Depression and pain

[bholderman]

In another thread, Mazuri mentioned a developing interest in spanking, etc and pursuing those things. The funny thing is that I am on the husband relationship in a very nearly identical scnario, my wife recently has been talking about it more, and its in its early stages.

But there is another common thread to the situation. Mazuri mentioned she has rough patches of depression. My wife is into her fourth month after a mental breakdown that she is continuing to struggle with, clinical depression. In fact, after two good weeks, she is now buried in bed.

That said, I realize that an amount of pain, within sex and outside of it results in a "waking up the senses" type of aspect. I sffer soem depression from time to time, and I find tha making a small nick with a knife in my skin, produces a pain for my mind and body to focus on, waking it up in way, helping me deal with the meloncholy.

So the question is this from a standpoint of naivete. Is there a correlation between depression and BDSM? Is it a high or low frequency? Am I correct as to the why they might be connected?

Thought it might make interesting discussion and provide some insight into my wife's head. It would help me help her.

 

[FurryFury]

I suspect you'd find about the same percentage of mental illness is BDSM practitioners as you do in the general public. It's oh so easy to think this is why we get into BDSM but as far as I can tell it's no more borne out than saying having a ball busting mom is why guys become gay. *chuckles*

It's also easy to say BDSM will help heal a mentally ill person. Again, that is dangerous slippery territory IMO.

 

[Blkhearted_Rube]

4 out of 5 Sadists say that BDSM is good for the soul.. (j/k)

 

[bholderman]

I fugured as much. I certainly didn't mean to imply that all folks get into BDSM because they are mentally ill. Rather I do wonder, for some of them, if there is some sort of pain-relief mechanism at work.

I suspect you'd find about the same percentage of mental illness is BDSM practitioners as you do in the general public. It's oh so easy to think this is why we get into BDSM but as far as I can tell it's no more borne out than saying having a ball busting mom is why guys become gay. *chuckles*

It's also easy to say BDSM will help heal a mentally ill person. Again, that is dangerous slippery territory IMO.

 

[Netzach]

I think that it's not surprising when someone is a member of a sexual minority that they be depressed. You have to struggle with negative self-image and you have a harder time connecting with partners who mesh with your sexual needs than people who don't have these issues. I'm definitely happier when I have an outlet than not, and I think this mainly suggests that people who are sexually fulfilled are happier than those who are not, usually.

 

[BiBunny]

I think there's a large percentage of the population who is or claims to be depressed. (I throw in "claims to be" because, let's face it, there are attention-seeking idiots out there.) For that reason, you'll find a good number of people in any subset of folks--gay/lesbian/bi/transsexual, BDSMers, golfers, baseball players, corporate lawyers, etc.--who are or claim to be depressed. I don't think the percentage of people in BDSM who are or claim to be depressed is really any higher than anywhere else.

 

[Pierced_Chick]

I was diagnosed with Bipolar about 5 years ago.
I like to be hurt when depressed. Cut, pierced, tattooed, hit....
Its a way to deal, and if someone you love will help you deal, then hold you, love you and soothe you afterwards, all the better!
I like pain and abuse when manic too, it centres and grounds me.
'Depression' i think is thrown around too much, though only the person suffering knows how bad it really is.

 

[Mazuri]

Mine is cyclical so I know when to watch out for it (it hits hardest the week I'm PMSing). I've struggled with it for years but never admitted what it was and finally let my hubby in on it within the last year. I'm very good at burying my emotions, good or bad. I also think this is why he's been reluctant on some of the more physical things I'd like for him to do as he's afraid it will make things worse.

I wouldn't say that had anything to do with my new interests...rather, I grew up I'm in my late 30's and am more comfortable with myself, my partner, and our relationship together. Things I've said HELL NO to only a few years ago, I've not only tried but now love (like anal). I'm more willing to ask what I want, tell him what works and what doesn't, and explore fantasies than I've ever been.

Perhaps, bholderman, that is where your lady is at now and why she's more willing to explore?

 

[alexanna]

Well all I can say is when I'm depressed I am much more likely to spank myself (since I have no one to do it for me). When I am depressed I fantasize about it ALOT and how much better I would feel if someone would just spank me then cuddle me afterwards.

When it finally gets bad enough I get back on the prozac but I would much rather just be whipped and fucked then have to take little green capsules that make you feel pretty dumb and empty after an extended period on them (at least they do me).

 

[bholderman]

Mazuri,

You mentioned a small aspect that my wife and her doctors are coming to a conclusion. They have been re-diagnosing a pattern just before her period (or PMS). Rather its a sever form of PMS called PMDD. rather than the typical melancholy, bitchiness, etc, the sympotom are more violent and/or suicidal. A quick google search can find it rather easily.

Mazuri, looking through your posts, I had to check your profile just to make sure you weren't my wife. You are her mirror image.

I agree with your conclusions. The hard part is reacting and adjusting to them, which I am willing to do.

Mine is cyclical so I know when to watch out for it (it hits hardest the week I'm PMSing). I've struggled with it for years but never admitted what it was and finally let my hubby in on it within the last year. I'm very good at burying my emotions, good or bad. I also think this is why he's been reluctant on some of the more physical things I'd like for him to do as he's afraid it will make things worse.

I wouldn't say that had anything to do with my new interests...rather, I grew up I'm in my late 30's and am more comfortable with myself, my partner, and our relationship together. Things I've said HELL NO to only a few years ago, I've not only tried but now love (like anal). I'm more willing to ask what I want, tell him what works and what doesn't, and explore fantasies than I've ever been.

Perhaps, bholderman, that is where your lady is at now and why she's more willing to explore?

 

[Mazuri]

Hehehe, somehow I doubt I'm your wife

I've not heard of PMDD but will do some research. I can usually feel it when it starts and know when it's about to get bad and do some mental exercises to stave off the worst of it. I've not had a really bad episode since about March other than (unfortunately) when my hubby was home in June.

I've found that a better diet and exercise has helped a bit and having a wonderfully supportive hubby has helped a lot. He's learned some of my "cover up" tactics so he knows when to push and find out what's bothering me. I have also become more comfortable in telling him "hey, I'm not feeling so good. Help?"

As for the new interest in BDSM, it's only sort of new. We dabbled a bit when we first got married, but I was horrible at talking to him about what I wanted and needed and as the years passed, it only got worse. Now things are better, communication flows more, and I'm more comfortable in saying what I want/need. I've realized I want to try new things because I can't really say I don't like them until I have

 

[bobsgirl]

I have trouble with clinical depression, and I have for probably the whole of my adult life. Only in the past three years have I asked for, and received help. I really doubt that my interest in BDSM has much to do with depression. I've only acknowledged my inner sub in the last year or so, and depression is a much older "friend" than that.

 

[Puman]

Interesting thread....
I don't suffer from depression (though I have been called 'satan' when I'm PMSsy ), so I can't really equate my need for pain with any kind of therapy or 'fix' (for lack of a better word). I simply derive pleasure from it and it spices up my sex life.
This thread did get me wondering if there was perhaps a link between a 'pain-high' and relieving those feelings of depression....could the endorphins (spelling?) balance out the chemicals/hormones related to depression? I'm not a doctor, so I hope I have made sense here....
I'm in no way saying it's a 'cure', 'treatment' or reason for people to start practicing BDSM.... It's just a thought...

 

[bholderman]

Puman,

That was my thought. Yes, I know everyone in bdsm isn't a clinical depressed person, but I have read a number of threads (especially women) that a developed interest in pain during sex, clinical depression has been always an underlying current in their posts.

Personally, I do think pain in some respects generates some amount of focus back into the mental framework and the body as a whole. I've read of 19th century sailors working aloft in freezing conditions. They did head for a stove or anything, nor did they put on gloves. They beat their hands against anything to point of bleeding just to get the blood moving and sensation back.

Pain shouldn't be equated with a bad thing. It has its purpose...

Interesting thread....
I don't suffer from depression (though I have been called 'satan' when I'm PMSsy ), so I can't really equate my need for pain with any kind of therapy or 'fix' (for lack of a better word). I simply derive pleasure from it and it spices up my sex life.
This thread did get me wondering if there was perhaps a link between a 'pain-high' and relieving those feelings of depression....could the endorphins (spelling?) balance out the chemicals/hormones related to depression? I'm not a doctor, so I hope I have made sense here....
I'm in no way saying it's a 'cure', 'treatment' or reason for people to start practicing BDSM.... It's just a thought...

 

[Arianna22]

Hi,
I started a thread awhile back asking if other people wanted more extreme things when stressed.... and people then said it was probably the need for endorphins.

Its the same again recently. I've been suffering from clinical depression for 4 years now and in the last month I have been stressed beyond all recongition (serious deadlines) and consequently my sex drive and desire to be submissive has gone all over the place. First it was all I thought about, then I didnt want to be touched at all, then I was too tired and now I'm back round to the start again.

I think the depression and the stress makes me want to think about other things, or not have to 'think' at all. Being submissive and doing whatever someone else wants me to do, or them making the decsions makes things easier for me, hence the desire increasing.

I hope that makes sense, and I hope that my increased desire stays there once the extra stress is gone!

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

just my own experience with depression...

I used to live in depression for a long long time and its not so long when i start getting better. I was on pills so i could excist somehow. I was nubm and totaly empty. I left all my friends and stop meet everybody including my family.

When my husband left me for another woman i broke down. When i look into the mirror i saw nuthing than a broken man. I was shocked when i saw my pale eyes and the empty expression of so happy girl i used to be before.

I build a great wall around me and wasnt willing to let anybody come in. I had a really hard time to care of my lil girl that time. Most of the care of my girl did my mum and i must say my girl loves her more than me now. It hurts but i understand her, she needed me and i failed as a mum. I wasnt usuable.

I wasnt able to work either for a long time. My doc let me home to gatter myself somehow. I used to sleep some nasty hourz, most of the day really and i still felt i dont have enough. I started taking more pills, i doubled what i was suppose to use and still didnt feel better.

That time i wished someone come around and notice i needed a help, but it ddint happened. My own family thought i was just being a lazy fuck who sleep all the day instead of taking a care of my girl. Just my mum saw my tears and the missery i was in. The rest thought i am worth of shit and somehow i think they still think the same.

With time i found me a job as a postman. I used to do that job before so it wasnt a prob for me to accept it and give it a try again. I was so sure i can handle it and for some time i did. But then they moved me to place where i wasnt able to do my job in time. Well for them it doesnt matter if i worked 7 hourz or 14. As long as i did what had to be done i would keep that job, but i wasnt able to work so many hourz every day.

I tryed, but with time it become so frustrating to see all my mates go home after 7 hourz when i was forced to work for 12-14. I fell back into depression and i was worst on it than ever before.

I was just working and sleeping. I get up at 4am start work at 5 and was back home about 8pm sometimes even later.

I tryed to keep that job, cuz of the cash. I needed that income, but with time i give up. I had to admit i cannot handle that job anymore. Job i used to do for 5 years before, i couldnt handle it now.

I felt i am good for nuthing, cant take care of nuthing including my little girl and myself as well. I used to come home from my job, fall on the bed and cry, cry for hourz. I was so dissapointed by myself. I had to admit i cant live this way anymore.

The next day i didnt go to my job and just let them kick me. I didnt mind of that job anymore and i stoped care if i am gona wake up the next day either. As i start taking more and more those pills i slept more and more.

It was only thing i really loved. Being buried in my bed. Alone. Alone with my thougths wich was rather scary if just someone knew what was on my mind. One day i decied i am much better if i fall asleep and dont wake up anymore.

I took much more of my pills and then i was just laying there and crying, thinking if i am gona wake up the next morning or not. I was sorry for my mum and my girl but i knew she loves my mum more than me so i knew she will be much better with her than shes with me.

I worte SMS to my mum to my mobile in case i didnt wake up and then i was waiting. I felt such a pain nobody noticed i needed a help, just bit of love really.

Well i did wake up, i slept for hoooours but i wake up. I wasnt sure if i was happy about it or not tho. Few dayz after i met my exhusband and we had a talk. Somehow he wanted me back. First i was afraid to accept him, but then i remebered how shit i felt without him and said yes to him and moved back to him.

I wasnt sure of his love for me, but i knew i needed "someone" + my girl needed her daddy. Its just 5 months since i moved to him, so i still remeber the shits i went thro very well.

I spoke with my man and told him i was on pills so i could live somehow. He loughed at me, said if i am mental to need that shit. I told him i am not, i just felt so bad after he left me i couldnt take that pain. I told him i tryed kill myself once plus how many times and how many plans i had on give it try again.

He went sad and said he's sorry he made me feel that way. Told me he's back now and that i won't need those pills anymore. I throw those pills away the day after and since that day i am not using it.

I am kinda ok now i would say. Not the same happy girl i used to be, but at least i dont need those pills anymore. I am still having a weak dayz tho and i am getting back into the deep depression way too easy.

Its not easy with me sometimes. I am usualy ok, but when i go thro some rough time i am down in no time. And i mean really down. Wanna die and things like that.

Sometimes i am wondering if i ever will be the same as i was before it all started and i dunno. I am tryin and i am thankful my ex took me back, i needed him more than he can imagine.

Knowing i am loved was what set me free. I always knew it was just love what i needed, but how do you wanna make someone love you? It just wasn't possbile. So simple thing and so hard to get it. Well we are back together now and i can just hope he won't ever leave me again, cuz i dunno what i would do then.



Here is my advice for you and your wife :

Most of the depressed people just needs to know theres "someone" who does care about them, someone who really loves them. When you listen to depressed person its just pure cries for help, nuthing else. Nobody heard mine, my friends failed and so did my family, excpet my mum who did understand what i am goin thro but didn't know how to get me outta those shits.

Listen to your wife, truly listen i mean. Once you will she will open up to you and tell you what trouble her mind and soul and you will be able to help her then.

You ask if BDSM could help?
Well from my side of view i felt so hurt inside when i was depressed that the last thing i needed was physical pain as well. I was in constant pain as most of depressed peeps are.

They aint taking their lifes for fun, but because they can't stand the pain anymore. Everyone should have the special "someone" who would be there for them when they down as your wife acording to what you said about her being in the bed all the time etc etc.

My advice for you is to pay a good attention to what she do, how she talk and what she saying to you. Trust me depressed peeps do look for help, but they will let you help them only if they see you really listen to them. If you listen=you really care.

If you don't know how to listen to your wife you better learn it fast cuz i really think you are the one who she needs the most atm. I know how hard it's to deal with depressed person.

Their moods chaning in seconds from very happy to being numb and wanna die shit. Thats also why i stoped meet my friends. I didnt want to bother them with my fucked up moods, but i so needed some of them to truly care if i was ok or not.

People will usualy let you down when you need them the most, thats what life have teach me.

Take a good care of your wife, be her safe harbor, let her feel you are there for her no matter what you going thro. Love her, i know its very hard to do when she's like this, but keep showing her your love and care. Try get closer to her, but do not force her to open up to you, she gota want that by herself.

If you are patient with her she will tell you whats going on with her and why she feels the way she do. She might say she dunno, but deep inside she knows, trust me. Just be patient and give her time to accept you as her comforter, she deffo needs one. She maybe dunno ask for it, but she needs you, she need you bad.

This thread you started showing me you really care about her cuz you are looking for a way how to help her. I dont really think BDSM is what she needs atm tbh. Depression = alot of intense pain and i don't think she long for more, i think she's looking for a way how to get ride of that pain.

I hope what i said will help you somehow. Let your love be the cure for your wife!!

good luck, i hope your wife will be better soon!



~Kate

 

[bholderman]

Kate,

I appreciate the comments, as from everyone else as well. One reason for the inquiry was that I noticed that, not just with sex, but with other things that she has put off for a long time (i.e. a trip to Las Vegas, a tatoo, etc.) seems to have had some degree of "appeasement" to her, at least temporarily. Getting the tattoo seem to kick her sex drive into hyperspeed, 2 plus 2, she admitted to enjoying a bit of pain during sex.

It is quite possible that her finally pursuing those things after so long and the depression are two different aspects of her mental state. But, reading a number of other threads where women (primarily for some reason?) seem to be going through nearly the same situations, caused me to think.

I have to admit, the end result is a bit of a turn on. But there is that how far does it go or what next factor?

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Well if she admit she would like a bit of pain during the sex than give it to her, but be careful and take it slow with her. I dunno how bad your wife is on it with her depression, but if she's intressted in sex it's deffo a good sign.

It can make her feel nice and relaxed, actualy i think a good sex could help her cuz it releases endorphins wich will make her feel happy and i really think thats what depressed person needs the most, at least i did.

There were times when i wasn't intrested in sex in all, but with time i get better and was enjoying those little happy moments bigtime. I found me a friend with who i was in contact over the net and i loved when he was giving it to me.

I was more than willing to let him that time. He told me i am one horny bitch, i told him i just prefer to feel high from my ogasms instead of being sad. He knew it and enjoyed it his own way, i just needed those happy moments and i loved to feel happy, at least for a little while.

Very soon i was addicted to his attention and to him giving it to me. I was looking for help, wanted feel better and this was deffo one of ways wich made me feel better.

Understand depressed person isn't easy. Their thoughts wanders to lonely cold places you cannot imagine as long you do not feel that way.

I spend a long time browsing sites about depressed peeps. About peeps wich was like me and i was shocked when i found out how much i understand them. I didnt want too, it was scary, but i did. I understand them too well, i still do.

I think nobody can understand this untill you taste the poison of depression. You see things way different then, very different.

You feel like nobody loves you and those who does do that only cuz they feel sorry for you. You so need "someone" to be there for you, understand you, care for you, but at the same time you know its the only thing you wont get. Simply just cuz you need it that bad and wishes just rarely comes true, at least mine.

In many ways i am still tempted to feel this way, i gota control my thoughts and acting, so i wouldn't hurt those who i love. I am much better than i was, but i am surely not over it yet.

When things go wrong i feel it. I know whats on my mind when things go wrong. I know how i feel deep inside then and whats on my mind. Its still nuthing nice, nuthing peeps wanna hear or could ever understand.



Back to your wife...

If she asked for a bit of pain then you should give it to her, but have on mind her reactions might be different than what you expect. Its just cuz of her state of mind.

I really think she will feel everything more intense than she would if she was ok. Take it slow, but go for it. If she admited she would like it give a try.

Get what she's longing for will help her feel better and you can be part of it whats very good i think. It will make her feel thankful to you if you know what i mean? Like you gave her something she REALLY needed, that's why.

Once she will feel nice and relaxed she might start revealing you why she feels the way she does and you can sort things out then. Ya know, she's not feeling depressed without a reason. There's something what make her feel this way, there's a reason for it and she know what it is.

If you wanna help your wife you should find out what it is. You can have fun during it if she's up for it as well, but do not push her into something, never.

You could make things much worst. Talk to her, communication is a big help. I couldn't really talk about the way i felt with peeps i had around me, but i wished i could.

Now i have someone who undertstands me and all it takes to feel better it's just tell it to him and then talk it out. How simple thing and how hard to get it when you really need it...

I like this quote, think its very true. "When someone faces depression, those on the outside often have a great deal of trouble understanding why."

Talk to your wife. Take the time with her and listen to her, listen very well. Once you will-you will find out how easy it is to make your wife feel better



~Kate

 

[Pythoness]

Bholderman, you mentioned a couple times noticing more women than men seem to suffer from depression or bring it up in their posts here. I wonder if that could be a case of women being more likely than men to talk about depression? I don't mean to generalize, clearly that's not true of ALL men or ALL women. It's just been my experience that we seem to want to talk out our emotions more often than men do.

Rather I do wonder, for some of them, if there is some sort of pain-relief mechanism at work.

There may be a pain-relief factor for some people but then again I think it's natural to seek out things that bring you comfort and pleasure when you're in emotional pain. Sex is certainly one of those things, whether vanilla or otherwise.

I have to admit, the end result is a bit of a turn on. But there is that how far does it go or what next factor?

As far as you both want it to go. I think you guys will have a great time exploring and deciding what's next on the menu!

Just my two cents.

 

[HB1965]

Depression

I've been diagnosed with Major Depression. Medication has helped this, but I still maintain my desire to be out there on the edge with my sexuality. I've never been vanilla at any point. Even from a very young age I imagined sex as being kinky even when I really didn't know anything about it. I've always been submissive in some ways.

I think I have to agree with the idea that you will find people with depression when they've been a part of a minority

 

[Homburg]

Both of my gals have strong self-destructive urges when depressed. One used to act on those urges, and the other just thought about them mostly. She'd done some minor damage to herself here and there, but nothing serious. In both of their cases, they've come to me at one time or another needing pain.

The short decription is that depression can cause numbness, and make the person doubt whether or not they are actually alive, actually feeling. Pain, sheer physical pain, can circumvent that numbness. Pain can make you feel alive again, remind you that you are real, and that the fuzzy surreality surrounding your life is just your emotions.

In dealing with "v", she can get to feeling very worthless, and her issues revolve around self-worth. I cuddle and love, and I also spank and flog. It depends on what she needs. "w" is a bit more complex, and requires more careful treatment. *shrug* I do what I can. I figure that it is better if I hurt them than they hurt themselves. Safer, better controlled, etc.

The interesting thing for me was learning that I am the same way. While I can't even remotely imagine asking someone else to hurt me, I've found that I seek pain as readily as my gals do. In my case, I seek it through the physical activities I enjoy. None of the sports or forms of exercise I enjoy are easy, and most involve a pain as a core part of the experience. Martial arts and boxing were favourites for a good while, and I would not work with a group that did not do contact sparring, the heavier the better. I trailride with my mountainbike, and the days I am the most emotionally wound up are the days I ride the sloppiest. I realised that I get satisfaction of the bumps, scratches, spills, and hard hits. I destroyed myself on the trail a few months back, and was so deeply emotionally satisfied with it that I was smug about it. My primary physical outlet, however, is lifting weights, and I always do so hard and heavy, and am left sore as the dickens for days afterwards. I enjoy the soreness as much as the lifting.

It was weird for me, because I didn't understand why my ladies wanted pain. I just gave it to them because they enjoyed it, and needed it. then I realised that I was seeking pain too, just not in the same way. It caused me to examine the root causes behind my actions, and realise that there is a bit of the masochist in me too, as well as probably some depression too. I'm just too damned much of the Dominant Male Monkey to acknowledge it.

The bad part is that the ladies know, so whenever I go out trail-riding they cluck and worry like mother hens. They've even gone so far as to pester me to make sure that I wasn't going out to exorcise my demons.

Went out today to hit the trails, with my leg feeling like they were worked over by baseball bats from my lower-body workout thursday night. Had a couple of bumps, and one good spill that tore the hell outta my right shin. *shrug* I didn't need the pain today. It just happened because trail conditions were rough. I'm not unhappy about the pain though. It reminds me that I'm human, even if I don't need the reminder right now =)

 

[VelvetDarkness]

My Master get depressed every now and again and he can never explain why. He finds it very hard to talk about his feelings and we've sometimes been up all night just so he can blurt out whatever the heart of the matter is at 4am.

Personally I know that I get a buzz from the endorphine rush of pain and if your wife does too I'd say it's a healthy outlet. You don't say whether she's getting any form of therapy. The worst thing any clinically depressed person can do is hibernate in bed. She really needs to motivate herself to take positive steps, to do one thing that cheers her up every day, whether that be a walk in the park or calling a good friend for a chat.

Some people find that keeping a diary helps them to evaluate how they feel on a given day and learn from the patterns and triggers that show up over time. Is there any form of medical treatment for her PMDD? Maybe even something she can take at that time of the month to alleviate her symptoms. I hope she's had a general gyno check also to make sure no physical problem is affecting her hormone levels.

 

[bholderman]

Greetings all,

A busy week kept me from the computer, but I wanted to let you all know I appreciate the feedback. As some of you mentioned its hard stating something without it sounding like an over-generalization.

 

[alexanna]

Is there any form of medical treatment for her PMDD? Maybe even something she can take at that time of the month to alleviate her symptoms. I hope she's had a general gyno check also to make sure no physical problem is affecting her hormone levels.

I was diagnosed with PMDD after I had my first child and took Sarafem (which is just a new brand name for guess what? PROZAC). It worked for me and you only have to take it a few days a month but it is hell on my libido.

If the spankings work they might be a better option, just depends how bad it is and how it affects her. Besides my libido dropping to zero I experience no other side effects from prozac. I don't like it long term though.....I'm addicted to my highs and like to have them on occasion.

 

[SheDevilShay]

I get depression... I found that the more spankings I get when I start getting depressed.. the faster it stops happening...

Spanking can help lesson depression and anxiety.... *shrugs* I could only say because it releases endorphins that can help counter something that might be off balance in your head... you could theoretically take pills for it... but why bother when a daily spanking keeps you sane?