Debate #1 - Election 2012, Romney vs. Obama

[RoryN]

Wait for the poll. (And yes, we'll be able to see if you voted before the debate ended.)

What do the candidates need to do to win this debate? As I see it...

Romney: Show some indication that he's presidential material, and effectively counter Obama on several points.

Obama: Show.

 

[killallhippies]

i already voted because i just don't care. what you gonna do about it, huh? yeah, that's what i thought.

 

[RoryN]

i already voted because i just don't care. what you gonna do about it, huh?

Keep track.

That's one nullified vote.

 

[richard_daily]

Keep track.

That's one nullified vote.

Do you work for the state of Florida?

 

[RoryN]

Do you work for the state of Florida?

Nope - I legitimately nullified a vote.

Chad wasn't hangin'.

 

[blobfish]

Jeez, everyone is desperate to get the first thread on a subject. I'm going to start a "devastating hurricane 2013" thread.

 

[Wok]

I picked Romney because he loves America.

 

[killallhippies]

nope. votes still there.

 

[RoryN]

Five posts, hours away from the debate. Not bad!

 

[Wrong Element]

ZINGERS!

It's all about who has the zingers, man.

 

[blobfish]

ZINGERS!

It's all about who has the zingers, man.

"I will not exploit my opponent's youth and inexperience."

That one was great, no matter what you think of either candidate.

 

[Liar]

If they both tank, is that still good news for Gary Johnson?

 

[Sean Renaud]

If they both tank, is that still good news for Gary Johnson?

That's the Republican who's ashamed to be a Republican right?

 

[Liar]

That's the Republican who's ashamed to be a Republican right?

One of them.

 

[Wrong Element]

"I will not exploit my opponent's youth and inexperience."

That one was great, no matter what you think of either candidate.

One might say that the second term of Ronald "I don't recall" Reagan argued for the media to press that point a little harder in 1984, instead of falling for a well-rehearsed line and "morning in America," but since you're a mere youth you wouldn't remember any of that.

 

[blobfish]

One might say that the second term of Ronald "I don't recall" Reagan argued for the media to press that point a little harder in 1984, instead of falling for a well-rehearsed line and "morning in America," but since you're a mere youth you wouldn't remember any of that.

Basically, you're saying that it was a good line that achieved everything it was intended to. I agree.

 

[killallhippies]

If they both tank, is that still good news for Gary Johnson?

fun fact: he isn't even on the ballot in michigan. the greens are there and so are a couple fringe right parties that no one cares about, but not him.

 

[trysail]

I didn't write this. I know the person who did and I know that person would not want to be credited here.

...Everyone knows this is an election of big government versus small government. Mr. Obama thinks government should be your partner. Mr. Romney prefers to set the rules of engagement and then get out of the way. Mr. Obama wants to spend more and tax more. But beyond that, there are quite a few similarities. Both want permanent tax reform. Both want to see the deficit reduced markedly over the next several years. Both have embraced some form of universal health in their past. Both understand the importance of some form of open immigration. Both want better education. Most importantly, it is quite likely that both will have to negotiate compromises with the opposition within Congress.


So far, the stock market doesn’t seem to care who wins if you accept the old saw that Wall Street favors Republican laissez-faire policies over liberal intrusions. Or maybe investors prefer Obama; stocks have been rising as his standing in the polls has increased. Most likely, the movement in stock prices and Presidential odds simply don’t correlate, suggesting investors can be happy with either choice. Time will tell. As I have pointed out repeatedly the most important factors are the ability to traverse the fiscal cliff and to begin to instill fiscal discipline. Press reports suggest Senate leaders are working behind closed doors to that end but the Tea Party right in the House so far continues to ignore any compromise containing any tax increases. There is still time to find a common center but not a lot of time.


I want to close and talk about my hot topic, our fiscal debt and the need to create some fiscal discipline. Our nation now owes over $16 trillion. That is a huge amount of money, so big that most of us cannot comprehend what that means. There are about 311 million Americans. If I divide $16 trillion by 311 million, each of us bears a debt of more than $51,000. A family of four owes over $200,000. OK, that’s fine but let me go further. Let’s suppose that a normal interest rate over time is 4%. That means each typical family has to pay about $8,000 per year to service our debt. You say we don’t really have to pay that? Actually you do at some point in time. You pay it via taxes to the government which then has to pay the interest.


Let me go further. We are running deficits of about $1.2 trillion per year. Again, dividing by 311 million people, that means that a family of four is adding another $15,000+ in debt every year. In four years, it is accumulating an extra $60,000 in debt and would have to pay another $2,500 in debt service. In other words, if our fiscal course doesn’t change, by the time the next Presidential term is up each family is going to have to pay about $10,000 every year just to service the debt outstanding.


I’m not done. The government spends $3 for every $2 it takes in. Imagine the average family making about $80,000 per year spending $120,000 every year. Didn’t we just go through a huge recession because we were all spending beyond our needs? As individuals, we quickly learned. No one would lend us money anymore. Banks began to foreclose on our mortgages. Credit card companies canceled our accounts. Most of us did what we had to. We cut unnecessary spending and some even cut out certain necessities. We shopped our closets until we recovered. The government could try to raise taxes by 50% to close the gap but it can’t do that just by taxing the rich even if it taxed them at a rate of 100%. So the obvious solution is to cut spending. When the government cuts spending, someone somewhere stops receiving a check whether it be a welfare recipient or a defense contractor or a national park ranger. But when you get to the point where you spend more than you take in, and where your debt becomes so great that you can’t afford to service it anymore, you have to make choices. Yes, there is room to raise some taxes but whether liberal or conservative, the heavy lifting is going to come from spending cuts.


I don’t expect the candidates to tell me tonight how they will cut spending. But I will be listening to see which candidate is more serious about getting our fiscal house in order. I don’t think we can wait another four years to get started.

 

[hogjack]

Rich white guys can't jump.
Rich white guys can't debate.

Obama in a landslide!

 

[RoryN]

I picked Romney because he loves America.

*chuckle*

 

[RoryN]

ZINGERS!

It's all about who has the zingers, man.

I'll be waiting. I'm hoping for a couple, but not optimistic...

 

[Cade Is Here]

Hey racist rory, remember when you tried these polls last time around? You lost several of your alts and you really looked like a moron.

BTW why are you double bumping your own thread again. You know that it is against the rules here.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Every debate answer in some way conclusively affirms your preexisting biases. It's your job to figure out how.

 

[Shagly]

I can hardly wait until the abortion issue comes up.

 

[hogjack]

The Wealthy, Mormon Conservative-Pretender VS. the Left-Wing Socialist Big Government candidate.

This should be GOOD.