Death to homosexuals!

[Liar]

I scrolled back to read what I had written and I do not see how you inferred from what I said to justify your question.

Pedophiles are criminals whatever their sexual orientation.

Nice try, but rather transparent....

I didn't try anything.

Your words:
I do think that homosexual priests who prey upon captive children and Lesbians who gravitate towards young girls in controlled settings such as schools and day care centers, present a danger to society at large.

I wonder why you single out gays and lesbians in this context. I see no reason for it. That's all. I'm seriously not trying to slam your point of view. Because I don't understand it enough to even disagree yet.

Like you said, pedophiles are criminals whatever their sexual orientation. Then what is your reason for explicitly talking about homosexual priests and lesbian daycare workers who molest kids? Are they more common? Are homosexuals more prone to pedophilia? Are female (and possibly lesbian) daycare workers more trusted than men, and therefore may have easier access to the victims?

 

[shiresa]

His ex wife is probably a lesbian now or something.

As an aside, there was an article in the local paper lately that the school district of my town is being sued for not providing adequate protection of gay students. Seems there was a gay teen at the high school who happened to let people know he was gay, and another kid decided he didn't like the way the gay student looked at him. So...he promptly got up and punched him in the face. Thank god, I won't be living here when my kids are older.

Kids have been punching each other for any number of reasons for all of history. Looking at one another wrong is a pretty standard excuse for young men. I am not saying it is right, but it happens. It isn't a hate crime so much as just youth... Or maybe I should call it immaturity.

 

[shiresa]

Democrats!

Hey the KKK were democrats

 

[shiresa]

Interesting aside. I was researching something for school last semester and came across a lot of cases similar to the one you mentioned. There's a big push for the health care industry to acknowledge homosexuality as a part of patient confidentiality as well as treating issues that may come with it for the patient. The push is mainly for children in public schools and for the nurses there to be ready to provide help-line and other outlet information as well as know how to aid that child in functioning without harm/incident in the public school environment. Interesting stuff.

Isn't that just shoving them into the closet? Not sure I like that idea. Hatred of the strange dies out if it isn't continually refreshed. I think we should just treat people like people. It seems to me that most of what carries on racism/sexism/etc is the idea that people who are treated bad must get revenge. Blowing people up or grinding them facefirst in guilt for something their ancestors did. It is all just continuing the cycle of hate.

I recently watched a clip of a black man lecturing somewhere (it is on m90.org I think) that the only way the black people would ever be free is if they kill all whites. Is that any better than some hitler youth punk doing the opposite? Worse it gives the skinhead amunition for his own hate.

Mayne we should have enforced intrabreeding (I am kidding) it would sure solve the whole race issue in a couple generations.

I am not gay (althought sometimes I wish I were, women are way too crazy to deal with) but I tried it out in college. People will get over the hate in a couple years. As our poor planet gets more and more crowded we might even come to appreciate people whose romance doesn't increase the population.

Just rambling

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Lucky, you make this personal and I always try to avoid the personal or subjective and deal with issues in a detached and objective manner.

I truly apologize if you took what I said personally, it is not meant that way.

I do not doubt that the Media and Gay activists with a political agenda are the driving force behind the pressures exerted to make a gay lifestyle more acceptable.

I do not, and cannot know, if the gay population at large desires to just live quietly, it does not appear that way to me.

I do think that homosexual priests who prey upon captive children and Lesbians who gravitate towards young girls in controlled settings such as schools and day care centers, present a danger to society at large.

It has become a much wider issue with gay marriage and adoption, a whole host of conflicts with the 94 percent 'straight' society.

amicus...

Amicus, I've not made this personal any more than you have. How is it okay for you to say that you find the lifestyle repugnant and not be making things personal and not okay for me to say I don't see where all the hate comes from and that be making it personal?

As to homosexual priests and lesbians gravitating to young girls, I do not believe you could have chosen a smaller subset of the gay population if you had tried. That said, if I had the time I would gladly pull up some statistical data on the number of heterosexual menaces to minors and put those numbers up against those of homosexual offenders. We both know there really is no comparison.

You bring up that society on the whole is 94% straight. Fine. If the percentage of homosexuals in society is so low, how is it that they are deemed such a threat? Essentially, what is everyone so afraid of or so inclined to hate?

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Isn't that just shoving them into the closet?

I don't believe that making school nurses aware of issues gay children or children with gay parents is shoving them into the closet. I think it's essential to protect a child's right to a real childhood, whether they need to discuss physical abuse, sexual abuse, sibling trouble, poverty in their household, drug abuse, gender role issues, school bullies, red hair and freckles, glasses and buck-teeth, pretty much anything that makes their family and their existence different. Adding to those differences the likes of being gay or growing up in a houshold with gay parents seems a positive thing. Whether or not the situation is in their control, I think it's a good idea for them to have a trustworthy outlet and resource if they find themselves in need of it.

 

[shiresa]

Life: a short play

Man walks down street. Enter Man B. They look around and then quickly peck.

Man C pops out of garbage can with a rocket launcher and blows them away.

MAN C
Goddamn homosexual agenda! Why do they have to shove it in our faces all the time? I'm not a bigot but goddamn they simply are shameless.

Fade to Black




Seriously, a one second look at the whole modern debate is ludicrous. There is no debate. There is only a bunch of bastards that still have a problem with black marrying white or protestant marrying catholic who's brains have snapped and can't tolerate the knowledge that someone may be gay on the planet because that means to them that anyone can be gay, even them.

No one who has any true confidence in their sexuality is out there screaming. I know people who do hold the view that homosexuality is decried in the Bible, but they hold no views on restricting their rights because they know it's none of their business, that they have no say on it and they know it won't really affect them because they know their sexuality. These protestors don't. Not to say that they're all flaming queens, but they don't have confidence in their sexuality. Gender roles are a reflection of this. A man who believes a purse will ruin his son is a man who's not confident in himself who believes he can be robbed of "manliness" by single objects. We have a bunch of dumb, unconfident people who watched too much TV and now believe they have some perfect

It's the American way.

Screw it it is taking too long to delete the whole thing on my phone


I have an interesting idea for gay marriages. Allow them to marry just like everyone else, but only if they intend to adopt.

It answers the whole procreation issue (that marriage bennies are intended to help with children) and it would (carefully watched of course like all adoptions) give some child/children a chance at a loving home life. I am not saying force them to adopt, just make them look very seriously at it.

But I am always full of crap

 

[shiresa]

Whoops sorry for the repost. My phone is screwing up

 

[Boxlicker101]

If I happen to be alone, late at night on the street in a crummy part of town and I am approached by two burly young men, I would be afraid they might beat and rob me. However, if I saw the two young men holding hands and kissing, I would not fear them. I would probably say "hello", wish them happiness, and be on my way. .."

Not to be perniciously petulant, but have you not just expressed the attitude of a bigot who has prejudged according to an identifiable characteristic?

Would your expectations be any different than a white woman alone, late at night in a crummy part of town approached by two young black males?

Sir, I think you are a bigot in reverse.

amicus...[/QUOTE]

I am puzzled as to what you are saying. In the part of my post that you bolded, I said I have a certain fear of muggers. I consider this to be a very well-founded fear because such persons have been know to assault old men like I. However, I do not fear gay persons. I suppose gay men can be muggers as well as straight men, but if they were smooching, I would be much less concerned.

If a woman, any race, were to be approached by two young men, any race, in this hypothetical crummy part of town, she would be well advised to be concerned.

I see nothing at all bigoted in my post, except that I am bigoted against violent persons.

 

[Flamebird]

What I find so disturbing about all this (besides the obvious affront to peoples freedoms) is that they want to make homosexuality punishable by death, but I saw on the news the other day that a child rapist/pornographer with TONS of evidence against him only got 3 years! I'm just glad I live in Canada, not that bad things don't happen here, but in general I find that canada is more accepting of gay rights.

 

[Xelebes]

This man has learned nothing from Salem.

 

[amicus]

Urk...?

 

[Anniejustagirl]

Just what is it that's so absolutely terrifying to some people about homosexuality? I mean, you get the idea that they'd be more comfortable living next to a rapist or child molester than a gay person. Don't tell me it's religious, because there are plenty of other sexual proscriptions in the bible that don't invoke this kind of rabid fear and hysteria.

I think that there are far too many people that think homosexuality=child molester.
I never cease to be amazed by the number of uniformed people that just assume that pedophiles are gay.

That misconception seems to be pushed at every opportunity. Bush's spin doctors used it brilliantly every time he faded in the polls. Not necessarily the child molester angle, but simply the fact that the 'homosexual agenda' was attempting to destroy the american family and marriage and every other apple pie type symbol.



and btw... why is it that i never got a copy of this agenda? I do not remember seeing it in my 'welcome to the club' orientation packet.

 

[matriarch]

Thank the powers that be, that for once the UK is well and truly in the 21st Century.

Civil partnership for same-sex couples

Come live over here, people. We don't think gays and lesbians are sub-human.

 

[Xelebes]

Urk...?

I am refering to the candidate described in the article.

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=matriarch]Thank the powers that be, that for once the UK is well and truly in the 21st Century.

Civil partnership for same-sex couples

Come live over here, people. We don't think gays and lesbians are sub-human.[/QUOTE]

~~~~~~~~

And it came to pass, with not a bang, but a whimper, that Great Britain, once a world empire, became Hindu and Muslim, and the past glories were forgot.

The King is dead, long live ignorance and futility.

 

[amicus]

Liar]I didn't try anything.

Your words:
I do think that homosexual priests who prey upon captive children and Lesbians who gravitate towards young girls in controlled settings such as schools and day care centers, present a danger to society at large.

I wonder why you single out gays and lesbians in this context. I see no reason for it. That's all. I'm seriously not trying to slam your point of view. Because I don't understand it enough to even disagree yet.

Like you said, pedophiles are criminals whatever their sexual orientation. Then what is your reason for explicitly talking about homosexual priests and lesbian daycare workers who molest kids? Are they more common? Are homosexuals more prone to pedophilia? Are female (and possibly lesbian) daycare workers more trusted than men, and therefore may have easier access to the victims?

[/I]

~~~~~~~

That is a well made point, for most. However, in another post, I indicated that in an all male, or all female environment, solace is sought where it is available.

That should interpolate to where, in an all male or all female controlled environment, children will seek comfort where it is.

Would I entrust my children to such an environment, ( which I never did) I would insist upon strict background searches and continual monitoring. I love humanity, but I also know the primal urges to which we succumb.

If you wish to trust the 'humanitarian' drives of your fellow men and women, and entrust your children to them, don't come complaining to me when your rose colored glassed turn grey.

amicus...

 

[matriarch]

And it came to pass, with not a bang, but a whimper, that Great Britain, once a world empire, became Hindu and Muslim, and the past glories were forgot.

The King is dead, long live ignorance and futility.

Past glories? To some maybe.
I for one, am delighted that we have become Hindu, Muslim, and welcoming to all.
And because of her tolerance of religion, race and sexuality, Great Britain is still Great.

And on that note, I bid you goodnight, in the sure knowledge that your ignorance and bigotry keeps you good company.

Adieu.

 

[amicus]

Lucifer_Carroll]So...we should hate gays because we should hate interracial pairings, couplings between two separate unions, and any heterosexual union which doesn't conform to expected gender role...and apparently I should be ashamed of the fact that I understand when evolutionary biology demonstrates a biological factor which negates arguments for an entirely human societal argument and that's all...and gays should stop existing because people want to kill them...and I must be <insert group you purportedly hate while supporting them in all modern postings because ideological affiliation has trumped even your basic bigotries and philosophies>.

I see...



P.S. Have you ever worried that your attempt to adhere to your impressions of the duties of a Republican have caused you to lose all strength of convictions for any beliefs and rob you of nothing but your rhetoric so that only that, your pedophilia, and the memory of your many failed marriages and relationships is all that sustains you into death?

[/I]

~~~~~~~~

You really are an asshole, Lucifer Carrol, whomever you may be...

Within the concept of evolution, should a species strive to be dominant, it must compete and overcome the prevaling dominant species.


You, in your abject stupidity, envision a social, political process whereby non reproducing humans, homosexuals, become dominant.

You are really dense.

amicus...

 

[amicus]

Past glories? To some maybe.
I for one, am delighted that we have become Hindu, Muslim, and welcoming to all.
And because of her tolerance of religion, race and sexuality, Great Britain is still Great.

And on that note, I bid you goodnight, in the sure knowledge that your ignorance and bigotry keeps you good company.

Adieu.

Buenos Noches, Matriarch, for if those like you direct England's future, then surely, it is goodnight for the British Empire.

You reaffirm my conviction that women should never, ever, forever, been given the right to participate in the affairs of state.

I have read the history of England, since before the Romans sauntered north and kicked your sorry asses.

The Romans conquered because you were divided into multiple territories and did not provide an united front to thwart the invaders.

So it is now, you are fragmented and dissapated, you offer no common front.

You will fall, perhaps internally, perhaps the Irish or the Scots will gain a long lost lust(note the alliteration) and put a whole barrel of whupass on you.

You are so fucking silly, go back to writing porn and leave the forum to others.


amicus...

 

[amicus]

Anniejustagirl]I think that there are far too many people that think homosexuality=child molester.
I never cease to be amazed by the number of uniformed people that just assume that pedophiles are gay.

That misconception seems to be pushed at every opportunity. Bush's spin doctors used it brilliantly every time he faded in the polls. Not necessarily the child molester angle, but simply the fact that the 'homosexual agenda' was attempting to destroy the american family and marriage and every other apple pie type symbol.



and btw... why is it that i never got a copy of this agenda? I do not remember seeing it in my 'welcome to the club' orientation packet.

[/I]
~~~~~~~~~~

Well 'anniejustagirl' I reply only because of your Sn, as you had nothing to add to the discussion.

I do like the name 'Annie' and use it in as many stories as I can, the word, the name, has an ethereal and viscereal meaning to me, perhaps no one else.

It is not 'uniformed' people or 'Bush's' spin that calls attention to child molestation by homosexual men and lesbian women, it is statistics.

Is it really beyond your comprehension that homosexual priests seduce young boys, or that Lesbian women seduce young girls in cloistered circumstances?

If so, then you have no place on this forum.

amicus...

 

[English Lady]

Amicus! I'm quite shocked by your nasty language and unprovoked nastiness.


Matriarch is not silly, she's a Brit, like myself and proud to be one. Our diversity makes us stronger and I am not saying it goes without problems, I know it does not.

Where I live there is a massive mix of different cultures. The area I live in is mainly Asian with some Brits, some Jews and a there are black people and many european people. I am amazed by the different accents and languages I hear around in the shops.

Anyhow, mostly this community lives happily in harmony. Young and old and those in the middle happily associate with everyone, no matter colour nor creed. I would imagine the same attitude is taken with a persons sexuality, though mostly, that isn't so easily seen. There are the odd problem pockets, I've seen some nasty white kids breaking windows of the flats opposite shouting racial slurs at the Jewish folks who lived there (they've moved out now) and I've heard the Asian kids occassionally, talking derrogatively about blacks and sometimes whites.

I am basically saying that mostly we live in harmony, with the odd outbreak of hatred. Many generations of people here have lived in harmony with members of different races, and you can see that. There are only a few scared, worried individuals who hit out at those different from themselves.

When the Gay Marriage thing was passed, the headline of the local paper was about a lesbian couple getting married and it was all very positive. My father's girlfriend has a gay sister, it's not brought up, I'd probably not even know if I'd not seen her cannodling with her girlfriend, it's not seen as anything weird, crazy or wrong.

Times are changing, even my Nanna (who is old and on occassion fairly predjudice) has nothing bad to say about gay folks. The Gay Mardi Gras in manchester is now weeks long, not just a day long and everyone and anyone will happily walk through the gay area, without really noting it. (I did like the bright pink Christmas tree I saw there, decorated with white feather boas) And youknow, I am proud of that.

Hands up, I surrender, I was once not so favourably inclined towards Gay people. Yes, I've been brought up in the Church and in my teens I was degfinitely led to believe homosexuality was wrong, but that we should *cringes* pity the por souls, not hate them. Now, this was in just one church, and looking back now I can see it was dated and very narrowminded. But I agreed, I agreed that it wasn't natural and that it was a sin.

I dont believe any of that now, and may God forgive me for being so narrowminded and judgemental. Jesus said "love your neighbour." he didn't qualify the remark with "but not if he's got a boyfriend or if she's black or if they enjoy a bit of S&M" It's everyone.

Oh, and Amicus, I know you think religion is a crutch, you think it's evil and it's dangerous, so I know the above won't make a jot of difference to you, but I'm on a roll, so I'm going to keep going.

It wasn't until I began to meet lesbians and gays regularly online and in real life, that my attitude changed. Lucky and Vella played a big part -How could their love be wrong? I just can't see it myself. I also found out that the word translated in the bible as homosexual doesn't actually mean what we think it means (I don't remember exactly what it is, but Mcopado probably does) and I just realised that it's not an issue, it really isn't a biblical issue. And in my life, as a Christian, that has to have a great effect on me. (however weak you reckon that makes me, Amicus,dear.)

And do I have a point? somewhere in there, I think I do.

The world is a better place when it accepts, when it endeavours to understand and when it doesn't condemn something it doesn't understand or feels a little fearful about.

I'm also standing beside Mat, proud to be in a Country that accepts all faiths, all sexualities and all people. I think it makes us Great, and I'm sorry Amicus, call me silly,swear at me if you like, but I'm not going to change my mind.

 

[Liar]

That is a well made point, for most. However, in another post, I indicated that in an all male, or all female environment, solace is sought where it is available.

That should interpolate to where, in an all male or all female controlled environment, children will seek comfort where it is.

Would I entrust my children to such an environment, ( which I never did) I would insist upon strict background searches and continual monitoring. I love humanity, but I also know the primal urges to which we succumb.

If you wish to trust the 'humanitarian' drives of your fellow men and women, and entrust your children to them, don't come complaining to me when your rose colored glassed turn grey.

amicus...

Please include explanation as to where sexual preferrence enters this argument. Please include it explicitly, instead of with roundabout hints.

Because you don't. If you did, I wouldn't keep asking.

Yes, anyone taking care of children should be properly checked and monitored. But why would me entrusting my kids to a lesbian woman or a straight one make any difference, unless she is also a pedophile? Isn't it then also safer for boys to be assigned to lesbian women than straight, because she wouldn't molest them?

Or is that not it? Then what? Gay cooties?

 

[matriarch]

Amicus! I'm quite shocked by your nasty language and unprovoked nastiness.


Matriarch is not silly, she's a Brit, like myself and proud to be one. Our diversity makes us stronger and I am not saying it goes without problems, I know it does not.

Where I live there is a massive mix of different cultures. The area I live in is mainly Asian with some Brits, some Jews and a there are black people and many european people. I am amazed by the different accents and languages I hear around in the shops.

Anyhow, mostly this community lives happily in harmony. Young and old and those in the middle happily associate with everyone, no matter colour nor creed. I would imagine the same attitude is taken with a persons sexuality, though mostly, that isn't so easily seen. There are the odd problem pockets, I've seen some nasty white kids breaking windows of the flats opposite shouting racial slurs at the Jewish folks who lived there (they've moved out now) and I've heard the Asian kids occassionally, talking derrogatively about blacks and sometimes whites.

I am basically saying that mostly we live in harmony, with the odd outbreak of hatred. Many generations of people here have lived in harmony with members of different races, and you can see that. There are only a few scared, worried individuals who hit out at those different from themselves.

When the Gay Marriage thing was passed, the headline of the local paper was about a lesbian couple getting married and it was all very positive. My father's girlfriend has a gay sister, it's not brought up, I'd probably not even know if I'd not seen her cannodling with her girlfriend, it's not seen as anything weird, crazy or wrong.

Times are changing, even my Nanna (who is old and on occassion fairly predjudice) has nothing bad to say about gay folks. The Gay Mardi Gras in manchester is now weeks long, not just a day long and everyone and anyone will happily walk through the gay area, without really noting it. (I did like the bright pink Christmas tree I saw there, decorated with white feather boas) And youknow, I am proud of that.

Hands up, I surrender, I was once not so favourably inclined towards Gay people. Yes, I've been brought up in the Church and in my teens I was degfinitely led to believe homosexuality was wrong, but that we should *cringes* pity the por souls, not hate them. Now, this was in just one church, and looking back now I can see it was dated and very narrowminded. But I agreed, I agreed that it wasn't natural and that it was a sin.

I dont believe any of that now, and may God forgive me for being so narrowminded and judgemental. Jesus said "love your neighbour." he didn't qualify the remark with "but not if he's got a boyfriend or if she's black or if they enjoy a bit of S&M" It's everyone.

Oh, and Amicus, I know you think religion is a crutch, you think it's evil and it's dangerous, so I know the above won't make a jot of difference to you, but I'm on a roll, so I'm going to keep going.

It wasn't until I began to meet lesbians and gays regularly online and in real life, that my attitude changed. Lucky and Vella played a big part -How could their love be wrong? I just can't see it myself. I also found out that the word translated in the bible as homosexual doesn't actually mean what we think it means (I don't remember exactly what it is, but Mcopado probably does) and I just realised that it's not an issue, it really isn't a biblical issue. And in my life, as a Christian, that has to have a great effect on me. (however weak you reckon that makes me, Amicus,dear.)

And do I have a point? somewhere in there, I think I do.

The world is a better place when it accepts, when it endeavours to understand and when it doesn't condemn something it doesn't understand or feels a little fearful about.

I'm also standing beside Mat, proud to be in a Country that accepts all faiths, all sexualities and all people. I think it makes us Great, and I'm sorry Amicus, call me silly,swear at me if you like, but I'm not going to change my mind.

EL, as always, you're a dear. Rational (unlike some), tolerant (unlike some), accepting (unlike some). I'm thankful for your support, but know full well, that it will make no difference whatsoever to a completely blinkered individual like our Ami. His mind is totally closed to any and all arguments against his chosen point of view, his bigotry, his intolerance and professed disgust and revulstion of all things that are not framed or live in the Amicus point of view.

Reading his response to me when I got up this morning, actually gave me my first smile and laugh of the day. He amuses me, because he's such a silly old lthing himself. It bothers me not. It merely saddens that someone can go through life with those views and opinions of other people, and nore realise the joy and pleasure he's missing out on by closing his mind to such a degree.

Poor old Ami. Thanks for the laugh and smile so early in the morning.

Oh, and by the way, Ami. I don't write porn. I write Erotic Literature. Exclusively lesbian.

 

[Liar]

It is not 'uniformed' people or 'Bush's' spin that calls attention to child molestation by homosexual men and lesbian women, it is statistics.

Now we're getting somewhere. This is the answer that you kept avoiding when I asked you about this, repeatedly.

There are statistics showing that homosexuals have a higher tendency towards child molestation than heterosexuals? Wery well, let us see those numbers and the source of them.

I have no scientific study at hand, but when I worked at a youth clinic, we often dealt with sexual abuse against minors. Roughly one out of fifteen or twenty cases were same sex offences. Of course, that doesn't account for the many tragedies that doesn't get reported, but I have no indication that there would be a higher ratio of gay offenders there. So it's a small sample, but in that sample, there is nothing that indicates a higher tendency for molestation.