Dearth of Feedback....an un-novel idea?

[WickedAlchemy]

I think I know why its so hard to get feedback. There is simply to many stories on the site, and a reader its tough to cull my way through them all and, despite my attempts, nearly impossible to leave comments or feeback on them.

So I've sent my underworked brain into gear and hatched a not-so-unique plan. I want to start a workshop. There's no uniforms, bagdes, vests, buttons, ribbons, or anything like that. Just a group of people exchanging feedback on each other's stories. The admission fee is a story or two and the time to read and critique other peoples work.

The way I see things, this is notch above begging for feedback on the bulletin board, it will allow people to meet each other, and ultimately it will improve the level of material found on the site. Not that its bad, but emproving as a writer is, i'm sure, a popular goal around these parts and better writers write better stories.

Now for those of you who are interested just email me here or go ahead at look at my stories. And send some feedback along with a link to the story you want me to read. Hopefully, well have a group of people who are interetested in no time.

Now, just in case this idea is more sucessfull than i planned, I wan to let others no that there is no franchise on this idea. I encourage others to start their own groups. If we keep the workshops small and managable, everybody wins. We read good storys and watch are own get better and better. What's not to like?

WickedAlchemy



Lake Freedom A Gift of Please Atomic

 

[johnwadd]

feedback

I only see two problems. First of all I for one love the feedback but I know for every person that gives feedback, there are hundreds that love the stories that never vote. Second of all, how would you know you were talking to the real author and not just somebody that said they were? Later kiddies

Johnwadd

 

[Cockatoo]

A Chicken and an Egg walk into a bar...

Hmmmn. I've got a story that wants to be workshopped. That means that it's finished as an nth draft, not ready to be posted, but I want a few people to read it (casually, not as editors, just general loose feedback) before I post it.

So, if I post it so people can read it before it's posted... then, what, do I RE-post it later, so that it doesn't make the "new stories" list and doesn't get any new readers? Naw.

If there was a secret workshop page (1) where we could "pre-post" things without affecting the status of later, FINAL drafts as "new," (2) that casual readers couldn't get into and catch bad first impressions of us, and (3) that work like the message boards, so conscientious authors and editors who are interested SPECIFICALLY in works-in-progress could open their comments up to the floor so that conversations about these stories could get going... then we'd really have something.

Of course, that's a vast amount of work for Laurel and Manu and the poor exhausted programmers, and I wouldn't dream of actually asking for it. They do way, way, way more than enough. I've played this game indirectly with friends through e-mail, but I regret that my commentors don't have access to each other.

 

[Frederick Carol]

I like this idea, particularly as it would imply an association of writers who care about their work. It could have a downside, as I would decline to comment on certain themes which I find personally distasteful. Provided that any writer involved was up-front about content it could work.

I don't know if Cockatoo's idea of a 'secret workshop page' is feasible or not, but the alternative of a 'round robin' group seems like a workable idea.

WickedAlchemy makes the very valid point that any such group should be kept small and manageable and I would agree with that. But how small is small? I would suggest a maximum of around ten or a dozen. Big enough for variety, small enough to work. I don't know what sort of response WA has had to the original post, but maybe there are already enough to get going.

Fred

 

[Cockatoo]

Well...

... how many people get on a particular thread on these boards in the first place? Ten or a dozen? Especially if it's not a "hot" one, that strikes me as about right. FC's right about the size of it, 'cause it could turn ito a circus.

I imagine that it might be possible to "cap" the group at, say, the first 20 profiles who reply, with as many subsequent posts from that group as they like, but I'm not a programmer and I know not of such things. But hey, if I can shoot people up playing Quake, have heart-to-heart chat sessions with some ICQ favorites and ignore others, turn this thing into an airplane or a TV set or make it do my taxes, why not?

Well, because some poor sucker has to sweat through setting it up, that's why not.

But, I imagine that only two sorts of people would get into workshop pages like I've described in the first place- those that are asked or invited by the guy or gal who's posting a draft, and the guy or gal's fans that go looking for it. If it's clear that it's just a not-ready for prime time draft, the main readership will still go straight for the new page or browse their favorite categories and authors.

But hey, don't look at me, I just work here.

 

[WickedAlchemy]

I agree with cockatoo, a seperate workshop page would be an exquiste idea and with it would come the ability to post visible forms and create a chat rooms and comment boards, the possibilites are endless and mouth watering. However, I also have absolutely no idea how it could be accomplished. Still, plant the seed somewhere and see what grows.

As for the size of the response, Mr Carol has been the only writer to contact me personally. So size right now isn't a huge deal. Still I imagine groups somewhere between five and eight, but a dozen is doable number aswell. The size of the groups should be decided upon within each group. So progress is slow, but hopefully will catch on.

I also understand what cockatoo is saying about the need to have rough drafts workshopped before they go on site. I'm more than willing to read rough drafts if they're added as attachments or what have you. My only concern would be the unscrouplous workshopper who take that draft an post as his or her own. Maybe a waiver can be drawn up or something, I don't know. Cockatoo is right, I'd rather have rougher drafts to edit anyway.

WickedAlchemy

 

[cymbidia]

This is a wonderful idea and we've had variations of this at Lit since i've been around,; in one of them, i was a participant. The problems that arose were twofold, from my perspective.

1. Some people from the group declined to read the kind of stories i write. They certainly wanted me to read and comment on theirs but wouldn't return the favor. I thought that inherently unfair.

2. Many of the writers involved simply faded from sight after others of us had spent time and effort critiquing their stories. They never returned the favor, never offered any criticism in return for those they had already received.

Eventually, the few of us who were left simply tossed our hands into the air and let the reading group slide away into slipstream obscurity.

Please learn from our failure, and good luck in your endeavor.

 

[Mickie]

Perhaps a writter buddy system might be a better idea. Something a little more personal. It takes time to build a team, and not everyone who wants to do it will 'go the length'. It requires committment, and maybe a little proof of ability and committment might help out. Something along the lines of you must do three reviews to get a place on the list. After that it could be you must do one review a week in order to remain on the list. Set down the rules and stick with them, allowing time off for vacations, etc.

With choosing a writer buddy, you could work more closely with a single person, instead of trusting to luck with more. I have more luck doing that, to tell the truth.

Mickie

 

[Cockatoo]

Hmn. I'm thinking I already owe you a review, cym, since you saved "Cold Hands" for me. But I've read your stuff and I can take it. Hell, I love it. Sure, it's severe, but you're the first one to admit that. What are you working on now, hon?

Buddy systems are easy to set up. There are a few people I'm already working with like that. E-mail works well. It would be a simple matter of starting a thread that says "looking for writing buddies," making contact, checking out each other's work, and pairing off privately.

I was thinking that the workshop page might work something like a lodge or fraternal membership thing. You need to apply to get in, stay active to a certain degree, and you can get kicked out if you make an ass of yourself. It propably wouldn't be much different from a moderated BB page.

The advantage of such a thing would be that it can offer more perspectives and be more flexible than the volunteer editor thing- you can post feedback of just a line or two, like "Make Glenda cheer up," or "you confused these two people's names," or "There's a GREAT opportunity for ________ that you missed out on at this one point." Writing an extended constructive critique is work and committment that not everyone can stomach, but the kind of feedback that you get from readers is typically quick, useful, and joyous.

 

[Guest]

I might also be interested in something like this. The idea of having someone look at my storys before they get posted to the site is a good one.

 

[Samuari]

I think that this will work in email rather that\n a board page. On the board there to many folkes looking to run up thier scores with no comitment to actually improving the quality of the writing. Anyone who wants me to read thier stories send them to me in email and I'll get back to you in the next millinlum. Really it will be as soon as time permits, but that may be a while.

Sam

 

[TaffyJ]

C'mon, let's get it on!

I like this idea immensely. I'm sure it's been done before. Cym's comments should be kept in mind. I love feedback from my readers just as much as anybody, but only another writer knows how to give a true critique. The only thing that bothers me is us submitting an unfinished work to someone for copyright reasons. We could use this thread on the board to solve that. Before sending someone a story, we could write a brief message here. This would not be foolproof, but I think it would help. For example:

For the record: TaffyJ sent one draft titled "YaddaYadda" to
WeirdAlchemy for feedback. Category BDSM

I like the idea of not being read until you've written. Keeps things working. Email is probably the only way to do this without bothering anybody. I'd like my stuff checked, but am happy to do someone else's first. My email is taffyj@hotmail.com