Defining the Undefinable?

[kikmosa]

(Warning: This thread is a total mind-blower. If you can't take it then please don't read any further.)


Ok folks, here's the thing. For a long time I had questions that seem to never have an answer or the answer is another question. I've decided to post some of them here and see what everyone else comes up with. Here's the first one.

How do you define something that by it's own definition has no definition?
For instance, defining the term God. By the definition, God is an entity with infinate and unknowable powers that is beyond anything man can define. The definition says that he cannot be defined but by defining that much don't we put a limit on the definition? And doesn't limiting the defination change the definition? If we say that His power is unknowable then we're limiting it by saying that he cannot make it known to us therefore it has a limit which means that it can be knowable. By saying His power has no limit but is infinate we contridict the difinition.
So, do we limit something by defining it even if the definition says that it's unlimited, and if we do don't we make our definition void?

Lol, have I confused you enough yet?

 

[Native Alien]

not at all you don't and haven't confused me...to answer your question, i truly believe that by trying to define the undefined we do limit ourselves. we build walls that limit the very thing that we are trying to not define.

in my case, i was taught that somethings just are...no explanation and no definition needed. so i tend to be what they call a non-linear thinker. the only place that this causes a problem seems to be algebra....ahhh well...on with it.

 

[kikmosa]

not at all you don't and haven't confused me...to answer your question, i truly believe that by trying to define the undefined we do limit ourselves. we build walls that limit the very thing that we are trying to not define.

in my case, i was taught that somethings just are...no explanation and no definition needed. so i tend to be what they call a non-linear thinker. the only place that this causes a problem seems to be algebra....ahhh well...on with it.

Ahhh.. but my non-linear friend, in determining what is to be undefined, don't you have to first determine what it is? And in doing that, don't you put a definition on it so that you know it's to be undefined? And by refusing to define something and give it limits, don't you give it limits by saying that it can't fit in the walls? Wouldn't that in itself limit it?

 

[kikmosa]

not at all you don't and haven't confused me...to answer your question, i truly believe that by trying to define the undefined we do limit ourselves. we build walls that limit the very thing that we are trying to not define.

in my case, i was taught that somethings just are...no explanation and no definition needed. so i tend to be what they call a non-linear thinker. the only place that this causes a problem seems to be algebra....ahhh well...on with it.

Oh.. and another thing.. your not all that non-linear. By refusing to think within the limits and be linear, your giving yourself different limits. Your basicly saying.. Ok, these are the limits of a linear thinker and I don't think within those limits so I'm limited to the things outside the limits. Therefore I'm limited and this makes me linear but on a different path.

 

[Native Alien]

very true what you say about the non-linear thinking, but no, i don't have to define something to know that it is. like the leaves on the trees, i don't have to define them, i see them, they are there and that is all there is to that.

but then, maybe that is defining them. ummmm...you always come up with things that make me think...thank you so much for stretching the brain.

 

[kikmosa]

very true what you say about the non-linear thinking, but no, i don't have to define something to know that it is. like the leaves on the trees, i don't have to define them, i see them, they are there and that is all there is to that.

but then, maybe that is defining them. ummmm...you always come up with things that make me think...thank you so much for stretching the brain.

Leaves, yes, we KNOW what they are because we see them but our brain puts limits on how and how much we see. We can see the color and the shape and the size. But we can't see what makes it that way. We limit it to what we can know but there is so much more. Even with the help of a microscope, we still have limits to what we can see and know about it. Our limit puts a limit on them. We define them by what we see and know. Yet we know that there is so much more to them. Therefore we are defining the undefinable again.

 

[kikmosa]

Aww... come on... surely someone else has something to say about it.....anyone????

 

[fleetaft]

wow

I wish I could slow my brain down enough to think that clearly. My thoughts come in waves of words and not quite defineable or well thought out. I still seem to end my sentences with preporsitions and can't spell , "worth shit". well, sometimes i just sit with amasement and look upon whiteness that has been filled with these black letters. where do they come from? I touch the letters on the keyboard with no intention of saying anything, but yet in saying so little , I still say something. Paradox, what a wonderful word to describe that which is never stopping long enough to see . Like trying to see the wind but only seeing where it has been. Alas, its no longer then but is now. Time slows for no one it seems.

 

[kikmosa]

Re: wow

I wish I could slow my brain down enough to think that clearly. My thoughts come in waves of words and not quite defineable or well thought out. I still seem to end my sentences with preporsitions and can't spell , "worth shit". well, sometimes i just sit with amasement and look upon whiteness that has been filled with these black letters. where do they come from? I touch the letters on the keyboard with no intention of saying anything, but yet in saying so little , I still say something. Paradox, what a wonderful word to describe that which is never stopping long enough to see . Like trying to see the wind but only seeing where it has been. Alas, its no longer then but is now. Time slows for no one it seems.

Hi ya fleet, good point on the wind. How do we really even know that it truly exists? Sure we can see the results of it but that could have another explanation... and as for feeling it.. is that truly wind or our mind playing tricks on us? How do we know? And just what is wind? Does it have a definition? If so, does the definition set a limit on it? But I've heard of solar winds between the stars... Can we see the effects of that or even feel it? Then how do we know it exists? And are there other types of winds?

 

[TantaLiza]

I knew I shoulda waited til tomorrow... lol

Guess I have to say that I try not to question things I have no way of controllin or figuring out... thereby setting limits as discussed previously... I accept things too often for what I can see and try not to change them to my advantage. I've found that it can come back to haunt me if I do... kinda passive/aggressive acceptance. It gets me by...

Blow my mind again tomorrow... gonna keep my eye on this thread!! lol

LizA

 

[kikmosa]

I knew I shoulda waited til tomorrow... lol

Guess I have to say that I try not to question things I have no way of controllin or figuring out... thereby setting limits as discussed previously... I accept things too often for what I can see and try not to change them to my advantage. I've found that it can come back to haunt me if I do... kinda passive/aggressive acceptance. It gets me by...

Blow my mind again tomorrow... gonna keep my eye on this thread!! lol

LizA

But by accepting them only for what you can see your putting very strict limits on them because your defining them by that alone. You are in essence saying that things have no other definition then what you see of them. You don't have to change them to change the limits you put on them. Indeed, if you do change them then your changing their limits also which make them not the same as what was defined in the beginning.

(I'm having way too much fun with this. I need to get a life and soon)

 

[kikmosa]

Anyone else have a question that they've never been able to solve or a comment on what's been said so far?

 

[rosylady]

Anyone else have a question that they've never been able to solve or a comment on what's been said so far?

The only comment I have is that I'm confused. I need to start using my brain more often, LOL.

 

[rosylady]

Oh yes and I'm horrible at any philosphical debates.

 

[kikmosa]

The only comment I have is that I'm confused. I need to start using my brain more often, LOL.

Lol, believe me, a lot of it confuses me too. That the whole raeson behind this thread. Maybe if I can keep it going, someone with a few answers will come in and help.

 

[kikmosa]

Oh yes and I'm horrible at any philosphical debates.

Lol, hun, if you were to take out all the bs I put in, it comes down to this..... "Duhhhh george, I don know"

 

[rosylady]

Lol, hun, if you were to take out all the bs I put in, it comes down to this..... "Duhhhh george, I don know"

LOL, Yeah but at least you make it sound good.

 

[kikmosa]

LOL, Yeah but at least you make it sound good.

Yeah, lol, my mom always said that I could sell a refridgerator to an eskimo in the dead of winter. I can sling the bs with the best of them.

 

[rosylady]

I just wanted to add that I think everything comes down to the individual. Their faith, beliefs, trusts and comprehensions. How a person is brought up. Where they are brought up and when. No body's answer is going to be exactly the same.

We don't question someone when they say the believe in God, but we do when they say they saw an alien.
Why?

 

[Mysticcal]

LOL! not sure I should jump in here on a Monday when my brain is not fully functioning yet, but going to take a leap and just let it flow.

Can anything be truly undefinable or undefined? I just had to look it up, and definition is a statement expressing the essential nature of something, or a statement of the meaning of a word, symbol, or sign (just two of the many in the dictionary). Ok, so although we may not be able to define something exactly, if it has meaning to us, it has a definition. We apply that and we choose the limits of it. Faith in god for me is limitless....it has immense meaning to me, beyond what I think or have learned.

 

[kikmosa]

I just wanted to add that I think everything comes down to the individual. Their faith, beliefs, trusts and comprehensions. How a person is brought up. Where they are brought up and when. No body's answer is going to be exactly the same.

We don't question someone when they say the believe in God, but we do when they say they saw an alien.
Why?

That's something I could never understand. If a person believes in God, He has all this power and created our world and us, why are we so egotistical as to believe that he didn't create other beings as well? Why do we put a limit on him by saying that He created us only? Is our egos so strong as to believe that He created this entire universe just for us?
I mean yes he has the power to have done that, don't get me wrong. But aren't we putting limits on Him by saying He didn't create any other peoples?
As to the faith, beliefs, trusts and comprehensions, aren't these limits imposed on us by the ones raising us? They are giving us their definitions to live by. Like going to church and hearing a sermon. Your listening to the priest's or preacher's definition of what he is talking about. The bible also says to read it yourself and make your own judgement as to what you believe. In essence, listen to their definition, then read it, then give it your own definition. By sharing your definition with others and listening to their definitions, your definition will always be changing. There is no one true definition of anything. We impose our limits and definitions on everything but in truth, nothing is limited or definable.

 

[kikmosa]

Lol, and to make this even more confusing, by saying something cannot be limited or defined, I'm putting limits and a definition on it. I'm saying it can't be this, which limits or defines it as something other then this. LOL.

 

[kikmosa]

LOL! not sure I should jump in here on a Monday when my brain is not fully functioning yet, but going to take a leap and just let it flow.

Can anything be truly undefinable or undefined? I just had to look it up, and definition is a statement expressing the essential nature of something, or a statement of the meaning of a word, symbol, or sign (just two of the many in the dictionary). Ok, so although we may not be able to define something exactly, if it has meaning to us, it has a definition. We apply that and we choose the limits of it. Faith in god for me is limitless....it has immense meaning to me, beyond what I think or have learned.

But my friend, you just contridicted yourself. You stated that you choose a limit when you accept something as itself and then said that you faith in God is limitless. Yet if you limit it by choosing it then how can it be limitless?

 

[Mysticcal]

But my friend, you just contridicted yourself. You stated that you choose a limit when you accept something as itself and then said that you faith in God is limitless. Yet if you limit it by choosing it then how can it be limitless?

LOL! my head hurts, and you are so right. And feeling my way through this, I was really only trying to comment on defineable....but yes, when we think we know what something in its entirety, we do set limits on it. However, I can say that I do not know god entirely, I strive for understanding, grace, and trust in my faith. I do not set those limiting beliefs upon this faith. I know that I will always learn and expand my knowledge and love.

LOL! and when I come back and read this later, will probably shake my head and wonder what the heck I meant this time

 

[kikmosa]

I need to state here and now that I am not trying to change anyone's beliefs in God or any other entaty that they choose to believe in. I am not attacking the faith of others as someone stated in a pm to me. I too believe in God and have faith. I was merely trying to increase my understanding of what faith and belief mean to others. Only by asking questions and debating the answers can we truly learn. I'm sorry if anyone has taken this as an attack of any faith as that is not what it was meant to do.