there really a different set of standards regarding spacings for countries other than America? Or is it just something that people don't either pay attention to or know about?

I'll comment on this, for what it's worth. I use two spaces after ending a sentence, my preference. It separates one sentence from another to my eye. Just me. I think Word allows (without howling) three spaces between sentences, although I believe that's a little bit overkill.

When I submit stories to Lit I think the two spaces are shortened to one. And that's okay too. I'm easy (but not necessarily cheap).

 

[sr71plt]

*sigh*

 

[AsylumSeeker]

*sigh*

Okay SR, why the *sigh* ?

Obviously you disagree. And this is okay too, which is why we have forums to begin with. Actually I was a one-period guy until my current workplace, where all the other technical writers use two. Now I've been dragged into the mess.

 

[sr71plt]

Okay SR, why the *sigh* ?

Obviously you disagree. And this is okay too, which is why we have forums to begin with. Actually I was a one-period guy until my current workplace, where all the other technical writers use two. Now I've been dragged into the mess.

Editing isn't about going off and doing your own thing because it looks nice to you.

I explained to you the history of the two spaces. I even gave references.

But your reaction is typical. *sigh*

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Editing isn't about going off and doing your own thing because it looks nice to you.

I explained to you the history of the two spaces. I even gave references.

But your reaction is typical. *sigh*

When I edit I don't change spacing. As I said, just my personal preference.

When I was in the USAF as an evaluator I paid particular attention to "procedure" versus "personal preference", or "technique".

I taught procedure, but I also allowed for deviations based on technique as long as all steps in the checklist were completed.

SR, my friend, you can't bookmark life. Our time here is limited. I know that you have troves of information. Isn't it time we start using it to educate those who will follow in your footsteps?

Just a thought.

Okay, so I double-space. Hang me.

 

[LissaSue]

Ok, boys. All I wanted to know if there was a difference and what where we supposed to use. In my college English classes, we doubled spaced because the instructor said it was easier to read. Since I'm going to take it as a preference based thing (at least for writing for Lit), then we can all relax, wipe the foam from our mouths, and go back to our specified yards.

 

[sr71plt]

Ok, boys. All I wanted to know if there was a difference and what where we supposed to use. In my college English classes, we doubled spaced because the instructor said it was easier to read. Since I'm going to take it as a preference based thing (at least for writing for Lit), then we can all relax, wipe the foam from our mouths, and go back to our specified yards.

*sigh*

It isn't a preference-based thing. I carefully explained how it came to be and why it no longer is the standard--and only was the standard for typewriters and only because they couldn't do it right. And I provided references.

*sigh*

God, you folks have hard heads--and, I must say, are a little dopey.

 

[_Lynn_]

Ok, boys. All I wanted to know if there was a difference and what where we supposed to use. In my college English classes, we doubled spaced because the instructor said it was easier to read. Since I'm going to take it as a preference based thing (at least for writing for Lit), then we can all relax, wipe the foam from our mouths, and go back to our specified yards.

Why would you use one set of 'rules' for Lit, and another if you edited or wrote for publishing? That makes no sense. If everyone just used preferences, it would be a disaster.

 

[LissaSue]

I didn't mean to imply that I edit based on preference at all. I was only meaning that, if Lit was concerened about the ease of reading for the readers (for example with shorter paragraphs), then double spaces should be included in that. I know that, for myself personally, they help break up the text and it's easier on my eyes. Also, I may have made a mistake in assuming that different types of writing, legal and such, have different standards for it.

SR, I understood what you were explaining. I really do. I just didn't think that this one aspect was really as big a deal as, let's say, fragment sentences, run-ons, and the over all flow of a story.

 

[LissaSue]

I'd also like to know if that article by Mr. Williams goes for both MLA and APA? I only ask because it has some information in it that goes completly against what I was taught in English not even a full month ago.

 

[sr71plt]

I'd also like to know if that article by Mr. Williams goes for both MLA and APA? I only ask because it has some information in it that goes completly against what I was taught in English not even a full month ago.

They aren't articles. They are books. There's a lot of things the typewriter required that we never did before and didn't want to do and don't have to do now.

APA (5.11) Spacing and Punctuation

Space once after all punctuation as follows (bolding added)

after commas, colons, and semicolons
after punctuation marks at the ends of sentences (bolding added)
after periods that separate parts of a reference citation; and
after the periods of the initials in personal names.

MLA doesn't comment on it.

That said, why ask about these two for erotica writing? APA is for scientific writing and MLA is for college research papers.

Erotica would be controlled by the Chicago Manual of Style in the U.S. market (if you really want to be hard headed, maybe one of the British editors can tell what the Oxford says).

CMS 2.9

Word spacing--one space or two? Like most publishers, Chicago advises leaving a single character space, not two spaces, between sentences and after colons used within a sentence, and this recommendation applies to both the manuscript and the published work.

Guess your English teacher didn't know the typewriter era was over. She/He's in good company. Lots of people don't seem to know the typewriter era is over.

And, in case you wondered about Turabians:

4.1.3

"Put only one space, not two, following the terminal punctuation of a sentence."

 

[LissaSue]

Thank you for putting me straight on the subject, SR. I was, apparently, woefully unaware that there was anything called CMS. Thank you for sharing.

 

[_Lynn_]

They aren't articles. They are books. There's a lot of things the typewriter required that we never did before and didn't want to do and don't have to do now.

APA (5.11) Spacing and Punctuation

Space once after all punctuation as follows (bolding added)

after commas, colons, and semicolons
after punctuation marks at the ends of sentences (bolding added)
after periods that separate parts of a reference citation; and
after the periods of the initials in personal names.

MLA doesn't comment on it.

That said, why ask about these two for erotica writing? APA is for scientific writing and MLA is for college research papers.

Erotica would be controlled by the Chicago Manual of Style in the U.S. market (if you really want to be hard headed, maybe one of the British editors can tell what the Oxford says).

CMS 2.9

Word spacing--one space or two? Like most publishers, Chicago advises leaving a single character space, not two spaces, between sentences and after colons used within a sentence, and this recommendation applies to both the manuscript and the published work.

Guess your English teacher didn't know the typewriter era was over. She/He's in good company. Lots of people don't seem to know the typewriter era is over.

And, in case you wondered about Turabians:

4.1.3

"Put only one space, not two, following the terminal punctuation of a sentence."

I never knew there was such a thing as APA until I started school. Didn't think I was ever going to get the hang of parts of it either.

 

[Great_Brit]

... It isn't a preference-based thing. ...

I beg to disagree, on this occasion, as the appearance of a work of fiction is wholly a matter of the author's preferences.

Or would you, as an editor for the publisher, have insisted on proper punctuation to CMS standard for James Joyce's Ulysses instead of stream-of-consciousness?

 

[sr71plt]

I beg to disagree, on this occasion, as the appearance of a work of fiction is wholly a matter of the author's preferences.

Or would you, as an editor for the publisher, have insisted on proper punctuation to CMS standard for James Joyce's Ulysses instead of stream-of-consciousness?

What does terminal punctuation after a sentence have to do with stream of consciousness in James Joyce's Ulysses? Stream of consciousness isn't marked with character spaces.

(Now I'm more sure than ever that you're just the renamed Snooper.)

Besides, it's silly to ruminate on what a publisher would do for a James Joyce. Any accommodation they made would not be because of literary license. And they sure as hell aren't going to change a standard like this for you or me. The printer page setup programs I know of won't even accommodate doubled character spaces. One of the steps that publisher editors have to do is delete them all from the manuscript before it goes to production.