Dates in Dialog

[sr71plt]

I don't see the need to apologize. Ogg seems to be making suggestions on how to avoid using terms and/or suggesting that the terms aren't important to use. This is a false argument. What should be given is how to render what the writer wants to put in his/her work, not question why he/she would want to do it.

And I think your earlier question was a good one. Who, even the British, say on "11 November 1911 I walked over the hill"--except in badly written B-level combat movie scripts?

As to his first comment, readers most definitely do stop to ponder intrusively when they read renderings they aren't used to reading. That's the whole point to standardize terms and renderings that you don't want the reader to trip over and that stop the flow of the read.

 

[driphoney]

I don't see the need to apologize. Ogg seems to be making suggestions on how to avoid using terms and/or suggesting that the terms aren't important to use. This is a false argument. What should be given is how to render what the writer wants to put in his/her work, not question why he/she would want to do it.

And I think your earlier question was a good one. Who, even the British, say on "11 November 1911 I walked over the hill"--except in badly written B-level combat movie scripts?

As to his first comment, readers most definitely do stop to ponder intrusively when they read renderings they aren't used to reading. That's the whole point to standardize terms and renderings that you don't want the reader to trip over and that stop the flow of the read.

I feel like I'm talking about a person while he's standing there, but ...

I felt he did address the very thing I was slightly picking on in his previous comment. You're right, though, about the dialogue comment, if Ogg was overlooking with his second comment, the realistic usage of dates. Is there no accepted grammar usage manual in the UK?

 

[sr71plt]

Is there no accepted grammar usage manual in the UK?

The two UK publishers I've edited for (Oxford and Continuum) used the (gasp!) Chicago Manual of Style.

I trust there must be a different British one, though. I'm sure the UK writers here must use more then personal preference and guessandbygolly (), so no doubt they can answer the question.

 

[oggbashan]

... Is there no accepted grammar usage manual in the UK?

The usual advice is to use the Oxford series of books on grammar and style. There isn't a universally accepted style manual as CMS is for US English. As I posted above, UK publishers have their own style advice.

If you are writing for world-wide publication then CMS is the preferred standard even for British writers.

UK publishers accept far more variation of style for fiction than US publishers do. Experimental, peculiar and even perverse styles can be published as long as they are internally consistent.

US and British English are not the only forms. Books can be published in the UK in Hinglish (Indian sub-continent English); Chinglish (Chinese English); West Indian English; Rap; Street and so on. Many of those would give the CMS compilers heart attacks.

Academic and scientific publications are different. If written in English they follow international practice whether published in the US, UK, Germany, China, Russia etc. but the style is usually bland and boring.

Back to previous posts:

1. I am agreeing with sr71plt that if you are writing for publication then you should follow the publishers recommended or mandatory style but in British English there is no single equivalent of the CMS.

2. My post about numbers in dialogue was less about following the CMS and more about how dialogue is presented in text. I can envisage a scenario in which dates are important in dialogue e.g.

"Would you like a glass of sherry?"

"No thank you. I can't stand it now."

"Now? Why not?"

"On Armistice Day 11 November 1918 I was beside my mother as she was arranging the flowers on her father's grave. When she went home there were two telegrams telling her that both my brothers had been killed in the last few days of the war. Every 11 November she and I used to drown our sorrows in sherry. This November I'll pour a libation of sherry on her grave. I can't stand it now. The memories are too painful."

 

[sr71plt]

"On Armistice Day 11 November 1918 I was beside my mother as she was arranging the flowers on her father's grave. When she went home there were two telegrams telling her that both my brothers had been killed in the last few days of the war. Every 11 November she and I used to drown our sorrows in sherry. This November I'll pour a libation of sherry on her grave. I can't stand it now. The memories are too painful."

For the record, CMS includes that construction as an option in its guidance on date rendering and examples. It just doesn't include that as the only option--and it isn't the option that most U.S. publishers prefer. Military books often use it, though. A lot of the books I edit use this construction--but they aren't fiction books, with dialog.