Deregulation

[dr_mabeuse]

It was supposed to be good for the consumer, right? Isn't that what Reagan said?

So how come my old, regulated phone bill was $30 and now it's $150? How come all the airlines have folded, and now traveling on a plane is only one step up from travelling tied-up in the trunk of a car? How come all the radio stations are now owned by two companies? How come TV shows are now interrupted by 10-minute commercial breaks? How come I now have to pay $8 to go to a public beach?

Guess who's getting screwed again.

--Zoot

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Where the hell did infomercials come from?
Why is it we can't re-open the Alaskan pipeline?
Why isn't fast food fast and cheap?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

That reminds me, there was a comedian who mentioned airports...how ironic is it that the man who fired so many air traffic controllers has an airport named after him?

I found you can also regulate the cost of living by how much you pay for a box of cereal.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Zoot,

You are now getting five times the utility (by cost) from your old phone company.

It is much more democratic now that everyone has reason to entertain a rational fear of travelling by aeroplane.

It is natural now, while reality television is so popular, that an increasingly larger amount of all public broadcaster’s time is spent educating the consumer about actual products than ever before?

By adding a users fee to public beaches the government has conserved those beach for the use of citizens who care enough about visiting such a fascility to pony up an eight dollar admittance fee to gain access to it.


Reagan made only one mistake, and that was about his trickle down economic theory.

Not even if people in a lower tax bracket were on fire, would those at the top surrender a thing (not even their own urine) to help rectify the problem.

What’s the matter, Doc, don’t you understand conservative fiscal policy?

 

[angela146]

[...]So how come my old, regulated phone bill was $30 and now it's $150? [...]

This one is a good question. Why *are* you paying $150 for your phone? Around here, the broadband phone companies are charging about $25/month including long distance...

I pay more than that but I'm running a business out of my house...

 

[rgraham666]

It was propoganda, Doc.

Throughout history, businesses could only regulate themselves by going out of business. Sure there was competition in the beginning, but that ended as soon as somebody won, or the remaining few players agreed to split the suckers, I mean customers, between them. Sometimes literally.

By extolling the pure virtue of deregulation and competition, they caused us to forget all of that.

Ya know, for a supposedly 'thinking' species, we don't do a lot of that.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This one is a good question. Why *are* you paying $150 for your phone? Around here, the broadband phone companies are charging about $25/month including long distance...

I pay more than that but I'm running a business out of my house...

To tell you the truth, I don't understand anything about my phone bill.

All I know is, every month I get an envelope that I open up, and two hands come out and grab me by the ankles, turn me upside down and shake.

I keep on switching to new phone plans that are guaranteed to save me money, and I always end up paying more. (What the hell is a "Premium Service Line Charge"?)

As far as TV commercials go, I once coutned 17 commercials end-to-end during one episode of the Simpsons.

I really get the idea that we're no longer Citizens or even human beings. We're consumers, which is some kind of two-legged sheep-like animal that can be easily bred and herded around and periodically milked.

 

[angela146]

Dr M,

I just noticed your location... If you want to fly in comfort, take the train (or shuttle bus) up to Milwaukee and fly on Midwest Express. You'll probably save some time in the bargain by not having to deal with O'Hare.

A number of my friends and business associates in Chicago, even some who live in the western suburbs, take flights out of Milwaukee in order to avoid the cattle cars that take off from O'Hare.

While you're up there, check out the free beaches on Lake Michigan. (You might have to take a local resident with you).

 

[Colleen Thomas]

To tell you the truth, I don't understand anything about my phone bill.

All I know is, every month I get an envelope that I open up, and two hands come out and grab me by the ankles, turn me upside down and shake.

I keep on switching to new phone plans that are guaranteed to save me money, and I always end up paying more. (What the hell is a "Premium Service Line Charge"?)

As far as TV commercials go, I once coutned 17 commercials end-to-end during one episode of the Simpsons.

I really get the idea that we're no longer Citizens or even human beings. We're consumers, which is some kind of two-legged sheep-like animal that can be easily bred and herded around and periodically milked.

A line charge, is one of two three things Zoot.

A. Your phone company isn't a major one. they lease lines from the old Ma Bell affilate. They pass that cost on to you as a line charge. Literally, you are paying to use the old, extant lines rather than your company actually running their own.

B. A line charge might also be insurance you pay monthly. If itis, then it means you are paying to make it the phone companiy's problem no matter where your truopble might occur. Normally, their responsibility ends at the network interface on the outside of your house. I.e. it's free of charge if the problem is on their side. They gouge you like mad if it's on your side. In that case you can think of it as protection money, since they usually charge 125$ just to look at anything on yourside and you get smacked again if they need to replace lines, boxes etc.

C. a Premium line charge, might be a charge for a highspeed connection. Dsl, Adsl, Isdn, T lines all require special equptment on the CO frame to get you the service.

 

[iztheo]

Dr M. ,

Not sure how much the US Phone companies can do down there, but it sounds like you've got a bundled phone bill. Do you use the same company for your local/residential phone service, long distance, mobile phone, internet (dial up or adsl) and/or satellite/cable? They can all add up pretty quickly. My phone bill is normally around $120 ... but its local/long distance, internet and satellite.

I'm not sure when the US broke deregulated the phone companies, but I'm sure its been at least ten years now ... when you paid 25 bucks, it probably only included dialtone and touchtone. Beside the fact that everything is more expensive than it was 10 years ago, additional services and features such as call display, voicemail and the other "soft services" that the Telcos are pushing add up very quickly. If you got "bundled", you may have a package of services that you aren't even using.

Now if you want to hear complaints about deregulation and gouging bills, let me tell you about Ontario Hydro ...

 

[Penelope Street]

We have two phone lines, one for my love and I and our computers and the dog- and the other for the teenager.

Anyway, two lines with unlimited long distance and our total bill is half of what yours is. Adjusted for inflation and taking into account the hours of long-distance we use, I believe my phone bill is less than it was when during the Reagan years. Much less; I consider deregulation of the phone service to be a success.

I'm not sure what is meant by traveling on a plane is only one step up from travelling tied-up in the trunk of a car. Is the trunk analogy meant as an observation regarding how many passengers airlines can cram into a plane? With consumers shopping by price rather than comfort, what else should we expect? Last I checked, airline tickets we're much more than they were twenty years ago. I can fly across the country and back, in relative safety if not comfort, for less than what I take home in a week. As a consumer, I'm not feeling milked by that deal.

All the radio stations being owned by two companies, especially those two, well, that does worry me a little. *sigh*

 

[iztheo]

It was propoganda, Doc.

Throughout history, businesses could only regulate themselves by going out of business. Sure there was competition in the beginning, but that ended as soon as somebody won, or the remaining few players agreed to split the suckers, I mean customers, between them. Sometimes literally.

By extolling the pure virtue of deregulation and competition, they caused us to forget all of that.

Ya know, for a supposedly 'thinking' species, we don't do a lot of that.

Deregulation has its benefits and pitfalls. Ideally, government regulation prevents the consumer from being gouged by the supplier/company. But it can limit the amount of competition in the marketplace and the research and development that a truly competitive atmosphere can promote. (R&D is normally focused on how to improve the service and increase marketshare, not the betterment of humanity)

In order for deregulation to suceed, the key is for the conusumer base to be educated on and aware of the choices that are available and the consequences of making those choices. The triple constraint of quality, cost, and speed (time) is ever present. Pick two ... at the expense of the other.

Deregulation means that alot of the responsiblity moves onto the consumer ... and alot of consumers aren't either interested in taking on that responsibility or aware what that shift means.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Deregulation means that alot of the responsiblity moves onto the consumer ... and alot of consumers aren't either interested in taking on that responsibility or aware what that shift means.

They don't make it easy. Ever tried comparing cell phone calling plans?

 

[iztheo]

They don't make it easy. Ever tried comparing cell phone calling plans?

I never said I was an educated consumer ... just that consumers should be educated.

Personally, I avoid cellphones like the plague ... spent 5 years in my last job carrying a pager and a cell 24x7 and now I enjoy making people wait til *I'm* ready to talk to them.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I never said I was an educated consumer ... just that consumers should be educated.

Personally, I avoid cellphones like the plague ... spent 5 years in my last job carrying a pager and a cell 24x7 and now I enjoy making people wait til *I'm* ready to talk to them.

I've gotten rid of my home phone and only use a cell phone. I don't feel the need to answer it all the time, though. Gotta love caller ID.

 

[iztheo]

I've gotten rid of my home phone and only use a cell phone. I don't feel the need to answer it all the time, though. Gotta love caller ID.

Call me a luddite when it comes to personal telecommunications, but I will never give up my landline. My cell never seemed to be charged when I needed it and the sound/voice quality sucks.

Call Display and voicemail, however .... they are completely indespensible for the recluse in me.

 

[cuninglinguist61]

Reagan made only one mistake, and that was about his trickle down economic theory.

MAN, you're generous !!! Only one ?!?!?
I guess that means that you had no problem with :
James Watt
George I
Firing ALL of the air traffic controllers, which then weakened all unions.
Amnesty to all illegal aliens that had been here for five years or more.
Allowing Pat Robertson, Pat Buchanon, Jerry Falwell, et al to be taken seriously.
Iran-Contra

I'm sure there's more, but I've been trying to convince myself that those eight years were all a bad dream. Or a figment of a bad acid trip.

 

[rgraham666]

He turned the world's biggest creditor nation into the world's largest debtor nation. That's was, in my opinion, Reagan's biggest 'accomplishment' after all.

Ya know, if deregulation is such a cool idea, let's deregulate everything. No more laws preventing murder, rape, assault, fraud, etc.

Yeah I know. It will be bad for a while, but once people become properly educated I'm sure life will be perfect and wonderful forever.

I'm done being sarcastic.

Oh and Zoot? The reason it costs eight bucks to use a beach is because we're not paying enough taxes any more to support the infrastructure that keeps the beach clean and neat. More correctly, certain segments of our society, with a great deal of money, are not willing to pay enough taxes for public service to function.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Yeah, in California, we'd be hard-pressed to rally behind deregulation at the moment.

Remember Enron?

Guess who they gouged right before they did their final fuck you to their employees.

Yeah, that's right. Deregulate the energy companies, we'll save money

Price gouging in action, not even bothering to hide it, and the government couldn't have cared less.

 

[iztheo]

Ya know, if deregulation is such a cool idea, let's deregulate everything. No more laws preventing murder, rape, assault, fraud, etc.

Yeah I know. It will be bad for a while, but once people become properly educated I'm sure life will be perfect and wonderful forever.

I'm done being sarcastic.

My goodness ... you really aren't very happy with your long distance carrier are you?

I never said whether deregulation (of a supplier of goods and/or services) is cool or not. Regulation offers stability but not alot of choice. Deregulation can increase competetion but also shifts responsibility onto the consumer. And sometimes, the market and the consumers just aren't ready for it.

What level of involvement a government should have in the way businesses operate and how we live our personal lives is pretty much of a quagmire ... at least to me. I may need the government to prevent us from falling into complete anarchy, but I don't need a federal committe telling me what channels I can and cannot watch on tv. On the other hand, I don't necessarily want the all man-on-man porn station to be situated right beside ToonTV. See ... no easy answers.

 

[rgraham666]

My goodness ... you really aren't very happy with your long distance carrier are you?

I never said whether deregulation (of a supplier of goods and/or services) is cool or not. Regulation offers stability but not alot of choice. Deregulation can increase competetion but also shifts responsibility onto the consumer. And sometimes, the market and the consumers just aren't ready for it.

What level of involvement a government should have in the way businesses operate and how we live our personal lives is pretty much of a quagmire ... at least to me. I may need the government to prevent us from falling into complete anarchy, but I don't need a federal committe telling me what channels I can and cannot watch on tv. On the other hand, I don't necessarily want the all man-on-man porn station to be situated right beside ToonTV. See ... no easy answers.

I know there are no easy answers.

But deregulation was offered as an easy answer. And I used a sarcastic metaphor to illustrate that.

As I said, business cannot regulate itself. It never has and never will. The U.S. had depressions about every fifteen years before modern regulation came into place. Not recessions, depressions. WHAM! A lot of people became poor and the poor were fucked.

I much prefer a reasonably regulated system to the near chaos we have today.

 

[JamesSD]

It was supposed to be good for the consumer, right? Isn't that what Reagan said?

So how come my old, regulated phone bill was $30 and now it's $150? How come all the airlines have folded, and now traveling on a plane is only one step up from travelling tied-up in the trunk of a car? How come all the radio stations are now owned by two companies? How come TV shows are now interrupted by 10-minute commercial breaks? How come I now have to pay $8 to go to a public beach?

Guess who's getting screwed again.

--Zoot

You have to pay $8 to go to a public beach? Ouch!
And uh, what are you using your phone for that it's $150?

 

[Penelope Street]

I know there are no easy answers.

But deregulation was offered as an easy answer. And I used a sarcastic metaphor to illustrate that.

As I said, business cannot regulate itself. It never has and never will. The U.S. had depressions about every fifteen years before modern regulation came into place. Not recessions, depressions. WHAM! A lot of people became poor and the poor were fucked.

I much prefer a reasonably regulated system to the near chaos we have today.

I think what you really want is the dreamy utopia with everybody sharing everything equally, living in the same sized house, making the same amount of money- a chicken in every pot, right? I admit it sounds really nice on paper, but the biggest experiment in socialism to date provided a constant depression, instead of one every fifteen years. No whams, everybody just stayed poor. Lack of incentive leads to lack of perfomance. Sad, yeah- but it always has and I'm pretty sure it always will. I'll take the so-called chaos, thanks.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I think what you really want is the dreamy utopia with everybody sharing everything equally, living in the same sized house, making the same amount of money- a chicken in every pot, right? I admit it sounds really nice on paper, but the biggest experiment in socialism to date provided a constant depression, instead of one every fifteen years. No whams, everybody just stayed poor. Lack of incentive leads to lack of perfomance. Sad, yeah- but it always has and I'm pretty sure it always will. I'll take the so-called chaos, thanks.

Why is it every time someone criticizes the excesses of laizze faire, they are assumed to be communists?

Seriously, there are more than two economic systems and real capitalism is not even the gross monstrosity we call capitalism today.

Curbing monopolies and price-gouging on essential industries like power and water is not the same as saying that all of capitalism needs to be torn down and replaced with socialism.

Jeez, it's annoying already.

 

[Guest]

You have to pay $8 to go to a public beach? Ouch!
And uh, what are you using your phone for that it's $150?

My thoughts exactly.

Just exactly which 900 numbers are ya calling, Zoot?