Daddy Owe!

[Mensa]

Was involved in an interesting panel discussion that posed this question. We came to a loose concensus but I'm curious what others might think.

The postulate:

With the advent of abortion-on-demand (pro-choice or pro-life arguments notwithstanding), what role do paternity suits play today? Should they be dropped from the law books?

Consider this scenario:

A woman becomes pregnant but decides she does not want the responsibility of raising a child, for whatever reason. The father of the child decides he would like to raise it, tries to prevent the mother from aborting. Courts decide ( as they invariably do) that the woman has pre-eminence over her own body and allows the abortion to proceed. The woman has the sole right to decide whether she keeps the child or not, the father's concerns are of secondary consideration.

Second scenario:

Woman becomes pregnant and decides she wants the child. Father of child feels unprepared or unable to be a father, asks that the child be aborted. Because the mother wants it, no abortion is performed. Child is born. Mother takes father to court for child support.(often with this scenario, the mother accepts sole responsibility for raising the child, but not always.)

Third scenario:

Woman becomes pregnant, has child. Father is completely unaware of the child's existence until he's served with papers claiming he's the biological father and is being sued for child support.

Consideration:

Should fathers in either or both scenarios be compelled to pay child support. Or does the mother's decision to have the child imply tacit acceptance of responsibility for it's rearing, considering, with abortion freedom, she's no longer forced to have the child?

 

[Cheyenne]

bump to the top

This was started in the middle of the night!

Offhand, I'd say none of the scenarios let the father out of the obligation of support. Because the female has a potential solution to the "problem" does not let the male out of being part of the "problem" in the first place.

Dad's time to pick his solution of no support was before he fucked mom. Abortion is NOT a solution for all moms, either.

 

[Mensa]

Bad girl! Very bad girl!!

bump to the top

This was started in the middle of the night!

Offhand, I'd say none of the scenarios let the father out of the obligation of support. Because the female has a potential solution to the "problem" does not let the male out of being part of the "problem" in the first place.

Dad's time to pick his solution of no support was before he fucked mom. Abortion is NOT a solution for all moms, either.

WOMEN!!! Why do they never do as told? I told you not to go back there! I left it in the closet for a purpose, I was hoping to suffocate it. But no! You had to drag it, kicking and screaming, into the front parlour for everyone to see.

Cheyenne! You need a good spanking!!

 

[Cheyenne]

hehe. Don't you know I usually do the OPPOSITE of whatever I'm told to do? I don't follow directions well, unless you're my boss and you're paying me to do as you say. Everyone else? Fat chance. Besides, it is a good topic.

 

[lavender]

 

[Morden]

I think if the Mother does not inform the Father of the childs existance, and he can prove he is unaware of the existance of said child, then he is not responsible for the Child. There is no way the father should be made to pay for back dues if he was unaware he was even a father. Of course there would be the odd exception such as when a father dissapears on purpose but then the burden would be on the mother to prove he ran and hid.
Now if the mother choses to not abort and the man wants her to then the guy is SOL. It is in a lot of ways unfortunate for the man but taking into consideration the effects that abortions can have on a woman in the long run, its a fair trade off. Its not something that should be rushed into or taken likely.

 

[cymbidia]

Law: Except in extremely rare cases, caes involving pre-determined legalities (like anonymous sperm donors for infertile couples, for example), the biological father is responsible for the child whether or not he even knew the child existed.

Morality: He caused that person to come into existence, therefore he is responsible for that person's life. If he didn't want to be involved in even the remote possiblity of a pregnancy, then he should not have done anything that lead to the union and subsequent viability of a sperm-meets-egg scenario.

In every single case, a woman should have the right to decide for herself wht to do about the unwanted pregnancy. That decision can only be made between her and her (idea of) god. The father, unfortunately, doesn't get a big vote in this one.

 

[Cheyenne]

Dad's time to pick his solution of no support was before he fucked mom.

All the women are agreeing with me. Just saying the same thing I did only using much nicer words.

 

[Mensa]

Variations

Should ability to pay be considered?

What if, in scenario three, the male honestly believed the female was employing contraceptives? Would that have any bearing?

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Variations

Should ability to pay be considered?

What if, in scenario three, the male honestly believed the female was employing contraceptives? Would that have any bearing?

Nope, no bearing at all in my book. He could add a condom to protect himself from getting her pregnant if he really wanted to be sure.

Of course, all birth control can fail, too. The woman shouldn't have to bear the brunt of that failure without the man also feeling the effects.

 

[Morden]

Ability to pay would be nice to be considered. though I highly doubt it. the courts aren't known for that from what I know of. Especially now, wiht the new statute laws up here in Canada.

 

[KillerMuffin]

A woman in today's society discovers that she's pregnant, she gets the choice of deciding whether she wants to be a mother or not. She can decide if the pregnancy will be completed or not. A man does not get that choice. Call it Men's Suffrage.

Personally, I believe in equality of the sexes. If a woman can have the choice after the fact of conception, then a man ought to have that choice as well. I'm pro-life, I don't think that choice ought to be made outside of extenuating circumstances, but that's not the way things are.

Call me callous, but if a woman gets pregnant from a casual encounter or otherwise then the father who would be equally as responsible should have the same decision making capability before birth on whether he wants to be a father or not. It takes two to fuck, two to make a baby, and two to be responsible for it afterward. A man should not be forced into being a father by a woman who is not being forced into being a mother. He can't make a woman abort or carry out a child, but he should have the option to sign away all rights to the child and all responsibility. If he knew about the child to begin with and voiced his opinion about having it and raising it, then his wishes should have as much respect about her wishes in having it and raising it. This has nothing to do with a measly 9 months of time but everything to do with the next 18 years of parental responsibility, financial responsibility, legal responsibility and everything else. A 9 month inconvenience is nothing compared to years of it.

Because she is no longer forced to have the responsibility of a child, I don't think he should either. In this instance the Pro-Choice has nothing to do with choice because choice implies equality. There is no equality when one person gets to choose and the other has absolutely no say. There is no choice.

 

[Tabby432]

All the women are agreeing with me. Just saying the same thing I did only using much nicer words.

I don't agree. If a women has a child outside of marriage then I feel it is her responsibilty to take care of that child in every situation.

 

[Cheyenne]

*bump*

 

[Andra_Jenny]

The postulate:

With the advent of abortion-on-demand (pro-choice or pro-life arguments notwithstanding), what role do paternity suits play today? Should they be dropped from the law books?

Jesus Fucking Christ!

Why don't you spilt a fewe more hairs!

This is why I adopted in China! To be free of the American Judicial System!


If you do not abort and decide to adopt out, you make life a living hell for anyone that would take that child. If one parent sues to have a child and then decides, no...

I AM DRUNK, SORRY!

 

[Mustang Sally]

Ability to pay would be nice to be considered. though I highly doubt it. the courts aren't known for that from what I know of. Especially now, wiht the new statute laws up here in Canada.

Judges DO consider ability to pay, in the form of determining how MUCH he should pay. I proofread court judgements at work.

One in particular I remember, some asshole was stuck paying three different women child support and was whining about it... tough luck mister. He only had to pay something like $35 a month to one of them, due to his low income and multiple responsibilities.

My dad convinced my mom no court would make him pay because SHE was leaving HIM. She was very young, and non-confrontational by nature, so she didn't argue. What an asshole. (him, not her)

It takes two to make a baby, and they ain't cheap.

 

[Morden]

Well I know with my divorce pending this subject causes some fear in me. I took most of the debt when I left and had to get a new job cause I was sitting the kid. I barely have enough to scrape by as is sometimes. I send her all that I can. The good news is we are not enemies. We will work something out. I just hope my son doesn't grow up to hate me because my ex and my marriage didn't work out.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Man, my parents stayed together.
I was beaten daily.
Cut your losses.
I mean, eventually, everyone sees the truth!
You know, if my mom would have cut out,
I could have understood that!

 

[Mustang Sally]

This is a lovely thread for father's day.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Awesome point!