CV make joke out of a serious issue!

[Guest]

Full comment is to be found here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1222354,00.html

The sexual sadism of our culture, in peace and in war

The Abu Ghraib images have all the hallmarks of contemporary porn

Katharine Viner
Saturday May 22, 2004
The Guardian

They make you sick to your stomach. And they look strangely familiar - like the XXX films in hotel rooms, like those "live rape!" emails sent to internet users, like porn.
Are you saying you do watch "live rape!" porn?

We also know this because all wars feature the abuse of women as a byproduct, or as a weapon. The ancient Greeks considered rape socially acceptable; the Crusaders raped their way to Constantinople; the English invaders raped Scottish women on Culloden Moor. The first world war, the second world war, Bosnia, Bangladesh, Vietnam - where the gangrape and murder of a peasant woman by US soldiers was photographed in stages by one if its participants.
Are you saying ancient Greeks watched porn?

But even if the pictures are mocked up, it makes you wonder where the images came from. Some woman, somewhere, had to be raped, or make it look like she was being raped. The poses, the large numbers of men to one woman, the violence - they have all the hallmarks of contemporary porn. Indeed, there is suspicion that the photos are part of a gruesome new trend - the manufacture of films showing the rape of women dressed as Iraqis by men dressed as US servicemen.
Is it a growing economic market?

Modern porn has become increasingly savage. "You're seeing more of these videos of women getting dragged on their faces, and spit on, and having their heads dunked in the toilet," says even pro-porn campaigner Nina Hartley.
Does US militery make it composary for men and women to watch porn?

Lara Roxx is 18, and arrived in California's San Fernando Valley, the capital of the US porn industry, only days before she contracted HIV. She had moved down from Canada with the aim of making quick money.
It's called capitalism

But there is no discussion of how "healthy" and "safe" it is to brutalise teenagers in the name of entertainment.
Let's ban porn.

It is hard not to see links between the culturally unacceptable behaviour of the soldiers in Abu Ghraib and the culturally accepted actions of what happens in porn. / The pornographic culture has clearly influenced the soldiers; at the very least, in their exhibitionism, their enthusiasm to photograph their handiwork. / Both point to just how degraded sex has become in western culture.
Ban porn.

Just give them the right conditions - and someone weaker to kick. It's proof that sexual aggression is not really about sex or gender, but about power: the powerful humiliating the powerless.
Could it be called "war"?

People are already joking that England (though not Graner) can have a nice little future career for herself in porn.
You gotta be kidding! Ewww.

 

[SummerMorning]

Sad, isn't it, how porn isn't even particularly arousing?

I've always been more partial to a beautiful woman teasing me and making me have pretty pictures in my head. Seeing a camera stuffed in some girl's rectum is just... how shall I say it? Not gratifying.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I think we might finally be seeing some separation developing between the idea of being sexualy explicit and the idea of being obscene, and I think that's good.

---dr.M.

 

[shereads]

This calls for a new, fully funded War on Porn.

 

[MathGirl]

Iof being obscene, and I think that's good.

Dear Dr M,
I've finally found something on which we agree. I, also, think obscenity is good.
Flatteringly,
MG
Ps. I just noticed that a section of the libray's periodicals is labeled "Currant Affairs." Isn't that having extramarital sex with some sort of small berry?

 

[Guest]

Sad, isn't it, how porn isn't even particularly arousing?
The 80's sucked, but porn was good then.

I've always been more partial to a beautiful woman teasing me and making me have pretty pictures in my head.
Wanker.

Seeing a camera stuffed in some girl's rectum is just... how shall I say it? Not gratifying.
Road kill.

 

[Guest]

I think we might finally be seeing some separation developing between the idea of being sexualy explicit and the idea of being obscene, and I think that's good.

---dr.M.

I don't see the difference. It's all relative and subjective.

 

[Guest]

This calls for a new, fully funded War on Porn.

God. More tax.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

...Seeing a camera stuffed in some girl's rectum is just... how shall I say it? Not gratifying.

But, it might be educational for a proctologist.

Which reminds me, isn’t it amazing how many amateur gynaecologists one encounters these days?

 

[Guest]

But I did not laugh or grin. You lack wit most of the time, CV, which is not uncommon here, and not a crime or even a fault, except when in bad taste.

Mab. makes a good point about porn and obscenity. There is a difference. Porn is necessarily obscene, obscenity is not always pornographic. I think our present political administration is obscene. Politics is too oft' obscene. George Bush's smirk is obscene. Rumsfeld's arrogance is obscene. "The photos" may appear pornographic, but I'd label them obscene, even those without any sexual connotation. The girl's smile in one is obscene. The man on a leash is obscene, not pornographic.

Anyway, CV, thinking on the time you took to splice up the article and bold your non-humourous comments makes me think of obscenity. Just saying.

Perdita

 

[Guest]

But I did not laugh or grin. You lack wit most of the time, CV, which is not uncommon here, and not a crime or even a fault, except when in bad taste.
Allright. So, you agree with me.

Mab. makes a good point about porn and obscenity. There is a difference. Porn is necessarily obscene, obscenity is not always pornographic.
The difference is up to the individual as I stated earlier.

I think our present political administration is obscene. Politics is too oft' obscene. George Bush's smirk is obscene. Rumsfeld's arrogance is obscene. "The photos" may appear pornographic, but I'd label them obscene, even those without any sexual connotation. The girl's smile in one is obscene. The man on a leash is obscene, not pornographic.
You agree. And I agree the photo's are not porngraphic at all. It's obscene. The Original commenter, Katherin Viner thinnks it's porngraphic. That's all. It's all in your head.

Anyway CV, thinking on the time you took to splice up the article and bold your non-humourous comments makes me think of obscenity. Just saying.
Fuck off, then. Get off my thread.

 

[SeaCat]

This one made me think

When I first came across this thread I immediatly went to the article and read it quickly soI would be able to reply. returning to the thread I read Chilled Vodkas comments, and thos eof others here and returned to the article for another read. This time I concentrated on what she was saying. After thinking about it I was, dare I say it? Chilled.
Not at C.V.'s rather sarcastic comments, but at what I feel she is truly trying to say.
She says she received these photos via E-Mail and doesn't know if they are true or dupes. But it doesn't seem to matter to her wether they are or not. What does seem to matter to her is the chance to revile porn, and American Troops.
She makes the comment about there having been 112 reported rapes or sexual assault on Female Soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. Okay, I can see there having been some, and maybe that many. However, over what time frame are we talking about? What is the total number of troops over there. If these assaults have been reported and investigated, what were the outcomes of the investigations? How does this compare with the number of sexual assaults in a likewise nyumbered population? She doesn't mention this does she?
She comments that she has read the reports of both an Iraqi investigation, and an American investigation into the abuses over there. I would like to see these reports so I can read them and not take her word on them. (The only things I have heard about the investigation was about "widespread abuses" against captured Iragis soldiers. Not civilians and not women.)
She was correct about the raping and pillaging that went on in other wars, but forgot to mention the attrocites commited by other Armies.
her comments about the violence in the Porn Induistry has me curious. Is there an upswing in it? I can't personaly comment on it because most of the porn I look at is pictures, and the odd movie my wife rents. The people I know are rather disgusted by rape, and don't find it a turn on at all. (Yes I do know there are people out there who get turned on by it, but I personaly don't know any of them.) The young lady she quotes as being pro-porn is actualy an ex porn star who is now actively against it. (Sorry I can't remember her name.)
Chilled, your comments made me stop and take another look. I give you four stars for this. (Plus a pair of brass ones for having the balls to comment on the article.) The rest of you who have read and commented, you do honor to Chilled for stopping to read, and to think. Whether you agree with his methods, it did work didn't it?

Cat

 

[Guest]

Re: This one made me think

When I first came across this thread I immediatly went to the article and read it quickly soI would be able to reply.
Thank God, some people can still read!

returned to the article for another read.
Allright, she wasn't that good being hysterical.

She says she received these photos via E-Mail and doesn't know if they are true or dupes. But it doesn't seem to matter to her wether they are or not. What does seem to matter to her is the chance to revile porn, and American Troops.
So, we agree, although I do think one rather shouldn't send a bunch of untrained rednecks to a war zone.

She makes the comment about there having been 112 reported rapes or sexual assault on Female Soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq.
As I understand it, 112 complains were made.

what were the outcomes of the investigations?
Whitewash, probably. Quick! cover everything up.

How does this compare with the number of sexual assaults in a likewise numbered population? She doesn't mention this does she?
One in four women experience sexual assult in one form or another in her life time in Scotland. The figure is one in five in Ireland. I don't know the statistics in US, but world-wide, one in three women go through sexual assult by men in their life time. It's such a beautiful world!

I would like to see these reports so I can read them and not take her word on them.
Go look for them.

(The only things I have heard about the investigation was about "widespread abuses" against captured Iragis soldiers. Not civilians and not women.)
Do you believe it?

She was correct about the raping and pillaging that went on in other wars, but forgot to mention the attrocites commited by other Armies.
So, it's OK?

(Sorry I can't remember her name.)
You read the article more than twice and don't remember the name?

Cat
Grrr! Woof! Woof!

 

[SeaCat]

Chilled, in reply to your post.

Yep, I can read, and some say I can even write upon occasion.

No, she wasn't that good at being hysterical, although she was good at getting her view across in the most inflamatory way possible.

Yes we agree on her reviling porn and/or American Troops. (I notice she didn't mention the British Troops involved in much the same scandel.) As for sending "Untrained Rednecks" to the war zone, I have to take you to task on this one for several reasons.
A) The unit in question in this case was a Military Police Unit. Prior to and during the Vietnam War some of these troops were untrained, and in some cases untrainable. Now however that has been reversed. Rather than useless soldiers who couldn't score high enough to get into other specialties these are highly motivated and highly trained Law Enforcment Officers. (At least in the U.S. Army. I can't comment on foriegn services, ie. English, German, French etc.) Many of these people are either Reservists who are iotherwise employed by Local Police Departments when they are not on active duty. Those who are Active Duty or Regular Army often leave the Army and go straight into Local Police Departments. (I can think of several City departments with excellent reputations who will hire direct out of the military.) Remember, it was only a few men and women out of this unit who have been fingered.
B) While some of these people may come from rural Southern backgrounds, you can't call them Rednecks in the common usage f the term. In the United States Army you must have the equivalent of a High School Diploma to even be considered for enlistment.

Are the attrocities commited by any army during it's conquest OKay? No it isn't. Unfortunately for her argument I don't hear her commenting on anything having been done by the British Army. (Or any of the other troops there.) Nor does she comment on the casual raping and other abuses which the Iraqi Army is well known for. Instead she points to the American Military with shock and disgust as though we are the only ones who would do such a thing.

Do I believe the reports about abuses being only against Iraqi Soldiers? No, but I do not think they are anywhere as widespread as this person would have others believe.

Cat