Death video girl 'targeted by militia'

[Byron In Exile]

Amateur video apparently showing a young Iranian woman dying in Tehran after she was allegedly shot by pro-government militia on Saturday has caused outrage in Iran and abroad.

The woman, Neda Agha-Soltan, was buried on Sunday.

Her fiance, Caspian Makan, told BBC Persian TV about the circumstances of Neda's death:

She was near the area, a few streets away, from where the main protests were taking place, near the Amir-Abad area. She was with her music teacher, sitting in a car and stuck in traffic. She was feeling very tired and very hot. She got out of the car for just for a few minutes.

And that's when it all happened.

That's when she was shot dead. Eyewitnesses and video footage of shooting clearly show that probably Basij paramilitaries in civilian clothing deliberately targeted her. Eyewitnesses said they clearly targeted her and she was shot in the chest.

She passed away within a few minutes. People tried to take her to the nearest hospital, the Shariati hospital. But it was too late.

We worked so hard to get the authorities to release her body. She was taken to a morgue outside Tehran. The officials from the morgue asked if they could use parts of her corpse for body transplants for medical patients.

They didn't specify what exactly they intended to do. Her family agreed because they wanted to bury her as soon as possible.

We buried her in the Behesht-e-Zahra cemetery in southern Tehran. They asked us to bury her in this section where it seemed the authorities had set aside spaces for graves for those killed during the violent clashes in Tehran last week.

On Monday afternoon, we had planned to hold a memorial service at the mosque.

But the authorities there and the paramilitary group, the Basij, wouldn't allow it because they were worried it would attract unwanted attention and they didn't want anymore trouble.

The authorities are aware that everybody in Iran and throughout the whole world knows about her story. So that's why they didn't want a memorial service. They were afraid that lots people could turn up at the event.

So as things stand now, we are not allowed to hold any gatherings to remember Neda.​

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8113552.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45959000/jpg/_45959328_photo_226.jpg ____ http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45959000/jpg/_45959215_neda_226.jpg

 

[Byron In Exile]

Warning: this is very graphic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRga9Zm-QYA

 

[R. Richard]

In Iran, it must take a very brave boy to shoot down an unarmed woman.

 

[sr71plt]

In Iran, it must take a very brave boy to shoot down an unarmed woman.

Why specify Iran? It takes a brave man to shoot down a doctor in church or a guy opening the door for him at the Hallocaust museum--both in the United States.

 

[Byron In Exile]

In Iran, it must take a very brave boy to shoot down an unarmed woman.

It takes a pretty "brave" guy to do that just about anywhere...

 

[R. Richard]

Why specify Iran? It takes a brave man to shoot down a doctor in church or a guy opening the door for him at the Hallocaust museum--both in the United States.

Yes, we have our share of 'brave boys.' However, most of them here are insane. I understand that, in Iran, the state pays 'brave boys' to do that sort of thing.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Yes, we have our share of 'brave boys.' However, most of them here are insane. I understand that, in Iran, the state pays 'brave boys' to do that sort of thing.

They provide a sort of buffer for the state in that, unlike the police, their actions don't splash back on the state directly. So there's a convenient lack of accountability in both directions. Basically, they're thugs with guns and a pass from the cops. Think Chicago circa 1920s.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, we have our share of 'brave boys.' However, most of them here are insane. I understand that, in Iran, the state pays 'brave boys' to do that sort of thing.

The "state" of the United States has paid people to do this too, RR. Even in Iran. (which some Iranians point out is what started this mess.)

So, again, it's a human being characteristic, not just Iranian.

 

[Byron In Exile]

The "state" of the United States has paid people to do this too, RR. Even in Iran. (which some Iranians point out is what started this mess.)

So, again, it's a human being characteristic, not just Iranian.

I think he was referring to their "militia" specifically, not the Iranian people in general.

 

[oggbashan]

Does anyone else think that the Iranian militia is unlikely to have been deliberately aiming at the girl's heart? That assumes a conscious decision to kill that person and sniper's skill.

Her death is ammunition for those who want change in Iran.

My view is that it was a random shot that has had considerable repercussions that the killer probably didn't intend.

Her death is tragic. She is now a martyr with all the emphasis that the word means in Iran. Creating a martyr would not a sensible act by the Iranian authorities. It may indicate just how out-of-control the militia is.

Og

 

[Byron In Exile]

Does anyone else think that the Iranian militia is unlikely to have been deliberately aiming at the girl's heart? That assumes a conscious decision to kill that person and sniper's skill.

Her death is ammunition for those who want change in Iran.

My view is that it was a random shot that has had considerable repercussions that the killer probably didn't intend.

Her death is tragic. She is now a martyr with all the emphasis that the word means in Iran. Creating a martyr would not a sensible act by the Iranian authorities. It may indicate just how out-of-control the militia is.

A shot like that isn't an accident. Even if it had been, how is aiming first morally different from firing at people without aiming?

When you say "Iranian militia," you know you're talking about what are basically just street thugs with guns, right? The killer wasn't thinking about political repercussions, assuming he even had the intelligence to think in those terms. The asshole just felt like shooting someone and knew he could get away with it. It's what we call "evil." It happens.

Obviously, no official or cleric in the Iranian government isn't mortified by this. It was the last thing they wanted to happen: she's now become an icon, a source of inspiration for the people who have been carrying on these demonstrations.

But, you hire the Devil to do your dirty work, sometimes you get bit.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Neda’s Death Highlights Women’s Role in Iran Protests (Update3)
By Ali Sheikholeslami and Caroline Alexander

June 23 (Bloomberg) -- A young woman who was shot through the heart and died on the streets of Tehran has become the face of the opposition movement in Iran.

Neda Agha Soltan was killed by a Basij militiaman during a protest march on June 20, according to people who said they were eyewitnesses and posted videos of her death on the Internet. The videos on Facebook and YouTube show her collapsing, losing consciousness and dying.

Her death has resounded worldwide and become a symbol of the crackdown by Iranian authorities against demonstrations over President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s disputed June 12 re-election. Police used tear gas and batons to disperse about 1,000 people who had gathered in Haft-e Tir Square in central Tehran yesterday to mourn the university student.

“The violence of the regime has intensified. They are trying to create a regime of terror,” said Mohammad-Reza Djalili, an Iran expert at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva in a telephone interview. “The future will be marked by this horrible chain of events,” he said of Soltan’s killing.

Soltan was among countless women, of all ages and backgrounds, who have taken to the streets to demand a recount of the presidential vote they and others say was won by Mir Hossein Mousavi, a former prime minister. Mousavi made his wife, Zahra Rahnavard, a feature of his campaign and promised to give women more rights.

34 Million

Iran’s 34 million women are demanding female cabinet ministers, the right to able to run for president and the revision of civil and family law, Rahnavard said earlier this month. The country’s population is 66.4 million.

At least four Facebook pages are dedicated to Soltan, and more than 50 members of the social networking site have changed their user names to Neda Agha Soltan. One page called “Neda” has more than 15,000 members and the group’s 55 officers come from countries as diverse as Canada, Kuwait, Haiti, Italy, the U.S. and Zambia.

Black Banner

Mourners were prevented from holding a remembrance ceremony in a mosque yesterday, and Soltan’s family was told to take down a black banner they had hung outside their home, the Los Angeles Times reported.

“Neda had said that even if she lost her life and got a bullet in her heart, she would carry on,” Caspian Makan, Soltan’s fiancé, told the British Broadcasting Corp.’s Persian Television by phone from Tehran. “She gave a big lesson to everyone even though she was very young.”

Seventeen people have been killed in the protests, Iranian state television reported.

Soltan was a 27-year-old philosophy student, according to the text posted with the video on YouTube. Heat and frustration led her and her music teacher to abandon their car when it was blockaded by the demonstration. Minutes later, she was shot. She died in just two minutes, according to the YouTube text.

Iranian bloggers paid tribute to the young woman, one writing about the melancholy of the “alley of loneliness” where she was shot. Photos of the flowers left in memory of Soltan are posted on the blog.

Fierce Impact

“He had a clear shot and could not miss her,” wrote a man who said he was a doctor and posted one of the videos showing Soltan’s death, referring to the gunman. “The impact of the gunshot was so fierce that the bullet had blasted inside the victim’s chest.”

The author Paul Coelho said on his blog that he was best friends with the doctor, and that his friend had tried to resuscitate Soltan. In the video, as blood pours from Soltan’s eyes, nose and mouth, screams are heard and a small crowd gathers around her limp body.

The killing took away any “vestige of respect” people had for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has called for an end to the protests and allied himself with Ahmadinejad, because “a spiritual leader should not be leading carnage,” said Haleh Afshar, a professor of politics and women’s studies at University of York.

Seeing the video of Soltan’s death has left Zahra Khedri, a 24-year-old Iranian postgraduate student at the U.K.’s University of Essex, feeling numb and shocked, she said.

“It could be me, simple as that,” said Khedri. The video “will help us with the support we need. Ahmadinejad must not be recognized.”

To contact the reporters on this story: Caroline Alexander in London at calexander1@bloomberg.net; Ali Sheikholeslami in London at alis2@bloomberg.net.

Last Updated: June 23, 2009 13:32 EDT
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aX.UJaDJj_Fg

 

[Byron In Exile]

Watching Neda Die -- A Sacred Taboo Broken
Steven Waldman

Tuesday June 23, 2009

For years, we saw the famous image of a Vietnamese man about to be executed -- without realizing that there was film of him actually being shot, crumpling to the ground. For years, we saw only the part of the Zapruder film in which President Kennedy was shot in the neck and not the horrifying frames when he was shot directly in the head.

There seemed to be a taboo against showing a person's actual moment of death -- a sense that such a moment was so profoundly personal -- so sacred -- that it shouldn't be broadcast publically.

But this week, the whole world watched a woman die. We watched not merely as she got shot, or fell down, or bled profusely. We zoomed into her face as she looked anguished, then as her eyes turned upward, and then as one eye became covered in blood and the other became glazed and still.

Yes, there have been pictures of people dying on the internet and elsewhere for a while but I can't think of another case when so many people around the world had the experience of watching the moment when a stranger ceases to be alive.

I was trying to decide whether to show my kids. I wanted them connected to what's going on in Iran but I also wondered how they would react to such a sight. I had two fears: that it would traumatize them too much and that it would traumatize them too little. How can you not be haunted by such a sight, I figured? But what if watching video games and movies has made death seem commonplace? Or what if, by breaking this taboo, we moved toward a time when such scenes no longer seem shocking?

I understand -- and agree with -- the decision to show Neda's moment of expiration. That video is the greatest weapon freedom fighters have, especially if they're inclined to use non-violence as their strategy.

But I also mourn for a new boundary being broken.

 

[xssve]

Does anyone else think that the Iranian militia is unlikely to have been deliberately aiming at the girl's heart? That assumes a conscious decision to kill that person and sniper's skill.

Her death is ammunition for those who want change in Iran.

My view is that it was a random shot that has had considerable repercussions that the killer probably didn't intend.

Her death is tragic. She is now a martyr with all the emphasis that the word means in Iran. Creating a martyr would not a sensible act by the Iranian authorities. It may indicate just how out-of-control the militia is.

Og

I get your implication but I don't buy it Og - the Iranian authorities have maintained a very effective media blackout for a long time, it's more likely they just pushed their luck w/regard the law of averages.

I watched a video the other day of Iranian women protesting - they were wearing burkha but they were topless, their torsos painted with slogans - the one symbol they all had painted on them was a crosshairs on their breastbones - I don't think this is anything new.

 

[R. Richard]

I think he was referring to their "militia" specifically, not the Iranian people in general.

I was referring to the 'establishment' in Iran. The kind of leadership that allows US Embassy employees to be held hostage. The kind of leadership that kills citizens who disagree with them. The kind of leadership hired ass holes who shoot an unarmed woman down in the street, knowing that they'll never be prosecuted for their crimes.

Like the USA, there is no such thing as an Iranian people. There are Persians, Azeri, Kurds, Lur and several other groups. I have nothing against the ethnic groups, just the Iranian leadership and the punks the leadership hires.

 

[R. Richard]

Her death is tragic. She is now a martyr with all the emphasis that the word means in Iran. Creating a martyr would not a sensible act by the Iranian authorities. It may indicate just how out-of-control the militia is.

Og

The shooting of the woman was beyond senseless. As you point out, she's now a martyr and a rallying point for those who oppose the government. The milita is out of control. However, the entire Iranian state is out of control.

 

[sr71plt]

The Iranian government at present (outside of its president) is entirely unlike those disparate groups that were in pretty loose internally disorganized control during the Iranian hostage crisis (which I covered for the U.S. government from nearby for a year right up until the release). Those who are in actual control have very much mellowed and have moved to the "something to protect and therefore open to some discussion" position.

That doesn't mean I think that the current Iranian power structure is anywhere mellow enough to deal with concerning anything in U.S. interest yet--it's just that I don't think it's fair (or constructive) to say it's in the same place it was during the Iranian hostage crisis.

In the Iranian hostage crisis day, if they'd had this election, Mousavi wouldn't have survived through the close of balloting. I still wonder a bit at the power he must have behind him to still be kicking around and talking out.

 

[R. Richard]

The Iranian government at present (outside of its president) is entirely unlike those disparate groups that were in pretty loose internally disorganized control during the Iranian hostage crisis (which I covered for the U.S. government from nearby for a year right up until the release). Those who are in actual control have very much mellowed and have moved to the "something to protect and therefore open to some discussion" position.

That doesn't mean I think that the current Iranian power structure is anywhere mellow enough to deal with concerning anything in U.S. interest yet--it's just that I don't think it's fair (or constructive) to say it's in the same place it was during the Iranian hostage crisis.

In the Iranian hostage crisis day, if they'd had this election, Mousavi wouldn't have survived through the close of balloting. I still wonder a bit at the power he must have behind him to still be kicking around and talking out.

If I may point out, Ahmadinejad the President, serves at the pleasure of the real rulers. The real rulers want Ahmadinejad in power badly enough to rig an election.

In the time of the hostage crisis, there were, as you point out, whackos running around and doing insane things. However, there was one man in control. Now, there are factions that aren't quite so insane, but better organized and thus more dangerous. The various factions still operate from a position of power growing from the barrel of a gun.

Obviously, Mousavi wouldn't have run for office back in the days of the hostage crisis. Mousavi, by the way isn't some knight in shining armor, riding to the rescue of Iran. He's a politician, seeking power and will do damn near anything to get it. However, he's probably saner than Ahmadinejad, which aint sayin' much.

The idea that the US can talk to Ahmadinejad is insane. Ahmadinejad is a Twelver Shia. Ahmadinejad wants world war III, as do all Twelver Shias. [Google it up.] Anyone who thinks that the USA can talk to Ahmadinejad needs to be put someplace where they can't get at anything hard or sharp.

 

[sr71plt]

If I may point out, Ahmadinejad the President, serves at the pleasure of the real rulers. The real rulers want Ahmadinejad in power badly enough to rig an election.

You could point that out, but you'd be oversimplyfing--and misconstruing.

Ahmadinejad doesn't have the real power (you seem to realize that yourself). He isn't ruling, he's figureheading. And real power isn't in the hands of a single person or a tight coalition any more. There's strong division and contention among those with real power. That's why Mousavi was put up for election and why he is still breathing and talking out against Ahmadinejad (the last I knew). If he were elected, he'd be a front man for someone else or some coalition holding the real power as well. But the powerholders behind him would be signaling that they are more open to the West and those behind Ahmadinejad are.

And we don't know at all that the elections were significantly rigged. Just because there are vocal people in the streets doesn't mean a majority in Iran backs Mousavi over Ahmadinejad (or anyone else). They're just a vocal, partisan group of unknown percentage of population.

So, no, I don't take your particular points.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Obviously, Mousavi wouldn't have run for office back in the days of the hostage crisis.

He became Prime Minister at the same time Ali Khamenei became President in 1981.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, and I like your avatar, Byron--but does your Web page ever open?

 

[R. Richard]

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Richard
Obviously, Mousavi wouldn't have run for office back in the days of the hostage crisis.

He became Prime Minister at the same time Ali Khamenei became President in 1981.

Not quite! The hostage crisis ended, with the realease of the hostages, as Reagan became US President. Seemingly, the hostage crisis ended because the Iranians were afraid that Reagan would attack Iran over the hostages. There was no concern that Carter would attack Iran. Carter wanted to talk, Reagan wanted to fight. The hostages were held while Carter talked. The hostages were released befored Reagan could start a fight.

Ali Khamenei became President in late 1981. Ali Khamenei nominated someass hole as PrimeMinister. However, the parliament rejected Ali Khamenei's nominee. Then, Mousavi was named Prime Minister, as a political compromise. The hostage crisis had ended by the time Mousavi was named Prime Minister.

 

[xssve]

I believe that's a more than a bit revisionist, as Carter actually authorized and initiated the use of military force, it was the Reagan administration who negotiated, trading arms for the timely release of the hostages.

This is not speculation, it's a matter of public record, look it up.

 

[R. Richard]

I believe that's a more than a bit revisionist, as Carter actually authorized and initiated the use of military force, it was the Reagan administration who negotiated, trading arms for the timely release of the hostages.

This is not speculation, it's a matter of public record, look it up.

Carter, after abandoning the Shah of Iran, toppling the existing government and effectively handing Iran to Islamic fundamentalists, authorized one of the most incompetent military efforts ever to attempt to free the hostages. You might read some of the Israeli analysis of what Carter tried. The Israelis are maybe the best in the world at that sort of thing.

The hostages were released on the day that Reagan took office. Either your statement is false, or Reagan resolved in well under one day what Carter was unable to do in years.

 

[sr71plt]

Yep, the hostages were released on the day Reagan took office. The release had already been negotiated--by the Carter administration--but the Iranians started the release almost the moment Reagan took the oath of office (I was in the Middle East covering the release and sending messages every 15 minutes or so on the status of that). And they did so because they had flatly said they wouldn't release them as long as Carter was in office. It was just a "stick-it-to-him" timed event.