Did you know?

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

The US military has sacrificed quite a bit in the name of "nation building" in the past half century.

Protecting my liberty personally from the foreign hordes? Not so much.

So, in your mind, its' over right? You do not need a military at the moment because you are safe and secure, thanks to them, right? Yeah, I thought so. Take it away and see what happens. Neither of us will be here to have this conversation after they are 'removed'.

The only thing you are doing now Rob, is proving a point I made to kbate. This conversation w/you is over on my part. The only thing you are going to do is continue arguing against people who helped ensure our basic rights and freedoms.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

Why keep a separate Marine command structure? Why not a "Ground Command", cutting out half the generals from both structures?

Carrier groups are too expensive to build more.

Uhm, yeah....we are moving away from Aircraft Carriers. Where you been? The USS Enterprise (a real US ship, not the movie Star Trek) is being mothballed (that means deactivated, decommissioned, and stripped down) this year because she was too expensive to update the last time she was refitted. She served her purpose well for the US. Our military operates on a budget. A budget created by the very politicians we vote for. The Navy is not as shortsighted as you think it is. They are way ahead of either of us on this game.

 

[rosco rathbone]

They just don't make wars like they used too. I heard a rumor that the navy ships don't even have fighting tops any more.

It's damned outrageous, if you ask me.

It all started going downhill when they cut the grog ration and outlawed the lash.

 

[RobDownSouth]

So, in your mind, its' over right? You do not need a military at the moment because you are safe and secure, thanks to them, right? Yeah, I thought so. Take it away and see what happens. Neither of us will be here to have this conversation after they are 'removed'.

The only thing you are doing now Rob, is proving a point I made to kbate. This conversation w/you is over on my part. The only thing you are going to do is continue arguing against people who helped ensure our basic rights and freedoms.

Please don't ascribe positions to me, that's the job of AJ, Zipman and kbate. You can ask to be put on the waiting list if you like.

Here's my position: With the demise of the old Soviet Union, there has not been a credible threat against the United States.

The military budget of the United States vis-a-vis those of other countries still shows a ratio of about 10:1 versus the second largest military budget (China).

http://o.aolcdn.com/mars/17308/635/357/defence-budgets-and-expenditure---iiss.jpg

No amount of flag-waving and jingoism on your part can explain that discrepancy.

 

[JohnnySavage]

It all started going downhill when they cut the grog ration and outlawed the lash.

Ships without sails, and planes without propellers. I don't know where all this insanity will end.

 

[kbate]

Uhm, yeah....we are moving away from Aircraft Carriers. Where you been? The USS Enterprise (a real US ship, not the movie Star Trek) is being mothballed (that means deactivated, decommissioned, and stripped down) this year because she was too expensive to update the last time she was refitted. She served her purpose well for the US. Our military operates on a budget. A budget created by the very politicians we vote for. The Navy is not as shortsighted as you think it is. They are way ahead of either of us on this game.

"Carrier groups are too expensive to build more" = "We are moving away from Aircraft Carriers"?

I am well aware of who the USS Enterprise is, and it is time she is paid off, a 50 year career is enough for a warship. Thank you for the unnecessary and pointless educational post.

I said the Navy is shortsighted? Please show me where I said that.

You complain that I am posting from my own home? So what. You did not provide the freedom that allows that. My tax dollar paid for the weapons you took over to "where you did not have to fire your weapons in support of the marines who did not have to fire in support of you, but instead arrested you for drunk and disorderly". Thank you for using my tax dollars to get drunk and disorderly in a foreign port, I am certain you got drunk and disorderly in a heroic manner, in keeping with the best traditions of the Navy.

 

[rosco rathbone]

http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/all/1/

 

[kbate]

We do not need boots on the ground has been a liberal mantra ever since Bush if not since "the end of the cold war."

The we do not need the Marines meme was alive and well back then too, but they sure come in handy for all the right reasons.

Like that Eastwood movie about Grenada.

Do you think too that we should sub out the Airborne to the Air Force?

Plus, we'll need Marines when we land on the Alien Space ship or the Empire's Death Star...

Shit ain't gonna stay the way it is today, looking through the crystal ball of now, but the Marines will always be dedicated and loyal to dying to save their country.


UHRAH!!!

Really, a Clint Eastwood movie about invading Grenada is your proof of the necessity for a 200k man marine corps? Really?

No, the Airborne should remain Army soldiers, and the Marine Crops should also.

 

[JohnnySavage]

http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/all/1/

Fear the Dong Feng.

 

[RobDownSouth]

No, the Airborne should remain Army soldiers, and the Marine Crops should also.

Holy mangled sentence construction, Bate-man!

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

Please don't ascribe positions to me, that's the job of AJ, Zipman and kbate. You can ask to be put on the waiting list if you like.

Here's my position: With the demise of the old Soviet Union, there has not been a credible threat against the United States.

The military budget of the United States vis-a-vis those of other countries still shows a ratio of about 10:1 versus the second largest military budget (China).

http://o.aolcdn.com/mars/17308/635/357/defence-budgets-and-expenditure---iiss.jpg

No amount of flag-waving and jingoism on your part can explain that discrepancy.

Now we are getting somewhere. I entered this thread in opposition of disbanding our Marines. I am in support of downsizing our military.

The primary reasoning behind the US maintaining a large military after the cold war era was an understandable fear of the then vast Soviet Union's military arsenal falling into the hands of lesser, 3rd world nations. That time has passed and we have been way over budget on many things. It has become a war of economics, not a military one.

"Carrier groups are too expensive to build more" = "We are moving away from Aircraft Carriers"?

I am well aware of who the USS Enterprise is, and it is time she is paid off, a 50 year career is enough for a warship. Thank you for the unnecessary and pointless educational post.

I said the Navy is shortsighted? Please show me where I said that.

You complain that I am posting from my own home? So what. You did not provide the freedom that allows that. My tax dollar paid for the weapons you took over to "where you did not have to fire your weapons in support of the marines who did not have to fire in support of you, but instead arrested you for drunk and disorderly". Thank you for using my tax dollars to get drunk and disorderly in a foreign port, I am certain you got drunk and disorderly in a heroic manner, in keeping with the best traditions of the Navy.

You are personalizing this topic way too much.

I never said YOU said the Navy is shortsighted. I never single-handedly provided you with such freedoms, though I did play a small, active role in doing so under the orders of POTUS. When in uniform, you do not argue with nor do you have the same rights as a civilian. Nor do I apologize to you nor anyone else for joining the military.

Nor did I get arrested for drunk and disorderly. Once OUR tax dollars became mine via paycheck, I was free to do whatever I pleased with it in my own time. And those 'actions' as you put it, did not occur in a foreign port. They started at home because some dumbass with a personal agenda wants to start a fight with a person in uniform for whatever reasons. Maybe it was because someone offered us a drink? One or more of us were not totally white or black? They felt they were being oppressed because a military group of friends showed up to relax and have a good time away from their jobs?

Really, kbate, on this topic, you assume too much and are putting words into the mouth of someone that never said nor assumed such things of you.

I am not going to apologize for anything I have said, or what you thought I said. I do apologize for giving you the wrong impression.

 

[kbate]

Now we are getting somewhere. I entered this thread in opposition of disbanding our Marines. I am in support of downsizing our military.

The primary reasoning behind the US maintaining a large military after the cold war era was an understandable fear of the then vast Soviet Union's military arsenal falling into the hands of lesser, 3rd world nations. That time has passed and we have been way over budget on many things. It has become a war of economics, not a military one.


You are personalizing this topic way too much.

I never said YOU said the Navy is shortsighted. I never single-handedly provided you with such freedoms, though I did play a small, active role in doing so under the orders of POTUS. When in uniform, you do not argue with nor do you have the same rights as a civilian. Nor do I apologize to you nor anyone else for joining the military.

Nor did I get arrested for drunk and disorderly. Once OUR tax dollars became mine via paycheck, I was free to do whatever I pleased with it in my own time. And those 'actions' as you put it, did not occur in a foreign port. They started at home because some dumbass with a personal agenda wants to start a fight with a person in uniform for whatever reasons. Maybe it was because someone offered us a drink? One or more of us were not totally white or black? They felt they were being oppressed because a military group of friends showed up to relax and have a good time away from their jobs?

Really, kbate, on this topic, you assume too much and are putting words into the mouth of someone that never said nor assumed such things of you.

I am not going to apologize for anything I have said, or what you thought I said. I do apologize for giving you the wrong impression.

I am personalizing it? You are the one who told me that your experience makes your opinion more valuable, and told me that I'm a liberal who hates the military, and so on. I'm only answering you using the statements you used to show your qualification as a force structure and budget expert (having sailed on a submarine and having been rounded up by shore patrol).

I am putting words into your mouth? You have told me three times what I said, which is why I keep asking you to point out where I said these things. Why do you keep refusing?

You are free to post here from the safety of your own home, right? What more do I need to say? You think that shit was without sacrifice? Never mind, you do not get it.

You see this post^^^ this is where you attempted to change from discussing a topic, into a "personal issue".

I still stand by my statement, The Marine Corps could be disbanded or rolled into the Army without detriment to our war making ability.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Now we are getting somewhere. I entered this thread in opposition of disbanding our Marines. I am in support of downsizing our military.

The primary reasoning behind the US maintaining a large military after the cold war era was an understandable fear of the then vast Soviet Union's military arsenal falling into the hands of lesser, 3rd world nations. That time has passed and we have been way over budget on many things. It has become a war of economics, not a military one.

I'm glad we can find some common ground. My challenge still stands: in this day and age, what is the mission of the Marine Corps and more importantly, is there enough of a difference that would justify overlapping responsibilities with that of other armed forces?

I'm not saying the Marine Corps should be disbanded, but I'm having trouble identifying a unique fighting capability that Marines bring to the table anymore.

"But...but....We've always had a Marine Corps" seems to be as relevant as "But...but...We've always had a horse cavalry" back in the 1930s.

Time and technology march on.