De La Hoya vs. Moseley - Your Pick?
- Thread starter Laurel
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Svedish_Chef
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Ego wins for de la hoya but Moseley will win I think... failing that I hope
ok, now i know the fight game very very well. infact i use to fight in my younger days. this fight is not as good as it seems. De La Hoya is a fighter who is trying to comeback from a very lopsided fight against trinadad and i think he's emotionally scarred.if you want to see a good fighter in this weight class, keep an eye on tony ayala jr.i did a post on him a few monhs ago and belive me that guy can whip some ass.
Irontoto, say what? Whatever your point is, you didn't make it. Tony Ayala Jr. is an old man, boxing wise. He couldn't beat any of the top fighters in his weight class. You said "De La Hoya is a figher who is trying to come back from a very lopsided fight against Trinidad ..." What fight were you watching? Trinidad vs. De La Hoya was one of the closest fights ever. Many experts thought Oscar won.
I saw an old fight on ESPN Classic awhile ago between Hearns and Hagler. Two great fighters but it only went three rounds because they both went right at each other. That's the kind of fight I predict tonight; a war. I think De La Hoya will knock out Moseley within the first five rounds. Of course, Sugar Shane could get real cutesy and Oscar might have trouble catching him. Would be smart on Sugar's part but I think he'll come to rumble. Oscar will. I don't see him utilizing a tactical strategy like he did against Trinidad.
Whether Oscar wins or loses, he's headed right for another huge payday. If he wins, it's on to fight Trinidad again or Vargas. If Moseley wins, he'll fight a rematch with De La Hoya. That's where the big money is.
Diego Corrales and Erik Morales are also fighting tonight. Unfortunately not each other. Butterbean and Mia St. John are also fighting. Unfortunately not each other.
It appears that Laurel and I are the only ones on this BB who know squat about boxing. The rest of you should get educated!
I for one will be watching the fight. I'm going to a family reunion today and then everyone who wants to see the fight is heading over to my father's house. My father dragged me to my first title fight when I was in kindergarten or thereabouts. I slept through it so the story goes. I'm sure I'll hear that story again tonight for about the hundredth time. Years later the local guy who fought the champ opened a sports bar which was one of my favorite hang-outs. Hence my interest in boxing. You learn the lingo or be a bimbo.
Hey Laurel, great job on the BB! Kudos to you and Manu!
I saw an old fight on ESPN Classic awhile ago between Hearns and Hagler. Two great fighters but it only went three rounds because they both went right at each other. That's the kind of fight I predict tonight; a war. I think De La Hoya will knock out Moseley within the first five rounds. Of course, Sugar Shane could get real cutesy and Oscar might have trouble catching him. Would be smart on Sugar's part but I think he'll come to rumble. Oscar will. I don't see him utilizing a tactical strategy like he did against Trinidad.
Whether Oscar wins or loses, he's headed right for another huge payday. If he wins, it's on to fight Trinidad again or Vargas. If Moseley wins, he'll fight a rematch with De La Hoya. That's where the big money is.
Diego Corrales and Erik Morales are also fighting tonight. Unfortunately not each other. Butterbean and Mia St. John are also fighting. Unfortunately not each other.
It appears that Laurel and I are the only ones on this BB who know squat about boxing. The rest of you should get educated!
I for one will be watching the fight. I'm going to a family reunion today and then everyone who wants to see the fight is heading over to my father's house. My father dragged me to my first title fight when I was in kindergarten or thereabouts. I slept through it so the story goes. I'm sure I'll hear that story again tonight for about the hundredth time. Years later the local guy who fought the champ opened a sports bar which was one of my favorite hang-outs. Hence my interest in boxing. You learn the lingo or be a bimbo.
Hey Laurel, great job on the BB! Kudos to you and Manu!
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Deborah said:
Oh shut it Deborah! I am a former sports journalist and the publisher of sports web-sites ...I'm probably the only one on the BB whose far from unusual Friday was spent in business meetings with a former pro boxer, a current boxing promotor and manager and Europe's leading boxing MC. Oscar to win but Moseley to last 8.
Laurel
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I don't really know anything about boxing but what I do klnow is that England are playing Germany in the EURO 2000 tomorrow night. We haven't beaten them since the 1966 World Cup Final but one day victory shall be ours...
I heard Posh Spice's boyfriend gave his fans the Finger! You need to give that boy lessons in being a gentleman, Flagg...
Butterbean and Mia St. John are also fighting. Unfortunately not each other.
You know, I think I'd PPV that one...
The interesting thing about this fight is that there's so much emotionally invested by each fighter. Shane's been waiting for this match-up for years and years. Oscar's still coming off the Trinidad fiasco. We'll all have to meet back here post-fight & compare notes...
Oh shut it Deborah! I am a former sports journalist and the publisher of sports web-sites ...I'm
probably the only one on the BB whose far from unusual Friday was spent in business meetings
with a former pro boxer, a current boxing promotor and manager and Europe's leading boxing MC.
Really? That's funny, 'cause to me you look like... an Unregistered User! Register, then we'lll talk about your creds... Until then, you can claim all the cred you want but without verification you could be Fake Name's brother for all we know! C'mon, register & join the party!
I heard Posh Spice's boyfriend gave his fans the Finger! You need to give that boy lessons in being a gentleman, Flagg...
Butterbean and Mia St. John are also fighting. Unfortunately not each other.
You know, I think I'd PPV that one...
The interesting thing about this fight is that there's so much emotionally invested by each fighter. Shane's been waiting for this match-up for years and years. Oscar's still coming off the Trinidad fiasco. We'll all have to meet back here post-fight & compare notes...
Oh shut it Deborah! I am a former sports journalist and the publisher of sports web-sites ...I'm
probably the only one on the BB whose far from unusual Friday was spent in business meetings
with a former pro boxer, a current boxing promotor and manager and Europe's leading boxing MC.
Really? That's funny, 'cause to me you look like... an Unregistered User! Register, then we'lll talk about your creds... Until then, you can claim all the cred you want but without verification you could be Fake Name's brother for all we know! C'mon, register & join the party!
Hullo_nurse
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I odn't know squat about boxing, but I saw that the Goddess Deborah posted here & I wanted to say hello to her sweet sasy self!!
http://geocities.com/r337m0nk3y/legionxs/wavey.gif HI DEBORAH!!
http://geocities.com/r337m0nk3y/legionxs/wavey.gif HI DEBORAH!!
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Good move on your part, irontonto, saying over 200 words of deborah's and 6 of yours. Makes you almost sound like you have a brain bigger than a pea.
And you are a cop, irontonto? Is it any wonder there are so many criminals on the loose?
OK, irontonto, let's here how you scored the fight, round by round. You too, antideborah.
And you are a cop, irontonto? Is it any wonder there are so many criminals on the loose?
OK, irontonto, let's here how you scored the fight, round by round. You too, antideborah.
Svedish_Chef
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Easy thing to say from the bleachers BUT I picked it!
da Chef
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Laurel
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Go Mosley!
I know this'll sound like bs, but I've never thought De La Hoya was all that. He punches hard, but he moves like an old man in the ring - head down, one-stepping around the ring... Mosley's so much more athletic, moves more fluidly... I didn't think either of them were at their best in this fight. I was annoyed to see Sugar Shane start off so well in the first round, then stop throwing punches till the 6th round. What was he thinking? But Oscar... I think this shows that while he has talent, he's not the Superman his press people have made him out to be. Both fighters are more heroic than Roy Jones, though - they took on tough opponents, whereas Jones won't take a fight with anyone worth a damn. Both are very humble and are the epitome of sportsmanship (with the possible exception of Mosley's occasional inadvertent rabbit punches), and both are heroes. I'd love to see a rematch - assuming De La Hoya doesn't decide to retire first (though if he were smart, he'd take on the rematch as his last fight and pick up another $10 mill on the way out the door)...
I know this'll sound like bs, but I've never thought De La Hoya was all that. He punches hard, but he moves like an old man in the ring - head down, one-stepping around the ring... Mosley's so much more athletic, moves more fluidly... I didn't think either of them were at their best in this fight. I was annoyed to see Sugar Shane start off so well in the first round, then stop throwing punches till the 6th round. What was he thinking? But Oscar... I think this shows that while he has talent, he's not the Superman his press people have made him out to be. Both fighters are more heroic than Roy Jones, though - they took on tough opponents, whereas Jones won't take a fight with anyone worth a damn. Both are very humble and are the epitome of sportsmanship (with the possible exception of Mosley's occasional inadvertent rabbit punches), and both are heroes. I'd love to see a rematch - assuming De La Hoya doesn't decide to retire first (though if he were smart, he'd take on the rematch as his last fight and pick up another $10 mill on the way out the door)...
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De La Hoya vs. Mosley
Laurel, I don't know how you can say that Roy Jones Jr. isn't heroic. In my opinion, there is simply no one who comes close to him in his class. The Mosley/DeLaHoya fight was a good fight, but not as good as some analyst lead you to believe. In my opinion DeLaHoya is the better pure boxer, but Mosley went into the ring for a reason, and that was to show that he should be reckoned with. DeLaHoya to me just doesn't fight like he there's to win. Mosley simply outhustled him, and you could tell Mosley was excited to fight. DeLaHoya is not a natural boxer. He has the physical skills, but mentally, he's not a true boxer. Boxers are people who you usually don't see recording songs, and you don't see them talking about how they just want to come out with a clean face. DeLaHoya expects judges to give him the fight, and that just isn't the case. I defintely commend DeLaHoya on taking the toughest opponents possible. Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad, and Mosley are all among the best. DeLaHoya in my opinion beat Trinidad, and totally out-classed him. Hopefully, DeLaHoya will not retire and decide that he will not only have to work hard at his training site in Big Bear, but that he'll have to work harder inside the ring. I have respect for Mosley, and his father, unlike Trinidad and his father who want all the money in the rematch and all they do is talk considering Trinidad was unimpressive in the fight. The Mosley camp straight up said they'll do a rematch because DeLaHoya was man enough to fight him in the first place.
Laurel, since you say Roy Jones doesn't take on the best, I would like you to list somebody in his weight class who would stand a chance.
Laurel, I don't know how you can say that Roy Jones Jr. isn't heroic. In my opinion, there is simply no one who comes close to him in his class. The Mosley/DeLaHoya fight was a good fight, but not as good as some analyst lead you to believe. In my opinion DeLaHoya is the better pure boxer, but Mosley went into the ring for a reason, and that was to show that he should be reckoned with. DeLaHoya to me just doesn't fight like he there's to win. Mosley simply outhustled him, and you could tell Mosley was excited to fight. DeLaHoya is not a natural boxer. He has the physical skills, but mentally, he's not a true boxer. Boxers are people who you usually don't see recording songs, and you don't see them talking about how they just want to come out with a clean face. DeLaHoya expects judges to give him the fight, and that just isn't the case. I defintely commend DeLaHoya on taking the toughest opponents possible. Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad, and Mosley are all among the best. DeLaHoya in my opinion beat Trinidad, and totally out-classed him. Hopefully, DeLaHoya will not retire and decide that he will not only have to work hard at his training site in Big Bear, but that he'll have to work harder inside the ring. I have respect for Mosley, and his father, unlike Trinidad and his father who want all the money in the rematch and all they do is talk considering Trinidad was unimpressive in the fight. The Mosley camp straight up said they'll do a rematch because DeLaHoya was man enough to fight him in the first place.
Laurel, since you say Roy Jones doesn't take on the best, I would like you to list somebody in his weight class who would stand a chance.
Laurel
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Boxers are people who you usually don't see recording songs
Doesn't Roy Jones have an album coming out, too? I know he and the Prince do enough singing during their entrances...
Laurel, since you say Roy Jones doesn't take on the best, I would like you to list somebody in his weight class who would stand a chance.
Well, he needs to do what Mosley did - move up a few classes and take on Lennox Lewis as I think he's hinted at in the past, rather than allow his career to be defined by a bunch of mismatches.
Actually, a Lewis/Jones fight would be a mismatch, too - just in the other direction.
Doesn't Roy Jones have an album coming out, too? I know he and the Prince do enough singing during their entrances...
Laurel, since you say Roy Jones doesn't take on the best, I would like you to list somebody in his weight class who would stand a chance.
Well, he needs to do what Mosley did - move up a few classes and take on Lennox Lewis as I think he's hinted at in the past, rather than allow his career to be defined by a bunch of mismatches.
Actually, a Lewis/Jones fight would be a mismatch, too - just in the other direction.
Boxers are people who you usually don't see recording songs
The other day Carl Lewis was taking a late supper at the same quiet nouvelle-Japanese restaurant that my girlfriend and I were enjoying. The staff was all atwitter, but me? I was glad that they didn't offer to play his CD.
FWIW, I could overhear his conversation, which was all about entertainment deals. You want to see someone run fast, watch me next time he heads for the mike.
Well, [Roy Jones] needs to do what Mosley did - move up a few classes and take on Lennox Lewis as I think he's hinted at in the past, rather than allow his career to be defined by a bunch of mismatches.
Actually, a Lewis/Jones fight would be a mismatch, too - just in the other direction.
Jones has already moved up significantly from middleweight to light heavy/cruiserweight -- I'm not sure there much upside to his getting any bigger.
Jones has said that be would be willing to get a little bigger to fight Tyson (who is basically the same height and 210-220 when in shape), but that the giants heavies were not in the cards. He would be spotting someone like Lewis six inches and 50-60 lbs -- too much for anyone this side of Billy Conn to concede.
Boxing is a strange and terrible business, with the most brutal action outside the ring in the sordid world of rankings, managers, and promotions. It is very difficult for a talented independent such as Jones (who was it who said that the self-employeed have a fool for a boss?) to get quality fights. In the end, Jones moved up because there was no way Don King was going to let him near his title-holders.
I think that Jones would have fought them for free, simply for the challenge, but his unwillingness to become another King pawn forced him to redefine his his career.
The other day Carl Lewis was taking a late supper at the same quiet nouvelle-Japanese restaurant that my girlfriend and I were enjoying. The staff was all atwitter, but me? I was glad that they didn't offer to play his CD.
FWIW, I could overhear his conversation, which was all about entertainment deals. You want to see someone run fast, watch me next time he heads for the mike.
Well, [Roy Jones] needs to do what Mosley did - move up a few classes and take on Lennox Lewis as I think he's hinted at in the past, rather than allow his career to be defined by a bunch of mismatches.
Actually, a Lewis/Jones fight would be a mismatch, too - just in the other direction.
Jones has already moved up significantly from middleweight to light heavy/cruiserweight -- I'm not sure there much upside to his getting any bigger.
Jones has said that be would be willing to get a little bigger to fight Tyson (who is basically the same height and 210-220 when in shape), but that the giants heavies were not in the cards. He would be spotting someone like Lewis six inches and 50-60 lbs -- too much for anyone this side of Billy Conn to concede.
Boxing is a strange and terrible business, with the most brutal action outside the ring in the sordid world of rankings, managers, and promotions. It is very difficult for a talented independent such as Jones (who was it who said that the self-employeed have a fool for a boss?) to get quality fights. In the end, Jones moved up because there was no way Don King was going to let him near his title-holders.
I think that Jones would have fought them for free, simply for the challenge, but his unwillingness to become another King pawn forced him to redefine his his career.
Roy Jones moved up in weight because he got bigger. I don't think he possibly could go back down to 160 even for a huge money fight against Trinidad, etc.
I think Jones would have a chance against Lennox Lewis because I don't think Lewis would optimize his size advantage, by trying to rough Jones up. Also, Jones does not rely on a jab, but rather on quick power punches and an unorthodox style, which would further negate Lewis' size advantage. Jones fighting Tyson or David Tua might be a mistake because they likely would try to maul him and take advantage of their weight advantage.
I see the replay of De La Hoya vs. Moseley is going to be shown on HBO this Saturday night. I have now watched the fight numerous times and here is my post-fight analysis ...
Oh yeah, I took a shot in the dark and said Oscar would knock him out within five rounds. I based that on both saying they were out to knock the other out and Moseley even said it would be like Hagler vs. Hearns.
Moseley lied but fought a smart fight. He came out like he wanted to rumble in round one but then adopted a backing-up, jabbing and counter-punching strategy for the next 6 rounds. If Sugar Shane would have fought the entire fight like he did the first and final rounds, perhaps there would have been a KO, one way or the other. Moseley got the decision but should not have got the title. The proper score for this fight was either 115-113 for De La Hoya (which was the score of the only judge who got it right) or 114-114, a draw, in which case Oscar keeps the title.
Watch the replay and convince me I'm wrong. Moseley decisively won rounds 1 and 9 thru 12. De La Hoya decisively won rounds 2 through 7. Round 8 is the one that is questionable. I gave it to Oscar but I can see how others could give it to Sugar Shane.
Giving round 7 to Moseley which many did is a joke. It was not much different than the previous 5 rounds. Oscar threw 65 punches and connected on 26. Shane threw 46 punches and connected on 15.
Yes Laurel, I certainly agree with you that both of these guys are class acts and rather refreshing when compared to most of the boxing establishment. Anyway, it was a great fight and I'd certainly like to see a rematch.
I think Jones would have a chance against Lennox Lewis because I don't think Lewis would optimize his size advantage, by trying to rough Jones up. Also, Jones does not rely on a jab, but rather on quick power punches and an unorthodox style, which would further negate Lewis' size advantage. Jones fighting Tyson or David Tua might be a mistake because they likely would try to maul him and take advantage of their weight advantage.
I see the replay of De La Hoya vs. Moseley is going to be shown on HBO this Saturday night. I have now watched the fight numerous times and here is my post-fight analysis ...
Oh yeah, I took a shot in the dark and said Oscar would knock him out within five rounds. I based that on both saying they were out to knock the other out and Moseley even said it would be like Hagler vs. Hearns.
Moseley lied but fought a smart fight. He came out like he wanted to rumble in round one but then adopted a backing-up, jabbing and counter-punching strategy for the next 6 rounds. If Sugar Shane would have fought the entire fight like he did the first and final rounds, perhaps there would have been a KO, one way or the other. Moseley got the decision but should not have got the title. The proper score for this fight was either 115-113 for De La Hoya (which was the score of the only judge who got it right) or 114-114, a draw, in which case Oscar keeps the title.
Watch the replay and convince me I'm wrong. Moseley decisively won rounds 1 and 9 thru 12. De La Hoya decisively won rounds 2 through 7. Round 8 is the one that is questionable. I gave it to Oscar but I can see how others could give it to Sugar Shane.
Giving round 7 to Moseley which many did is a joke. It was not much different than the previous 5 rounds. Oscar threw 65 punches and connected on 26. Shane threw 46 punches and connected on 15.
Yes Laurel, I certainly agree with you that both of these guys are class acts and rather refreshing when compared to most of the boxing establishment. Anyway, it was a great fight and I'd certainly like to see a rematch.
Roy Jones moved up in weight because he got bigger. I don't think he possibly could go back down to 160 even for a huge money fight against Trinidad, etc.
Jones was superbly conditioned and seemed to possess the preternaturally driven mindset necessary to maintain any weight class; he might have inevitably outgrown middleweight, but I am certain he would stayed at super mid if it had been warranted. He says he has to force himself to keep adding weight, and I tend to believe him -- even now, he is neither overmuscled nor fat. That said, I think that it would be imprudent for him to drop 20+ pounds at this stage of his career (as it would be for anyone).
I think Jones would have a chance against Lennox Lewis because I don't think Lewis would optimize his size advantage, by trying to rough Jones up.
Lewis is clearly not the second coming of George Foreman, but I think that his throw weight and reach advantages would be prohibitive. Also, Jone's power would be diminished by Lewis' bulk and stronger (but not better) blocking. Getting trapped in the corner could be dispositive if not terminal for Jones.
Also, Jones does not rely on a jab, but rather on quick power punches and an unorthodox style, which would further negate Lewis' size advantage.
Jones is certainly unorthodox, but I don't know if he can play the clown against legitimate heavyweight power without eventually paying a stiff price. Even at 190 lbs., Jones would undoubtedly be able to slip punches and push his footspeed advantage, but I think that in the end his style would afford neither sufficient offense nor defense against a credible big heavyweight. There are plenty of giant stiffs, but quality big man would likely put him on his back.
Power is the ultimate factor here, and the bottom line is that Jones would take a beating covering up on defense in exchange for delivering relatively watered-down punches. Devastating power against a 160-pounder is a love tap on a 250-lb. heavyweight.
By way of comparison, consider Tyson fighting his various tall opponents. He got most of them, but especially later in his career he looked like Mighty Mouse launching the cartoonish looping uppercuts necessary to reach their chins. Tyson, of course, did excellent body work and had vastly superior power that enabled him to prevail despite his limitations, but Jones' speed would probably not be enough. Jones is quirky enough to have a chance where others would have none, but neither he nor I would bet on it.
Jones fighting Tyson or David Tua might be a mistake because they likely would try to maul him and take advantage of their weight advantage.
Jones would indeed have serious problems with any decent heavyweight who took the fight to him and keep up the inside pressure to neutralize his hand- and footspeed. He would certainly have a chance to flash something to the chin in the scrum, but a huge brawler would certainly be trouble. At this point, the greatly diminished Tyson would seem a far safer match than a behemoth like Lewis.
Guys like Foreman and Frazier would have killed Jones, and that's no knock on one of the greatest fighters ever -- any more than saying Willie Pep would have been carried out of the ring on a stretcher after fighting Jones.
Jones was superbly conditioned and seemed to possess the preternaturally driven mindset necessary to maintain any weight class; he might have inevitably outgrown middleweight, but I am certain he would stayed at super mid if it had been warranted. He says he has to force himself to keep adding weight, and I tend to believe him -- even now, he is neither overmuscled nor fat. That said, I think that it would be imprudent for him to drop 20+ pounds at this stage of his career (as it would be for anyone).
I think Jones would have a chance against Lennox Lewis because I don't think Lewis would optimize his size advantage, by trying to rough Jones up.
Lewis is clearly not the second coming of George Foreman, but I think that his throw weight and reach advantages would be prohibitive. Also, Jone's power would be diminished by Lewis' bulk and stronger (but not better) blocking. Getting trapped in the corner could be dispositive if not terminal for Jones.
Also, Jones does not rely on a jab, but rather on quick power punches and an unorthodox style, which would further negate Lewis' size advantage.
Jones is certainly unorthodox, but I don't know if he can play the clown against legitimate heavyweight power without eventually paying a stiff price. Even at 190 lbs., Jones would undoubtedly be able to slip punches and push his footspeed advantage, but I think that in the end his style would afford neither sufficient offense nor defense against a credible big heavyweight. There are plenty of giant stiffs, but quality big man would likely put him on his back.
Power is the ultimate factor here, and the bottom line is that Jones would take a beating covering up on defense in exchange for delivering relatively watered-down punches. Devastating power against a 160-pounder is a love tap on a 250-lb. heavyweight.
By way of comparison, consider Tyson fighting his various tall opponents. He got most of them, but especially later in his career he looked like Mighty Mouse launching the cartoonish looping uppercuts necessary to reach their chins. Tyson, of course, did excellent body work and had vastly superior power that enabled him to prevail despite his limitations, but Jones' speed would probably not be enough. Jones is quirky enough to have a chance where others would have none, but neither he nor I would bet on it.
Jones fighting Tyson or David Tua might be a mistake because they likely would try to maul him and take advantage of their weight advantage.
Jones would indeed have serious problems with any decent heavyweight who took the fight to him and keep up the inside pressure to neutralize his hand- and footspeed. He would certainly have a chance to flash something to the chin in the scrum, but a huge brawler would certainly be trouble. At this point, the greatly diminished Tyson would seem a far safer match than a behemoth like Lewis.
Guys like Foreman and Frazier would have killed Jones, and that's no knock on one of the greatest fighters ever -- any more than saying Willie Pep would have been carried out of the ring on a stretcher after fighting Jones.
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When I said that "Boxers are people who you usually don't see recording songs" I didn't mean it literally. Let me try to explain. Oscar DeLaHoya is not what you would say is the prototypical boxer, he is more like a sensitive kid who doesn't have the mindset of killing. Most boxers spend their time focusing on the ring, and DeLaHoya does to, as you can see by the shape he is in. However, most boxers don't spend their time singing about love, and most boxers don't talk about how he just wants to get out of the ring without a bruise. Of course all think that, but DeLaHoya will come out and say it in a manner that portrays him as someone who really doesn't want to fight. DeLaHoya in my opinion is too soft for the boxing game. Physically, he's extremely gifted. It goes back to the old saying, he's a lover, not a boxer.
