Dealing With the Dealing of Depression.

[Joe Wordsworth]

Well, I'm just in totally uncharted territory, personally. M'Girl has been--well, I guess depressed would be about the sum of it. Having never been so, myself, and having had a long history of more-or-less either (1) not believing in it or (2) not respecting it or (3) not ever having had to deal with those that have it... I'm sort of left wondering what the hell I gotta do.

Even saying it, it seems like it should be such a minor thing... something that needs a "cheer up" or more attention or some damn thing.

But, that doesn't appear to work. It's putting a drain on me, now, as the effort it takes to be positive and motivating is getting old (and doesn't seem to matter); and its royally killing my sex life (whether selfish or not to think of it, that's just true); and it makes me all disgruntled and frustrated and unhappy just being around it.

How do you fix it? (that's a rhetorical question, more than anything). How do you deal with people dealing with depression? How (and here's a big one) do you not take it personally, as a reflection on what you're not doing enough of?

This bites.

 

[Samandiriel]

Well, I'm just in totally uncharted territory, personally. M'Girl has been--well, I guess depressed would be about the sum of it. Having never been so, myself, and having had a long history of more-or-less either (1) not believing in it or (2) not respecting it or (3) not ever having had to deal with those that have it... I'm sort of left wondering what the hell I gotta do.

Even saying it, it seems like it should be such a minor thing... something that needs a "cheer up" or more attention or some damn thing.

But, that doesn't appear to work. It's putting a drain on me, now, as the effort it takes to be positive and motivating is getting old (and doesn't seem to matter); and its royally killing my sex life (whether selfish or not to think of it, that's just true); and it makes me all disgruntled and frustrated and unhappy just being around it.

How do you fix it? (that's a rhetorical question, more than anything). How do you deal with people dealing with depression? How (and here's a big one) do you not take it personally, as a reflection on what you're not doing enough of?

This bites.

Depression is hard for the person who is living with a depressed person to deal with, there are good sites out there that can help you understand it better and how you can help. Just be patient and learn what you can, that in itself will be a great help.

 

[AchtungNight]

My best advice is give them time. Time and things they enjoy doing. They will eventually think themselves out of it, one hopes. You can also find plenty of resources on the web. Just google depression. Good luck, friend.

 

[TheEarl]

Well, I'm just in totally uncharted territory, personally. M'Girl has been--well, I guess depressed would be about the sum of it. Having never been so, myself, and having had a long history of more-or-less either (1) not believing in it or (2) not respecting it or (3) not ever having had to deal with those that have it... I'm sort of left wondering what the hell I gotta do.

Even saying it, it seems like it should be such a minor thing... something that needs a "cheer up" or more attention or some damn thing.

But, that doesn't appear to work. It's putting a drain on me, now, as the effort it takes to be positive and motivating is getting old (and doesn't seem to matter); and its royally killing my sex life (whether selfish or not to think of it, that's just true); and it makes me all disgruntled and frustrated and unhappy just being around it.

How do you fix it? (that's a rhetorical question, more than anything). How do you deal with people dealing with depression? How (and here's a big one) do you not take it personally, as a reflection on what you're not doing enough of?

This bites.

You don't fix it. That's the worst mistake you can make. When you're depressed, your personal circumstances don't matter, except in how htey can feed the depression. You can poiint out that she's a healthy, pretty, first-world-citizen, with the world at her feet, but she'll still focus on the badness, cause that keeps her down.

My first advice would be to get her to see a counsellor. If it's genuine depression, rather than just a passing mood, then it's not something you can deal with on your own. You can't fix her and you can't 'snap her out of it', cause hte more you try, the worse she'll feel for not being a bright bubbly person for you.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

If it helps, it has nothing to do with you. Even if it appears to. Depression is solely internal. It may take external things and focus on them, and make them seem like the cause, but the actual cause is internal.

The down has nothing to do with you, and your presence is probably keeping her afloat.

The Earl

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

You don't fix it. That's the worst mistake you can make. When you're depressed, your personal circumstances don't matter, except in how htey can feed the depression. You can poiint out that she's a healthy, pretty, first-world-citizen, with the world at her feet, but she'll still focus on the badness, cause that keeps her down.

My first advice would be to get her to see a counsellor. If it's genuine depression, rather than just a passing mood, then it's not something you can deal with on your own. You can't fix her and you can't 'snap her out of it', cause hte more you try, the worse she'll feel for not being a bright bubbly person for you.

The Earl

Yep, I have had long, sad experience as the partner of a depressed person, and concur with every word of this post. Sympathy is all you can offer, and doing so is draining.

You have my sympathy - BTDT. With my former SO who is still a friend. BTDT last night and today, as a matter of fact.

One point: If we are talking clinical depresssion, she simply must get on the right drugs. You can help push this process along. It doesn't "fix" the problem, but it does eliminate the most extreme, acute symptoms. It's the difference between bearable and not, for both the depressed person and their partner.




Edited to add: There are articles and manuals on what those in your situation can and cannot, should and should not do. They all concur with Earl's point, and offer other useful tips. Sorry I have none hander to refer you to, but a quick net search will discover many.

 

[minsue]

What they said. It's not a quick fix, it's not something you can fix period, and it's not about you.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I don't believe it to be a clinical situation (got a degree in clinical psych, so while not a doctor can see that its not interfering with most basic functions and responsibilities). I believe its... persistant. Maybe even... enduring.

Regardless, I just don't get how to deal with this.

I'm a very "if you're not broken or bleeding, you're fine" kind of person. I grimace at people who thrive on the attention or specialness of self-diagnosed abnormalities that fit within the range of normalcy. That's me.

This? This is... a second hand experience of depression, in some form, and its starting to bruise this relationship.

 

[gauchecritic]

There are lots of people that will advise taking drugs, there are quite a few who will advise not to.

Trying to cheer them up may help keep them afloat, staying out of their way can be helpful. Being concerned and sympathetic can be a boost and in other cases going about your everyday business can give stability.

As many helpful things there are, there are an equal number of opposite and contradictory things which may help.

Those people that I know who've suffered have carried on as usual. There are those who have told me they've suffered have sworn by drug therapy

One thing I've noted via these people is that professional counseling, whilst it may not help, certainly doesn't harm.

My best advice would be not to abandon them.

 

[minsue]

I don't believe it to be a clinical situation (got a degree in clinical psych, so while not a doctor can see that its not interfering with most basic functions and responsibilities). I believe its... persistant. Maybe even... enduring.

Regardless, I just don't get how to deal with this.

I'm a very "if you're not broken or bleeding, you're fine" kind of person. I grimace at people who thrive on the attention or specialness of self-diagnosed abnormalities that fit within the range of normalcy. That's me.

This? This is... a second hand experience of depression, in some form, and its starting to bruise this relationship.

So more like dysthymia than clinical depression?

It can be bruising to a relationship. I've never been on your end of it, but I've certainly seen the damage that can be done.

 

[Antfarmer77]

I'm a very "if you're not broken or bleeding, you're fine" kind of person.

I'm the same kinda person, and I suffer from minor bouts of depression. I always just told myself to suck it up, I didn't have anything to be depressed about, so I just tried to carry on with what needed to be done. Time and patience with her is probably all you can do. Having someone there who cares about you, no matter what, helps eventually.

 

[TheEarl]

I'm a very "if you're not broken or bleeding, you're fine" kind of person. I grimace at people who thrive on the attention or specialness of self-diagnosed abnormalities that fit within the range of normalcy. That's me.

Then I'm not really sure I can help at all. You're insisting that fairies don't exist, whilst asking the aid of people who are on first name terms with them. You can't disdain depression and then ask advice on how to cope with it.

It's not something you apply logic to and if you believe what you're saying, then I think you'd be better off leaving her, because it feels like you're looking to 'cure' her from something you don't believe is even worthy of being labelled an affliction.

The Earl

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I don't believe it to be a clinical situation (got a degree in clinical psych, so while not a doctor can see that its not interfering with most basic functions and responsibilities). I believe its... persistant. Maybe even... enduring.

I guess I should have said "in my personal experience and situation as the partner of a personal with depression" drugs were critical. You have a heck of lot more training than me, but I'm not sure your "counter-indications" are on point. Probably would be good to get your gal into a psychiatrist for an authoritative opinion. When the issue came up in my situation my response was, "What is there to lose? They can't hurt, and if they don't help you can always quit." That seemed to make sense, and in our case they did help.

One other thing, which I will preface by paraphrasing a well known document, "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that relationships long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that partners are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to . . . abolish the relationship to which they are accustomed." In this situation compassion, loyalty, benevolence all dictate that a relationship "not be changed for light and transient causes." All that said, in the final analysis your purpose in life is your own happiness. You do not have a duty to sacrifice that to be a crutch for another adult. I'm sure you will be a good friend and take all measures to avoid that. But when all is said and done, if it's destroying your happiness you have a right to get out, and no one should condemn you for doing so.

 

[3113]

Regardless, I just don't get how to deal with this.

I'm going to give you some advice. It may not work because it really depends on what KIND of depression she has. It might be "that-time-of-the-month" depression, or "that-time-of-the-year" depression and it will vanish on it's own. It might be a change of life or very real sadness over something very real--and that may require her to find herself again. It might be really bad depression that needs outside help.

Or it could be her birth control pills (sure fire clue: if she breaks down crying when you kiss her...it's the pills).

Or it might be depression that can be helped with one of the following. The important thing is this--if they don't work...well, I won't tell you not to get frustrated or angry, but try to accept that these might not work. Depression is very iffy and individual, and there's never any guarantee.

1) If the depression includes crying and upset, do the following. Kneel down beside her and say something like this: "I can see you're really upset and in pain. I'm right here." Gather her into your arms and say, "Tell me what's on your mind. I'll listen for as long as you like."

And then, just listen. Now that's going to probably sound stupid and simplistic but it's amazing how well it works. Depression can be a form of anger, a feeling of being out-of-control. What you're doing is telling the person you take them seriously, they are in control, and you are at their service. It makes an enormous difference, especially if the person feels that no one is listening or understanding them.

Do not offer advice or solutions. Just listen. Then say, "We'll get though this together. I'm here. You don't have to face this alone."

2) Urge the person out of doors for a daily, morning walk. Go with them. "We're going for a walk." Don't be mean, don't bully, but do be firm. Depression has this nasty Catch-22. The person feels exhausted, and unwilling to do anything but go fetal. Yet the one thing that can help is exercise. It's the one thing they need to do--but the one thing they find very difficult to do.

Neither of these are going to be an instant cure. She won't magically snap out of it. But a little exercise could make her feel better and more likely to get more exercise which will make her feel better....etc. till she's out of that hole.

3) Do things and get her mind otherwise occupied: take her to the movies or to a play or to a concert. Music can help her out. Write some new stories and have her read them. Ask her what she thinks of them. The more you get her mind working the less it can sink back down into depression. This can even include sex (exercise AND getting her mind on something else)--but it has to be very gentle sex. Stroke, caress, gently tease, gently kiss, don't force anything. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, but if it happens, keep it slow and gentle.

If none of these do work, and she doesn't get past this soon, then you might want to get some help. These suggestions won't do a bit of good if she is clinically depressed and needs meds to help her out.

For yourself: Depression is real. And it's horrible. The person is trapped in their head with dark thoughts and fears and emotions heavy as lead. They're chained there, and there seems to be no way out. A person yelling through the cell window for them to "snap out of it" and "cheer up" is nonsense.

So what can YOU do so as not to drain yourself and end up leaving in frustration? Well, first, don't take it personally. It's not your fault, and you can no more help her out of it than you could help her walk if she'd just broken her legs. You need to keep that in mind, and let the depression roll off you if that's at all possible.

Second, keep up your own spirits as much as you can. Go out, have fun, masterbate. Yes, I know there's a guilt factor in you enjoying yourself without her, but that's how you're going to be able to say, "Let's go for a walk!" day-after-day till she's better. If you stay with her at home, watching her be depressed, you'll drain yourself. And that's not good for either of you.

I hope this helps some. I understand the need to be pro-active and fix what is broken, but there's no quick or easy fix for depression. You take a stab at making it better--and if you find something that, however slowly, improves things, then you keep that in mind. Because it's doubtful this will be the only time. Those of us who suffer from depression have bouts of it. It will go away...but it can also come back.

Please let us know how it goes.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I'm going to give you some advice . . .

 

[wazhazhe]

Even saying it, it seems like it should be such a minor thing... something that needs a "cheer up" or more attention or some damn thing.

But, that doesn't appear to work. I

Has she seen a psychologist? I think this would be the first step: Determine if she's dealing with clinical depression or something else, and finding an appropriate course of action. Therapy or therapy with medication can work wonders for most people.

She also might consider seeing a physician. After years of dealing with depression, I found a medical school professor whose research deals with hormone levels and depression. It has made a big difference for me. There are also other physical factors that can affect depression.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Joe, regardless of your degree (I have one just like it ) you're too close to diagnose her yourself... if you see what I mean. I'd take her to someone you trust, though... and I happen to be in the non-drug camp for the most part, but that's just my bent... sometimes they can work, if she's also doing therapy concurrently...

if it's actually depression... but you really need a diagnosis first...

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Then I'm not really sure I can help at all. You're insisting that fairies don't exist, whilst asking the aid of people who are on first name terms with them. You can't disdain depression and then ask advice on how to cope with it.

It's not something you apply logic to and if you believe what you're saying, then I think you'd be better off leaving her, because it feels like you're looking to 'cure' her from something you don't believe is even worthy of being labelled an affliction.

The Earl

It should be noted that I'm running a conflict between what I am, generally, and this new experience that demands more of me. /That/ is a notable issue I'm not ignoring.

Joe, regardless of your degree (I have one just like it ) you're too close to diagnose her yourself... if you see what I mean. I'd take her to someone you trust, though... and I happen to be in the non-drug camp for the most part, but that's just my bent... sometimes they can work, if she's also doing therapy concurrently...

if it's actually depression... but you really need a diagnosis first...

Oh, heavens, I wouldn't say I can diagnose anyone--I'm rather hard on people without qualification, in general. I'm just saying that as she functions normally and consistently with day-to-day and other activities (jobs, school, friends more or less, family, bills, etc.) that she's not a clinical case of depression. /What/ it is, or what degree? I don't know.

But clinical disorders are defined by their hinderance or obstruction of normal activity. That's one of the reasons I'm more frustrated than worried.

 

[Huckleman2000]

It should be noted that I'm running a conflict between what I am, generally, and this new experience that demands more of me. /That/ is a notable issue I'm not ignoring.

Oh, heavens, I wouldn't say I can diagnose anyone--I'm rather hard on people without qualification, in general. I'm just saying that as she functions normally and consistently with day-to-day and other activities (jobs, school, friends more or less, family, bills, etc.) that she's not a clinical case of depression. /What/ it is, or what degree? I don't know.

But clinical disorders are defined by their hinderance or obstruction of normal activity. That's one of the reasons I'm more frustrated than worried.

It's not entirely true that clinical disorders are defined that way, although most of them are. Dysthymia is more defined by its persistence over time. In my own case, it's something I've had as long as I can remember, though I never really knew the difference until I went into a clinical depression on top of it. I would describe it sort of like driving with your left foot riding the brake all the time - it can be done, but it impairs performance.

Since this appears to be something that is a quite recent change, that would mostly rule out Dysthymia for the time being, even though the symptoms sound similar in all but their duration. Some symptoms that may not impair "normal" functions are the loss of interest in sex or other activities that formerly gave pleasure, or also sleep disruption - either problems falling asleep or early-morning waking. Over a month or two, people can deal. Over a year or a lifetime, these things really wear you down. Do other people in her family have any history of persistent mental illnesses, such as bipolar?

Other illnesses have symptoms similar to depression, even low-grade. Thyroid diseases sometimes have those symptoms, and some medications have the symptoms as a side-effect. Has your gal changed anything lately, in terms of dosage or starting a new medication?

It could also be hormonal changes, which happen mostly gradually but during some times go faster - I'm thinking of mid-late 20s, when lots of people's metabolism scales back a bit.

Anyway, encourage her to see a physician and come clean with the doc about her symptoms. Like you, many people will not mention "depression-like" symptoms because they think it's something they should be able to overcome on their own. Especially if it is something that neither of you are very familiar with in personal experience.

I mostly agree with 3113's advice, especially about exercise. That's something that works for me, yet it's monumentally difficult to force myself to do it. Don't talk during the walk much, unless she feels like talking. That's not the point - mostly, the exercise uses up some stress hormones (cortisol?) that depressed brains produce to excess, and encourages release of good hormones (endorphins, I think) that are rewarding. Until that all happens, it all just sucks, so don't play tag or "race you to the corner" or shit like that. From your standpoint, you may as well be exercising alone, but at least she can focus on something outside herself to get through it.

That's really the most insidious thing about depression - it is SO inwardly focused, and therefore reinforces its own alienation. Most times, when I'm feeling depressed, I just want to be alone, because I can't imagine ruining everyone else's life, and I don't want to explain it, I just want it to go away or else let me fall asleep.

sometimes writing on understanding Internet forums helps.

 

[scheherazade_79]

I know what you're going through, Joe. I grew up in an unusually stable, secure environment, where the only people I knew who had depression were soap opera characters.

Then I ended up in a relationship where my partner got severe depression. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with, because it felt like there was nothing I could do to make her happy anymore. To cap it all, her thyroid started playing up, and she took to driving like a lunatic and flying into uncontrolled rages.

I have a sister who's a psychologist, but instead I chose to deal with my girlfriend's depression on my own. It was a big mistake, because it took its toll on me.

At the end of the day, you can't be there properly for your girlfriend when something's wearing you down to that extent. Selena's right - you're too close for diagnosis, and you also need back-up when you're going through something like this, just so that you know the world isn't sitting on only your shoulders.

Cut yourself some slack. Take your girlfriend to a psychologist, and use drugs as a last resort.

 

[Pure]

hi joe

i'd say 3113 is right on the mark. listen to her.

 

[English Lady]

First and foremost Joe *hugs* and secondly, I find myself agreeig with Pure, 3113 has given you some top notch advice.

This must be driving you bonkers, as it's obvious that you are a fixer and I know you'd do anything for "my girl." and it is difficult, so very difficult.


Now, as you know, my husband suffers from depression, clinically so. It is so difficult to see someone you love so very much, hurting.
It is, however, amazing how much good a hug and a "I'm here for you" can do.


I think maybe she should see her doctor, if she hasn't already, as it really might help just to have this problem acknowledged and have something to do about it.

I'll keep you both in my prayers, and i know you'll get through this, because you're not the kind of person to give up or to dwell on a problem. Don't feel guilty for thinking selfish things, it's natural. Just realise she really isn't out to upset you and she probably is aware she's upsetting you. Let her know, as 3113 said, that you'll go hrough this together.

 

[impressive]

That's really the most insidious thing about depression - it is SO inwardly focused, and therefore reinforces its own alienation.

Yes, definitely.

Looking back to my darkest days, the things that comforted me the most were: (a) exercise -- even just walking -- when I could force myself to do it; (b) orgasm -- not as sexual pleasure, but simply as the release of endorphins; (c) diet -- "mood food" (high in omega-3s) not "comfort food" (high carb).

Of course, once I really figured those things out, I was well on the road to ... hmm, not recovery ... but balance. The pharmaceuticals only served to level the mood swings for me. I'd say I was closer to "clinical depression" (per Joe's terms) while taking anti-depressants because they made me so apathetic that I did not function.

 

[Recidiva]

This is not at all a diagnostic or complete thought, but it helps me to think about depression like this:

Part of what can make it less frustrating is to realize it's not so much about "thinking."

Thinking can be the way they got there, but it's not the way out. They have to start feeling again. And not all of the pain at once. They need to rehabilitate the ability to feel without any and all input being painful. Rather like someone with a migraine, who feels light and sound as pain, a depressed person can be adversely affected by almost any input. There's no way to process it.

It is rarely something you can talk something into or out of, but it is something that someone has thought themselves into. Once they're there, the pathways to fixing it are exhausted. In a way it's exhaustion with certain realities that can't be changed, or are so solid in their thoughts that there's no change possible. The person who is depressed may see that something can be changed, but that the effort involved can't be accomplished with the energy that they have available.

One of the most insidious aspects is anhedonia. The inability to gain pleasure from normally pleasurable experiences. Once they've gotten to this point, a lot of the biochemical bridges are out. The brain has essentially ceased producing or regulating the brain chemistry that gives pleasure signals.

I compare depression very much to diabetes. Some diabetics can be controlled by controlling a diet. It takes a very careful balance between food intake and sugar intake and insulin, and with enough balance, it can be done.

Whereas some people don't make any insulin and need it in a syringe.

Depression approached in a diabetes model takes a lot of the "thinking" out of it. You don't "think" about raising or lowering your blood sugar. Just like some people can't "think" about their mood raising or lowering with the input given.

Sometimes it just can't happen without some chemical assistance, rehabilitation of thought patterns that have exhausted hope, and building strength and gaining pleasure.

There's a huge societal pressure to be "happy" and "content" and this is crushing for those who can't get there all the time on their own. Because not only are they not happy or content, but nobody can tell them why, or the people that tell you why are wrong, and then they say "But it's so easy, I do it all the time!"

Avoid telling a depressed person "it's easy" or that they can think their way out of it.

It's about as destructive as telling a diabetic they can "think" their way to insulin production.

Somewhere in the middle, engaging the mind, the body chemistry and the mood, so they're working together, is best.

Some people can rehabilitate their brain chemistry by making small adjustments to their life until they can experience pleasure and accomplishment. But it can't be huge, crushing, or like a defibrillator to the chest. It has to be small and encouraging, patient and understanding that this is something that will take time, balance, and effort.

Some people may always need a syringe. Time and effort will tell.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

Some people may always need a syringe. Time and effort will tell.

This is one of the reasons I love you so much. Your mind and heart shows in everything that you say, do and feel