custody battles

[Guest]

If it ever gets abusive enough, and if you find somebody who can truly love you for being YOU... it could change.

what are u doing here??? should u be having sex??

 

[angelicminx]

The ex fabricated LOTS of horrible and creative stuff in order not to have to pay child support, and now Mr. and Mrs. Pothead are raising my 16 and 13 year old, and using all that extra cash for Mary Jane, apparently... I haven't seen my oldest in 3 years, up until this week, when she contacted me. Long story. No happy ending.

yet.

No happy ending here either. Delayed, AGAIN, to Jan. 22... sigh.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

what are u doing here??? should u be having sex??

Have to come up for air SOMEtime!

 

[Guest]

Have to come up for air SOMEtime!

dayum!!

 

[wickedlady31]

a winner

My husband won custody of his child.....the mother beat the crap out of her when she was two, blamed it on a boyfriend...lost custody and pays out the ass in child support


justice...was served!

 

[Selena_Kitt]

No happy ending here either. Delayed, AGAIN, to Jan. 22... sigh.

That's my birthday. Maybe it will bring you some measure of good luck.

My daughter contacted me for the first time in three years. Maybe 2007 will be a better year? *crossing fingers*

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

My daughter contacted me for the first time in three years. Maybe 2007 will be a better year? *crossing fingers*

I wish you the best.

 

[Weird Harold]

tell me your story please. and make it a happy ending? pretty please?

I don't know how "happy" the ending was, but I had the "whip hand" in my divorce and mae sure that the children were NOT used as weapons in the battle -- at least not openly.

In exchange for an uncontested divorce -- without alimony -- she got child support and custody of both kids except for the option of thirty days each year spent with me and and I got unlimited visitation with 24 hours notice.

If she didn't agree to my terms, I had enough evidence to cut her completely out of any custody consideration -- she chose my terms over losing all contact with the kids beause she knew I could make it stick.

When I retired, we mutually agreed to a custody change and the girls came to live with me within walking distance of their mother's place so vistation wasn't an issue.

It's been twenty-two years and both daughters are married and out on their own. The elder daughter has basically done on her own what I threatened to do -- cut the ex completely out of her life and any contact with the granddaughters.

It took a serious commitment on both our parts to keep our differences from spilling over onto the children. We didn't succeed completely but we did manage to be civil to each other and keep the kids well-being in mind.

Both kids were old enough when we divorced to have some input into the custody arrangements and we gave them the final word on the custody change when I retired.

 

[bearlee]

they're a total pain in the arse. not to mention costs a shitload of money.

why does it have to be such a painful process?? and why does it take so fucking long??

tell me your story please. and make it a happy ending? pretty please?

Well, I do a ton of 'em and they are painful for the people involved and their families and the kids for that matter. How long they can take can sometimes depend not on the state, but a local court and how it works. And yeah, unfortunately they can be very costly. I've tried a ton of custody trials but one thing I always tell people to try to get them not to do it by talking to their spouse is, " Listen, this is going to be over sooner or later and you and your wife/husband are no longer going to have attorneys and the court involved. When we're done, I'm done and the same is true with the other attorney and the two of you are going to have to get along for the kids. Nobody is asking you to like your husband/wife, the court doesn't really care about that, but it does care about the kids. So each of you can spend a ton of money on attorneys or, you can come to an agreement of some kind and use the money for the kids."

Words to that effect-writing it and saying don't seem to come across the same way.

Happy ending-I don't know. Most end by agreement but if you go to trial, probably for one side and not the other. Sometimes it's painful because of the attorneys but generally it's painful because of the parties involved and the things that get said and the things people sometimes do to each other. If it goes that far, unfortunately there isn't a high road most of the time.

Strangely enough, I'm in my office and just finished preperation for one tomorrow. My guess is it will be continued, but for a strange procedual reason.

Best to you on it though.

 

[rgraham666]

Thanks bearlee.

As I was just pointing out to someone in a PM, the problem isn't the system, it's people.

 

[bearlee]

Thanks bearlee.

As I was just pointing out to someone in a PM, the problem isn't the system, it's people.

Generally true but we have a glut of attorneys and some of them keep the fight going for two reasons and one of them isn't money. I can make more money in my office meeting new, potential clients than spending 1-3 days in court. The real problem is some attorneys take everything so personally you'd think you were trying to take their kids(Years ago I was like that). The other problem with too many attorneys is in order to get more clients they have to win at all costs so their name gets out and about. Pretty sad.

But yeah, it's the people the majority of the time. It's an emotional issue in a divorce case and the most difficult one for an attorney to deal with. You can give advice and even explain why your client won't get custody,which goes over real well but I think we have a duty to do it, but everyone is entitled to pursue their legal rights in court and when you add the emotion in, it's difficult.

It's not just custody either. I was in court today with a woman for a settlement conference. Trial is on the 25th. The purpose is to try to settle the case at the conference. I asked her what she wanted and her response was simple enough, "Everything-I want to take him to the cleaners." Later, after meeting with the judge and other attorney, I tried to explain to her the reality of that position. She understands, but because he left her for another woman, she wants to destroy him. It's the emotional part I get to deal with the court could care less about. Sorry to get off subject here.

 

[rgraham666]

Not off subject. It shows very clearly why things gets so twisted.

And I regard the plethora of lawyers as part of the people problem.

 

[bearlee]

Not off subject. It shows very clearly why things gets so twisted.

And I regard the plethora of lawyers as part of the people problem.

~laughing~ You probably hit that one on the head

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Roxanne Appleby]Unless both parties are reasonable and are able to negotiate a mutually acceptable arrangement on their own, there are no happy endings. By definition, that is not the case in a "child custody dispute." The courts have been given by default a task that no bureaucracy is capable of accomplishing no matter how it is organized, what its rules are, or how richly it is endowed with funding and personnel. Since every case is unique, and the athorities cannot know where the truth lies, the result it a set of "one size fits none" protocols that guarantee no happy endings.

It is frankly a total fucking disaster for our society. Realistically, the only solution is to attack it at the root by returning to older social institutions or adopting new ones that make people take the committment to sire or conceive babies much more seriously than they do in the present era, when moral relativism reigns, and immaturity and lack of seriousness are considered "cool." (Example: MTV "Real World; 90 percent of all the other "reality" shows on TV; basically most popular culture.)

I don't mean to condemn anyone here. I think we are all victims of some very bad ideas that have rotted our society. There has got to be a better way.[/QUOTE]


I wanted to thank you for your post Roxanne and give you my appreciation as it seems no one has.

It took 10 years and well over $100,000, but I finally got custody of my five children. But it doesn't end there, of course. Each one of the children yearn for a 'mother' they never had.

And on All Poetry, and a few other sites with young writers, I read, everyday, of young boys and girls who never even knew their father.

It is a "total fucking disaster", and the social institutions have failed us and 'moral relativism' offers only a worsening situation, along with same sex couples adopting children, a thought that make me want to vomit.

I thought for a while, as a consolation, I think, that the trauma my children went through with multiple step-fathers and boyfriends, would strengthen then, it did not. I cannot begin to imagine the overall national social impact of a full generation of children without a stable family foundation.

I always try to be optimistic about such things but in this issue I see no light at the end of the tunnel.

I imagine I will unsubscribe to this thread as I do not wish to participate and I doubt anything useful will be posted. But again, thank you and best wishes for the new year.


amicus...

 

[S-Des]

Mine is an example of the contrasts that can happen. My ex and I are completely disfunctional. We don't talk at all. She imagines that she has sole custody (rather than joint), so constantly makes decisions that she is supposed to discuss with me. This year alone she changed the school my daughter was supposed to attend to a bullshit "new age" one (despite having excellent schools within a mile of her house) and signed her up for an extra-curricular activity that I don't approve of (not to mention it's $300/month, which seems excessive for a 6 year old child). She takes every opportunity to screw me over with little things (either because they're not completely spelled out in the agreement, or she just ignores the agreement and dares me to take her back to court).

At the other end of the spectrum, we both love our daughter very much. She is always first with both of us and has turned out to be an amazing child. The court system (especially the mediator) managed to give us a baseline to work from. Because we can't get along on any level, there is only so much they could have done, but at least I don't have to worry about her interfering with my visitation and she doesn't have to worry about me not paying.

No, there's no happy ending, but if you try hard enough, you can get your child through the mess with little or no lasting damage. It sucks for the adults, but since we made the mess, I guess that's just Karma.

 

[angelicminx]

I don't know how "happy" the ending was, but I had the "whip hand" in my divorce and mae sure that the children were NOT used as weapons in the battle -- at least not openly.

In exchange for an uncontested divorce -- without alimony -- she got child support and custody of both kids except for the option of thirty days each year spent with me and and I got unlimited visitation with 24 hours notice.

If she didn't agree to my terms, I had enough evidence to cut her completely out of any custody consideration -- she chose my terms over losing all contact with the kids beause she knew I could make it stick.

When I retired, we mutually agreed to a custody change and the girls came to live with me within walking distance of their mother's place so vistation wasn't an issue.

It's been twenty-two years and both daughters are married and out on their own. The elder daughter has basically done on her own what I threatened to do -- cut the ex completely out of her life and any contact with the granddaughters.

It took a serious commitment on both our parts to keep our differences from spilling over onto the children. We didn't succeed completely but we did manage to be civil to each other and keep the kids well-being in mind.

Both kids were old enough when we divorced to have some input into the custody arrangements and we gave them the final word on the custody change when I retired.

That's the way mine was supposed to work. (With a visitation schedule that was a little more complicated.) Instead, when we discovered that the state wouldn't allow the divorce without child support, he had a hand in lodging complaints with CPS. That was in June. We go to court the 22nd to find out if my daughter can come home. (I see her every weekend. She stays with my parents and they 'supervise' me.) Had I known this would happen, I'd have signed an agreement to return the $300 a month to him. Sigh.

 

[angelicminx]

That's my birthday. Maybe it will bring you some measure of good luck.

My daughter contacted me for the first time in three years. Maybe 2007 will be a better year? *crossing fingers*

Praying. Happy Birthday to you... Wonderful gift for me.

I hope like hell that 2007 IS a better year. Praying that things with your daughter work out.

 

[SensualCealy]

I can only tell you what happened with my brother.

He was an idiot and decided when my then sister in law was 7 months pregnant to have an affair. Why, because she was sick all the time and spent allot of her time at her moms with their oldest child.

She found the panties in the visor of the car and confronted him a week after their second was born...she filed for divorce after all was said and done.

We tried to talk to both of them, I sided with my ex sister in law, why you ask? Because my brother wasnt man enough to talk it over with his then wife and seek councilling or what ever it took to make it work!

They had a good life, he fucked up and now that he is remarried he is working as a long haul driver so he doesnt have to spend as much time with the wife he now has! (not the one he had the affair with!)

Oldest is almost 18 and the youngest is 16, this past Christmas they went at it again, not through the courts but with each other. She asked to have the kids at Christmas, he said NO! The custody order states that he shall have the kids two days prior to Christmas and at 11am on Christmas morning they are to be taken to her home. His thoughts were, you asked for that years ago, you are sticking with it now. My question to him would be, 'Arent your children old enough to say, hey dad, I want to stay at moms this year, or what ever?"

When there isnt abuse or serious issues concerning safety, I think the major issue is parents that act like kids themselves. If they would only grow up and see the lives of their children crumbling infront of them as they fight over the good of the children, the kids would be better off.

Im sure if they had taken care of the situation before he had the affair, they would still be together today. My ex sister in law and I are still good friends, and it pisses my brother off to no end. My come back to him is, she never did anything wrong to me! If I wanted the kids at any time for my childrens birthdays, she brought them so long as I took them home- some times it pays to be nice!

As a second thought, I truly dont think its fair that a woman who stays home as a mutual decision with both parents, has no rights to keep their children if they do not have an income to support them. WTF has she been doing all those years but raising HIS KIDS! He should have to pay her a wage to continuing to do so!

My 2cents,
C

 

[SensualCealy]

It is a "total fucking disaster", and the social institutions have failed us and 'moral relativism' offers only a worsening situation, along with same sex couples adopting children, a thought that make me want to vomit.

amicus...[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that a child with same sex parents yearn for their biological parents, just because they have two parents of the same sex?

I would think any child that knows they are adopted or separated from their biological parent by divorce yearns the same way. NO MATTER WHAT THE SEX OF THEIR PARENTS!
My husband is adopted, by a man and woman, does he yearn for his biological family, NO. He feels he was completely loved by the couple who adopted him and doesnt feel the need to seek out his biological family. He also feels love by his origional family, because they gave him up instead of keeping him and struggling to make things work for the last 42 years!

Stating that same sex couples shouldnt adopt is in my opinion a biggotted remark!
Why is having two parents of the same sex better, if infact one beats the crap out of you? Hmm?

C

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I asked a religious conservative who has a neice he loves dearly to choose: Her be adopted by that het couple he saw in the wal-mart check out lane, where she was calling the kids "stoo-pid" and he was showing them out to shoplift gum, or a pair of gentle and genteel gay guys. To his credit he paused, and yeilded, changing his position to, "other things being equal, a het couple should get the kid." I admired him.

 

[oggbashan]

Brighter news

My brother and sister-in-law have four children and a growing number of grandchildren. They live in a village that has a lively community and they are and were major players in the village life.

One evening a couple, also active in the village, were returning from a theatre in a nearby town when their car was wrecked by a drunk truck driver. They died instantly, leaving an 18 year old son and a 16 year old daughter.

Twelve families in the village, all friends of the deceased parents, offered to adopt the orphans (although technically the son was too old to be adopted). Social Services wanted them to be adopted by the only surviving (and distant) relative. The relative visited the village, without telling Social Services, and asked the orphans what they wanted. They said that they wanted to stay in the village, in the family home, and be adopted by locals.

The twelve families met and agreed to support whoever the orphans wanted to be adopted by. The orphans chose my brother and his wife. The twelve families approached Social Services, told them what the children wanted and suggested that it be made official. Social Services suggested that my brother and sister were too old to be adoptive parents, despite the fact that their youngest were the same age as the girl. They then faced the wrath, and lawyers, of all twelve families, the children's lawyers, the Parish Council, the three Churches in the village and even the pub football team.

My brother and his wife adopted the girl and 'adopted' the boy. The other eleven families were 'adopted' as godparents.

Later, one of my nephews had a daughter with a woman he wanted to marry. The pregnancy was a mistake because the mother had forgotten to take her contraceptive pills regularly. Why? Because she had a drug habit she had concealed from my nephew. During her pregnancy he found out about the drugs but still offered to marry her. She refused. She did name him as the father of the child and he helped to bring up his daughter on a time share basis, often taking over at short notice when the mother was out of her head on drugs.

Several times he tried to get custody, allowing access to the mother when she was able to care for the child. However the mother's drug habit worsened. Eventually Social Services and the court gave him sole custody. That daughter is now 14 with two younger step-siblings. She still sees her mother from time to time. The mother is now clean and in a new supportive partnership but her daughter is a reminder of the worst time of her life. Her daughter has always known she has a mother but it is no surprise that she prefers to be with her father.

Og

 

[lucky-E-leven]

And on All Poetry, and a few other sites with young writers, I read, everyday, of young boys and girls who never even knew their father.

It is a "total fucking disaster", and the social institutions have failed us and 'moral relativism' offers only a worsening situation, along with same sex couples adopting children, a thought that make me want to vomit.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, it's tragic that so many young men and women in society today have never known their fathers. Yet, it's sickening to think of other children being raised by two loving parents of the same gender rather than letting them live the high life of a foster child?

I imagine I will unsubscribe to this thread as I do not wish to participate and I doubt anything useful will be posted. But again, thank you and best wishes for the new year.


amicus...

Run, Forrest! Run!

 

[cloudy]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, it's tragic that so many young men and women in society today have never known their fathers. Yet, it's sickening to think of other children being raised by two loving parents of the same gender rather than letting them live the high life of a foster child?

Run, Forrest! Run!

I you, Lucky.

As a second thought, I truly dont think its fair that a woman who stays home as a mutual decision with both parents, has no rights to keep their children if they do not have an income to support them. WTF has she been doing all those years but raising HIS KIDS! He should have to pay her a wage to continuing to do so!

That's the situation I'm in now.

I stayed home with my last child, so now I have absolutely no income (it's all his he says ), and can't afford to pay a lawyer, while he goes out and hires the best-known lawyer in town, the one that every person going through a divorce dreads to hear that their soon-to-be-ex is using.

He's dirty, he's cutthroat, and he's also expensive. I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting custody right now.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

As a second thought, I truly dont think its fair that a woman who stays home as a mutual decision with both parents, has no rights to keep their children if they do not have an income to support them. WTF has she been doing all those years but raising HIS KIDS! He should have to pay her a wage to continuing to do so!

My 2cents,
C

By staying at home and providing child care a woman enables the man to develop his "human capital" and increase his earning power in the workplace. She forgoes the opportunity to do the same. Therefore, going forward she should have a claim on the greater income she has allowed him to earn.

 

[rachlou]

I suppose I am lucky in that when my ex and I divorced, he blamed me for entirely for our split and fucked off abroad, completely abandoning his three children (then 4, 7 and 9). He took the mature decision that it was far better to hurt me financially by witholding child support, than see his kids on a regular basis. He gave up a good job with regular hours, that would have enabled him to see his kids any time he liked. He took a job in Afghanistan (very peaceful part of the world) that paid shit loads (danger money) and now is lucky if he sees his kids once a year. He is now re-married to a chinese woman and they are expecting a baby next month. My only wish is that he cares enough about his new baby to actually see it grow up.
I still talk to him civilly and allowed our kids to go and stay with him in China for 2 weeks last summer. They will be visiting this summer again. I am nice to his mother and have never said nasty things about him to the kids. Despite the fact he gives me no money whatsoever and I am struggling like hell to bring up three kids on my income. I could hate him, but at the end of the day, I am the one who gets to see our kids grow into adults and I am the one they tell things to and kiss good-night. I see it as his loss and I hope one day he realises that by hurting me, he has hurt himself far more.