Dem's Distraught Dilemma...

[amicus]

Twenty four hours since the polls closed in Pennsylvania and not a post of the AH?

Four years ago, if memory serves, y'all were touting Kerry as the best thing since sliced bread.

Where are you now?

Neither Clinton nor Obama can win the 2025 at large delegates to secure the nomination in the remaining primary elections.

Pundits say Obama, after the last primary, will have more delegates and more votes cast than Clinton and will have won more States.

Super delegates (back room politicians) hold the key to the nomination along with the undecided Michigan and Florida primary results which were not counted.

One side says it can not be permitted to continue until the August Convention or it will tear the Party apart.

The other side says if the Super delegates give it to Clinton as more likely to win in November, it will tear the Party apart.

It doesn't really matter. Neither one can win against McCain, unless he dies of old age before November.

Primaries are run and voted in by party activists and radicals. The left wing of the Dems, just had to have a woman and a black as candidates to demonstrate just how equitable they were.

Oh, my.

First...there will one day be a woman and a black Vice President first and then, maybe, another generation down the road...when the Right woman or black man appears, then maybe a woman or a black Commander in Chief.

Not now and not these two.

Look for a landslide election in November and eight more years of Republican control. They may even regain the Senate and make gains in the House.

How ya like them apples?

Amicus...

 

[voluptuary_manque]

That's my current assessment as well, though I'm not sure about the landslide aspects of it. Personally, I'd like the White House and one of the Houses of Congress in one party's hands and the other House in the other's. That way gridlock would be ensured and the damned government couldn't bother me for at least two years.

 

[amicus]

This election cycle has become rather tiresome, has it not?

ami

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Ami, they all are!

 

[amicus]

Yeah, I guess, unless you have a horse in the race...grins...

ami

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I first voted when I turned 21. That year I voted against Reagan. I haven't voted for anyone since. It really would be nice to be able to do so, some day, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sigh!

 

[DesertPirate]

Gee VM, I voted for Ford because he could work with Congress. Voted for Reagan because Carter was such a joke, scary when wearing the Uniform
Voted in every election since.

Tiresome is because this group of primadonnas started this mess over a year ago. If anyone shows up in November to vote it will be a miracle. Everyone will be so sick of the whole thing.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Gee VM, I voted for Ford because he could work with Congress. Voted for Reagan because Carter was such a joke, scary when wearing the Uniform
Voted in every election since.

Tiresome is because this group of primadonnas started this mess over a year ago. If anyone shows up in November to vote it will be a miracle. Everyone will be so sick of the whole thing.

Oh, sorry. I voted against Reagan for governor of California! By the time he ran against Carter I voted against Carter.

What I really want is a ballot that allows me to choose one proposition and vote NO on all the candidates.

 

[S-Des]

It doesn't really matter. Neither one can win against McCain, unless he dies of old age before November.

That's too bold a statement. I love Johnny Mac, but there is every possibility that between now and then he will say something to piss off enough Conservatives that they'll stay home, or enough Moderates (trying to suck up to the Conservatives) that they'll go for Obama instead. Never underestimate almost everyone's desire to get the race thing behind us (at least a little), so many would vote for Obama if he would just stop shooting himself in the foot (even if they disagree with his politics).

I'm still just flabbergasted at what the Democrats have done with their primaries. Hillary has won every big state except Illinois, yet has no hope of catching Obama. The Republicans were faced with the same Florida/Michigan dilemma, but managed to not completely gaffe it. I just heard a report that 7 weeks later, the Texas delegates still are not decided. Hillary won the popular vote by 3%, but will walk away with less delegates, but no one knows how long it will take for them to figure out the math. I grew up a Democrat, in a union household. At this point I can't imagine crossing back over to register as a Democrat again (although it's not like I'm in love with the Republicans either....I really am a man without a party ).

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

Yep, The Democrats stepped in shit with Obama and Hillary. However it gets decided civil war is almost guaranteed in the party.

It's McCain's election to lose.

But with the nation poised to slide into a Depression it would be better for a Democrat to be President.

 

[amicus]

[QUO

TE=JAMESBJOHNSON;26988203]AMICUS

Yep, The Democrats stepped in shit with Obama and Hillary. However it gets decided civil war is almost guaranteed in the party.

It's McCain's election to lose.

But with the nation poised to slide into a Depression it would be better for a Democrat to be President.

[/QUOTE]

~~~

Wrong JBJ totally, irrevocably wrong.

There isn't room and I no longer have the patience to explain the roots of the great depression but essentially it happened because of collective interference with the market place and a learning curve concerning stock market functions and should have been a mild recession of investment capital and retooling for the coming age of the automobile.

I say that because FDR, still seen as the great saviour, bringing the US out of the depression, did no such thing.

As I recall, you confessed to being one of those bright young minds seduced by socialism as you ventured into the grown up world but realized the error of your ways and adopted more rational political views as you matured. Happens a lot, nothing to be ashamed of.

Aside from the fact that many of the Roosevelt administrations socialist plans were abolished as unconstitutional by the Surpreme Court and never implemented. Further, all the 'make work' programs, putting the unemployed to work digging holes and filling them in again, added nothing to the economy as their wages were paid by confiscating tax money from those who had money.

Economics is called the 'dry science' and it surely is, but even a little research will prove to you that America was still deep into the recession in 1940 as world war two was looming on the horizon.

Factories, mines and mills were shut down as there was no demand for consumer products. Only when war was declared and the industrial base was set to work building tanks, airplanes, guns and ammunition and the government forcefully drafted hundreds of thousands of young men into the military did the 'depression' begin to wane.

A depression is not forthcoming and electing democrats will only guarantee that the recession spreads and perhaps fatally injures what remains of the motive force, the free economy, of this nation.

It is time the Democrat party dissolved and disintegrated. I suggest it will splinter into a European styled socialist party and a more moderate 'opposition' party, like a woman in a marriage, knocking the rough edges off the more masculine right wing party, call it Conservative or Republican, which ever is more faithful to principles of a free market economy, fidelity to the Constitution and protective of human and property rights.

The upcoming election is not McCain's to lose and that is somewhat because of people like you, converts to human freedom who waver when the future is on the line. There are too, too many like LT and a host of others ready to jump in and manage and control your life, the environment, the business and industrial world to mold society as they see it through their corrupted eyes.

So buck up laddie, grow some cojones and stand up to these week kneed wimps, your assistance would be appreciated.

Amicus...

 

[DesertPirate]

Something I found and also put on the Obama thread:

“Remember the election in 2006? Thought you might like to read the following. A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

“Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

“America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!”

- Author unknown -- Chuck Muth's News & Views - April 18, 2008

 

[amicus]

A year and a half, almost, of Dem control of the House and the Senate and you catalog the results well.

However...I do not see McCain, or any other Republican with sufficient power, expressing ideas, plans, programs that will change anything.

Perhaps, just perhaps, another Republican President, along with a Republican House and Senate, can remove enough of the restrictions and regulations to begin allowing the corporate energy giants to begin to solve the crisis and get back on the road to making America independent once again in the energy field.

Build those Nukes! Drill in ANWAR and any place with even a scent of oil, including offshore Caleeeeeefornia, Florida and the entire east coast.

Maybe...must maybe... sighs....

amicus...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

Cajones? You want balls? You ask a lot my friend. Youre a modern Diogenes looking for a man with balls.

It will be better if a Democrat is President and takes the blame, is what I meant to say.

FDR used much of what Hoover proposed, but which the Democrats wouldnt pass in Congress while Hoover was around.

 

[Boxlicker101]

[QUO

~~~

Wrong JBJ totally, irrevocably wrong.

There isn't room and I no longer have the patience to explain the roots of the great depression but essentially it happened because of collective interference with the market place and a learning curve concerning stock market functions and should have been a mild recession of investment capital and retooling for the coming age of the automobile.

I say that because FDR, still seen as the great saviour, bringing the US out of the depression, did no such thing.

As I recall, you confessed to being one of those bright young minds seduced by socialism as you ventured into the grown up world but realized the error of your ways and adopted more rational political views as you matured. Happens a lot, nothing to be ashamed of.

Aside from the fact that many of the Roosevelt administrations socialist plans were abolished as unconstitutional by the Surpreme Court and never implemented. Further, all the 'make work' programs, putting the unemployed to work digging holes and filling them in again, added nothing to the economy as their wages were paid by confiscating tax money from those who had money.

Economics is called the 'dry science' and it surely is, but even a little research will prove to you that America was still deep into the recession in 1940 as world war two was looming on the horizon.

Factories, mines and mills were shut down as there was no demand for consumer products. Only when war was declared and the industrial base was set to work building tanks, airplanes, guns and ammunition and the government forcefully drafted hundreds of thousands of young men into the military did the 'depression' begin to wane.

A depression is not forthcoming and electing democrats will only guarantee that the recession spreads and perhaps fatally injures what remains of the motive force, the free economy, of this nation.

It is time the Democrat party dissolved and disintegrated. I suggest it will splinter into a European styled socialist party and a more moderate 'opposition' party, like a woman in a marriage, knocking the rough edges off the more masculine right wing party, call it Conservative or Republican, which ever is more faithful to principles of a free market economy, fidelity to the Constitution and protective of human and property rights.

The upcoming election is not McCain's to lose and that is somewhat because of people like you, converts to human freedom who waver when the future is on the line. There are too, too many like LT and a host of others ready to jump in and manage and control your life, the environment, the business and industrial world to mold society as they see it through their corrupted eyes.

So buck up laddie, grow some cojones and stand up to these week kneed wimps, your assistance would be appreciated.

Amicus...[/QUOTE]

Are you sure of your timeline here? The Great Depression is generally conceded to have begun in 1929, and FDR didn't become pres. until 1933. That means Hoover was pres. for the first three plus years.

I have said repeatedly that the first female president will be VP first, and will either take over on the death of the pres. or will run for and win election on her own after he has finished his term, either four years withoug running for reelection or eight years. I also think the same thing will happen RE the first non-white president.

 

[EroticDiamond]

I am in agreement with the first female president should be vice president. Hadn't thought of that before but I am new at all this political stuff.

 

[slyc_willie]

This election cycle has become rather tiresome, has it not?

ami

It's probably a function of increased media doggedness, but I can't remember an election receiving this much coverage.

Funny. It always seemed to me that either, a), there would be a female candidate for the presidency, or b) there would be a black man shooting for office. But now we have both. The novelty of both, combined with the horse race and sound bytes and the dog and pony show normally associated with elections, has confounded things more than they have clarified them. The novelty has passed. Now we see the character.

And with character . . . *sigh* . . . the attacks.

And the counterattacks.

It could have been a truly monolithic race. It could have been a politcal Clash of the Titans. Instead . . . it's just day-old hashed browns and scrambled eggs, reheated and served up again and again.

I doubt anyone's going to win this race. Not McCain, not Hillary, not Obama.

Sure as hell not the American people.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I think people are reading this wrong. McCain will most likely be the next president, not because he's going to run against either a woman or a black. It's really different than that.

A year ago, Hillary Clinton was a shoe-in for president, no matter who she ran against (Thanks, George W.). Then out of the bushes came Obama. "Who the fuck is he?" I was asking. That the same question most people were asking at the time. But that was the wrong question. The question that people should have been asking was, "Doesn't he have a clue what the hell he's doing?"

So what was he doing? Splitting the party, just as effectively as Ross Perot did a few years ago to get a Republican elected. So now the words from the DNC are, it doesn't make any difference who the candidate is, people will still vote for the democratic candidate. Bullshit!

Obviously, someone up there ain't listening to the exit polls. If Obama is not the candidate, Clinton will not get his voters - McCain will. If Obama is the candidate, he won't get Clinton's.

Agreed, Obama stuts and waves and wrangles his crowds just like a Southern Baptist Minister on a roll, putting on a pretty good show. But just like the Sunday preacher screaming hell fire and brimstone, he doesn't seem to have much of substance to offer.

Clinton has her own problems - Bill for one. But I'd chose her over either Obama or McCain. So she'll raise taxes. (Shrug) But she does have one thing going for her that Obama doesn't - long-time, loyal friends where friends are needed to get bills passed in the House and Senate.

Thanks, Obama, ya Dumb Ass. Four more years (at least) of bullshit Bush policies.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I am in agreement with the first female president should be vice president. Hadn't thought of that before but I am new at all this political stuff.

Well I don't mean it is a requirement. I mean it will work out that way.

 

[slyc_willie]

Agreed, Obama stuts and waves and wrangles his crowds just like a Southern Baptist Minister on a roll, putting on a pretty good show. But just like the Sunday preacher screaming hell fire and brimstone, he doesn't seem to have much of substance to offer.

That deserves a (solemn) Amen.

Months ago, I spoke with a middle-aged couple who had ben to Obama's rally here in SA. They went on and on about how inspirational he was, about how, after the show inside the theater, he came out to speak to those who could not get a seat inside. I casually asked what he said that had inspired them. They just continued to espose how 'inspirational' he was. No details.

Slightly related note: Pastor John Hagee is a San Antonio-based preacher with a weekly radio address. I've listened to him; he has the gift of speaking, of that I can attest. Not too long ago, he invited Sen. Huckabee to deliver a sermon.

A man I work with used to run a little Itlaian bistro just down the street from Hagee's ministry. Every Sunday after worship, Hagee would come in with a group of young ladies, none even close to thirty. Hagee would take his seat, tie a napkin around his neck, and wait for his meal. It was always the same: Eight meatballs in meat sauce, no pasta. He'd duck his head down and spoon-feed the entirety of the meal into his mouth without looking up once.

My friend has pictuires

Just goes to show . . . you can lead a horse to pasture, but you can't show him how to eat.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It's probably a function of increased media doggedness, but I can't remember an election receiving this much coverage.

Funny. It always seemed to me that either, a), there would be a female candidate for the presidency, or b) there would be a black man shooting for office. But now we have both. The novelty of both, combined with the horse race and sound bytes and the dog and pony show normally associated with elections, has confounded things more than they have clarified them. The novelty has passed. Now we see the character.

And with character . . . *sigh* . . . the attacks.

And the counterattacks.

It could have been a truly monolithic race. It could have been a politcal Clash of the Titans. Instead . . . it's just day-old hashed browns and scrambled eggs, reheated and served up again and again.

I doubt anyone's going to win this race. Not McCain, not Hillary, not Obama.

Sure as hell not the American people.

For one thing, it has been going on for over a year, and isn't even close to being done yet. That is unusual. For another, there is no incumbent pres. of VP running for the first time since 1952.

There have been black candidates and female candidates before, but they were not really serious candidates. None of them came close to winning a nomination.

JJ, I don't know what history books you are reading, but Ross Perot helped defeat the incumbent Bush and elect Clinton in 1992. Without him, Slick Willie probably would not have been elected.

Six months ago, McCain was written off as dead in the water. Personally, I think he will win one of the biggest landslides in history. The Dem candidate will win DC and maybe MA and maybe his or her home state, but that's all. That's barring any unforeseen circumstance.

 

[S-Des]

I
Agreed, Obama stuts and waves and wrangles his crowds just like a Southern Baptist Minister on a roll, putting on a pretty good show. But just like the Sunday preacher screaming hell fire and brimstone, he doesn't seem to have much of substance to offer.

It's interesting that you say this. Something has been nagging at me for a while and I finally put my finger on it the other day. Obama's speech patterns and charisma are much like someone else who I didn't really care for....Mike Huckabee. He definitely has picked up some of his speaking skills from his pastor because on stage he looks a lot like a televangelist. I don't agree that he doesn't have anything of substance, I think he's hiding it (intentionally). I don't know how much stock should really be put in his minister, his minor friendship with Ayers (although it does extend back quite a ways), or other missteps he's made during the campaign. However, I've been hearing more and more people who were favorable towards him start to doubt that he is who he says he is. It's all guesswork and I won't denigrate him because I have no idea who he is (despite the fact that he's been on my political radar for about 12 years). I don't believe that's an accident, I think he realized a long time ago that his best bet was to speak in platitudes and depend on his charisma to win, rather than be a hawk on the issues.

Like her or not, you know where Hillary is coming from and how she'll behave in the office. Although I've despised Bill for a long time, I'd be OK with her as a President, as long as she wasn't given a blank check (I still think her healthcare plan would be a disaster). I think she's issue oriented and would surround herself with good people. She would be careful on issues because she knows too well how tenuous that job can be and would do what she could to make herself look as good as possible (including being a little cautious with economic proposals and foreign policy). Obama could turn out to be a great president (he certainly has the market cornered on turning public opinion, which is a really important part), but he could also be a catastrophe (dwarfing Carter). I don't see that possibility with Hillary or McCain (and that whole, "4 more years of Bush" thing is tired....he's nothing like Bush, which is why he's despised by the Right).

 

[S-Des]

I am in agreement with the first female president should be vice president. Hadn't thought of that before but I am new at all this political stuff.

It definitely isn't a matter of "should", but I'm hearing some talk that McCain may go with one of a couple different women candidates. He really can't pick a black man because it would be howled at by the Left as a cynical political ploy. My personal choice would be Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, who would be an outstanding candidate and add some serious talent to the ticket. I'm just sorry that Bush decided on Cheney rather than taking that opportunity to shake up the status quo. It's not like the Republican party would have fallen apart without another ticket of two old, white men (especially a cranky old S.O.B. like Cheney).

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Great Depression actually began in 1926. Florida had a series of strong hurricanes that destroyed our Land Boom. Land sales ceased, contractors stopped building, developers abandoned new projects, and the state banks failed. Land speculators left banks holding the bag for huge amounts of property that was extremely overpriced. When land values crashed so did property tax revenues. Counties and cities went bankrupt. Pretty much what is happening here now. My grandfather, a civil engineer, was picking oranges to support his family before the 1929 Crash happened.

Obama went as far as he did because most people dont like Hillary Clinton. No one has a clue what she'll do because you cant believe a word she says, and she has no loyalty to anyone. Obama came along and people grasped his straw. But now they know he's kinda nutty and keeps bad company. He's also weak and impotent.

McCranky will get elected and we'll have 4 years of quarrels and animosity and food fights.

 

[DesertPirate]

The Dems have wandered so far to the left the don't stand a real chance. If they come back to a more moderate stance they will get support. The Reps are coming to close to the middle and need to go back to the ideals of Reagan/Gingrich to win big.

Who will wake up first, stay tuned...