criticism wanted

[robertreams]

I would like some other writer's opinions on my story. it is not a new one, but I have never asked for opinions before. This is a gay story so, if you hate gay, stay away. please critique only the writing. No politics or bashing.

Here is the link to the story: http://www.literotica.com/s/making-me

 

[sr71plt]

I read this one yesterday. I think it's quite good. Well-written, the emotions are good, it's hot--if you like M/M.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm curious why Laurel let it go with the allusion of juvenile sex in Scouts. Hang for a Penny, hang for a Pound.

And your punctuation sux.

 

[robertreams]

your punctuation sux,is not creative criticism show me where iti s wrong.
An allusion by an individual to something in his own past is why it was allowed. it would be like a character saying she had been abused or raped as a child. You could say that, but not describe the act. I believe that's why it was allowed.

 

[sr71plt]

Your punctuation didn’t bother me on a read (and JBJ is hardly someone to talk about the punctuation of others). The nonstandard sentence fragments are commercial, if not what is taught in high school English. I tend toward this style of writing myself. Since you asked, though, there are some issues to point out (enough to make me wonder why you are advertising to be an editor here—you seem more like a second reader in ability).

“. . . sits quietly on the couch listening intently . . .” There should be a comma after “couch” to set the gerund clause off. You provide it in other instances.

“. . . looks straight in my face, then leans forward and kisses . . .” This is a typical mistake, throwing in a “then” clause with just a comma. It’s a half-way to something treatment that will only be right when you take it all the way toward something grammatical. Either “. . . in my face. He then . . .” or “. . . in my face, and then he . . .” or even “in my face; then he . . .”

“. . . "Get in", he says, "relax." The hot water on my neck and shoulders relieves the tension a bit. "I shouldn't go through with this," I keep . . .” The dialogue comma should be inside the quotes on the “Get in” use. That’s this Web site’s style and stories have been rejected for this misuse. That you put it inside the quotes in the second example here shows that you are just inconsistent.

“. . . the backs of my thighs. he grabs the soap . . .” “he” should be capitalized.

OK, that’s in the first six paragraphs of the story. Punctuation going wrong, but, by Literotica standards, it certainly doesn’t suck. As a reader, I read through it quite easily, without distraction. Every time I reread my stories I find similar issues--and they've been through two editors (real editors).

 

[horrorotica]

I agree the punctuation and grammar is bit messy, but not the worst I have seen on this site by a long shot. Overall it was a nice sex scene with everything I'd expect but I felt the lead in was very underdeveloped as an idea. You could have spent more time (and paragraphs) exploring the loss your protagonist felt about his friend. The taboo nature of gay feelings and relationships in the military and how hard it is to speak freely about a love you fear your new friend would not understand. That would have given your sex scene more urgency and power rather than turning into a by-the-numbers sexual act, which I'm sorry to say it did.

But keep at it as you do show some ability.

 

[robertreams]

Thanks for your comments. I don't agree with the "then" comment because I think the "He" is understood. Actually the sentence works good with only a comma there and no then. That's probably how I should have done it. On the sentence fragments you are correct. They are intentional to speed the action.

Thanks for the other comments . This was one of my first stories on this site and I hope I am doing better now. Actually 56,000 people have read the story. which I find amazing. And quite a few have had positive comments and favored it.

Right again. The lost friend is covered in much more detail. This is actually a scene extracted from my novel, changed a bit to make a short story.

As far as that goes, when writing for this site under erotica, I go for the hard on. I am amazed daily at the quality of writing demanded by this site, until I click to read a story that sounds good but turns out to be very immature writing Most I have read is full of run-ons with "and" and "Just"s and two "that"s in every line and immature slang, etc.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks for your comments. I don't agree with the "then" comment because I think the "He" is understood. Actually the sentence works good with only a comma there and no then. That's probably how I should have done it. On the sentence fragments you are correct. They are intentional to speed the action.

But then you've pretty much established that you aren't a trained editor, so, unless you have some recognized authorities to cite on this point, your disagreement doesn't impress me much.

It's OK with me if you believe something different on the stories you are posting here. You asked for critique examples, and you got some based on publishing standards.

 

[Perfideous]

A couple of points

I would like some other writer's opinions on my story. it is not a new one, but I have never asked for opinions before. This is a gay story so, if you hate gay, stay away. please critique only the writing. No politics or bashing.

Here is the link to the story: http://www.literotica.com/s/making-me

First off Grammar. I am leaving grammar critiques strictly for the others.

The thing is; it isn't plausible. Consider the first few paragraphs

Les, my closest friend now that Mike has been killed in Iraq, sits quietly on the couch listening intently as I tell him about my explorations with Mike in that scout tent so many years before. How our relationship had grown beyond experimentation. How our experiences had left me shaken, doubtful about my sexuality, but oh so excited. About how I believed that I had "loved" Mike in a way that was very close to the love I had felt for women.

There is a long pause as I stand over him, hoping his reaction will not be too harsh, that he will not think ill of me, will not cease to be my friend because of my "queer' feelings for Mike.

Les rises. Stands still for a moment and looks straight in my face, then leans forward and kisses my lips lightly. I stand in shock, not knowing what to feel, my face tingling where his coarse beard has touched.

So the relationship with Mike had grown beyond experimentation.
Our experiences had left me shaken, doubtful about my sexuality
Les rises. Stands still for a moment and looks straight in my face, then leans forward and kisses my lips lightly.
I stand in shock, not knowing what to feel

We are serious,aren't we?

Are we trying to pretend after the come on about the things 'me an' Mike' got up to that our Protagonist is a straight guy agonizing about his sexuality?

The agony with the anal sense is a incorrect perception held by those who have no knowledge on the subject.

I do.

Gay men do not hurt each other when making love, or bonking, having it off, whatever. If it hurts the top will stop. Bottoms control gay sex not the tops.

Finally Len was the Protagonist's 'best friend' but I was looking to see some display of affection between them or some thoughts about Len that made him any different to a dildo with legs but I didn't.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

First, I think you are lucky to have got away with the scout reference. The site bans any description of under-18 sexual activity, or reference to it, and I think you crossed the line.

Perfideous took words from my mouth. I have many straight, lesbian and gay friends and the statement "men/women do not hurt each other when making love" is pretty universal.

I don't often say this but sr is completely right, and you wrong, about your hash of 'then'. If you wrote simply, "and leans forward. . ." you keep the continuity.

 

[robertreams]

One of the other "editors" rewrote the sentence exactly the way I wrote it. The "then" in the sentence establishes the second clause as a dependent clause, therefore, a comma is correct. If there were no "then", a preposition in this case, then a period, "and" or semicolon would be required. "And then" is redundant.

I was an associate editor of a major U.S. magazine and a high school English teacher for many years.

Finally: I have been fucked in the ass more than once and now do not allow it because it hurts like hell.

So all you experts, perhaps you don't know what my personal sexual experience was like. Also i received several personal comments on the story saying it reminded them of their first time, so someone is fucking someone and causing some pain. Some are being painfully fucked and enjoying it! Some are being painfully fucked the first time and adjusting to it. Some are being painfully fucked and SLOWLY adjusting to it.

 

[robertreams]

According to the Purdue OWL, under "transitions" one of the words to use to show the passage of time is "then", not "and then", but simply "then". So i suppose it then becomes a question of whether I, as writer, intended a transition or a passage of time. Look it up all you"professionals". Now that I have cited a source, what say Ye?

 

[Sonatatre]

Why ask for criticism if all you do is argue with anyone that has something to say about your story? Did you expect everyone to praise you as some genius?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Why ask for criticism if all you do is argue with anyone that has something to say about your story? Did you expect everyone to praise you as some genius?

Uh, yes!

No one wants conformation that their shit stinks.

 

[lovecraft68]

M/M is not my thing, but I gave it a skim.

I always leave grammar alone because I have issues with it myself so feel its wrong to critique others unless it is really glaring.

I thought it was a good read considering it is not my subject matter so to me, that means in the eyes of the target audience I am sure it is quite good.

But a couple of quick takes. The scout reference was not blatant. but I have seen things rejected for the same. You did get lucky. That does not mean the reference was out of line(its called realism) but the site is beyond paranoid on this.

Also 56k views does not mean "reads" we have no idea on how many people who click on the story even read past the first line. Not trying to deflate you, just pointing out a "lit fact"

 

[robertreams]

I argued only with part of the criticism. I did not argue with much of it, as some of it is right on. But it is my understanding that editors and writers work together with a good deal of back and forth. As I said, it was an early attempt on this site, before I realized it was more than just a fuck story site, so my newer stories have improved somewhat, especially on the use of quotation marks.

I suspect, though, as one critic has pointed out, that corrections and improvements can be made in almost any manuscript, no matter how many edits.

Also i objected somewhat to the tone of some of the comments. I expect to be treated as a colleague, not belittled, though I understand the need for a feeling of self-importance.

And no matter what anyone says anal sex hurts like hell! At least for me. So I also have personal experience and am not pretending anything. How could I not argue with someone who professes to know my own ass better than I.

Thanks very much to all of you who have given me excellent advice. And screw all of you who saw it as an opportunity to pump up your own egos

 

[lovecraft68]

First off Grammar. I am leaving grammar critiques strictly for the others.

The thing is; it isn't plausible. Consider the first few paragraphs

Les, my closest friend now that Mike has been killed in Iraq, sits quietly on the couch listening intently as I tell him about my explorations with Mike in that scout tent so many years before. How our relationship had grown beyond experimentation. How our experiences had left me shaken, doubtful about my sexuality, but oh so excited. About how I believed that I had "loved" Mike in a way that was very close to the love I had felt for women.

There is a long pause as I stand over him, hoping his reaction will not be too harsh, that he will not think ill of me, will not cease to be my friend because of my "queer' feelings for Mike.

Les rises. Stands still for a moment and looks straight in my face, then leans forward and kisses my lips lightly. I stand in shock, not knowing what to feel, my face tingling where his coarse beard has touched.

So the relationship with Mike had grown beyond experimentation.
Our experiences had left me shaken, doubtful about my sexuality
Les rises. Stands still for a moment and looks straight in my face, then leans forward and kisses my lips lightly.
I stand in shock, not knowing what to feel

We are serious,aren't we?

Are we trying to pretend after the come on about the things 'me an' Mike' got up to that our Protagonist is a straight guy agonizing about his sexuality?

The agony with the anal sense is a incorrect perception held by those who have no knowledge on the subject.

I do.

Gay men do not hurt each other when making love, or bonking, having it off, whatever. If it hurts the top will stop. Bottoms control gay sex not the tops.

Finally Len was the Protagonist's 'best friend' but I was looking to see some display of affection between them or some thoughts about Len that made him any different to a dildo with legs but I didn't.

I have no experience with receiving anal sex, but have delivered it to several women.

It does hurt the first time and it will throughout the first experience. It will hurt for the first few until one gets used to it.

You do hurt someone the first time....

However, there is a difference in hurting them due to the act and trying to go slow and easy and tearing into them to truly inflict pain.

Gays don't hurt each other when they make love? Eventually no, if its the bottoms first time, hell yes, its just not intentional its just part of things.

Hell, first time vaginal sex can hurt for a woman the first time, but they continue and go through with it.

The pain was a realistic touch.

Gays don;t hurt gays when "making love" the first time? as my daughter constantly says about everything: Really?

As for your knowledge go ahead and lie to me and tell me the first time a lover gave it to you in your ass it didn't hurt, because a liar is what you will be.

 

[sr71plt]

It's going to hurt every time if you don't prepare properly. It's not like it was purpose built for that sort of activity.

But(t) we write fantasies here. Here the first time should be glorious.

I think the name of the thread "criticism wanted" was a misnomer. Didn't even particularly like the praise I gave in the first response thread.

 

[Perfideous]

I have no experience with receiving anal sex, but have delivered it to several women.

It does hurt the first time and it will throughout the first experience. It will hurt for the first few until one gets used to it.

You do hurt someone the first time....

However, there is a difference in hurting them due to the act and trying to go slow and easy and tearing into them to truly inflict pain.

Gays don't hurt each other when they make love? Eventually no, if its the bottoms first time, hell yes, its just not intentional its just part of things.

Hell, first time vaginal sex can hurt for a woman the first time, but they continue and go through with it.

The pain was a realistic touch.

Gays don;t hurt gays when "making love" the first time? as my daughter constantly says about everything: Really?

As for your knowledge go ahead and lie to me and tell me the first time a lover gave it to you in your ass it didn't hurt, because a liar is what you will be.

Well you're just completely wrong.

If its done slowly the bottom (or to be accurate the bottom's bottom) opens up and the cock just slides in. As I said in my first post it's only if the top is anxious to get in before he goes soft that there's an issue and given that they were fit young men in the peak of physical condition then that had to be unlikely.

All this pain stuff comes from movies set in San Quentin and such like where the hero ( wrongly imprisoned) is set upon and raped.

And no, it didn't. Had my attention that's for sure and there was a little discomfort at first but no 'oh my God" pain.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ah me, our resident faggots have colonized anuther board at LIT.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well you're just completely wrong.

If its done slowly the bottom (or to be accurate the bottom's bottom) opens up and the cock just slides in. As I said in my first post it's only if the top is anxious to get in before he goes soft that there's an issue and given that they were fit young men in the peak of physical condition then that had to be unlikely.

All this pain stuff comes from movies set in San Quentin and such like where the hero ( wrongly imprisoned) is set upon and raped.

And no, it didn't. Had my attention that's for sure and there was a little discomfort at first but no 'oh my God" pain.

And do you think I didn't go slow with the women for whom it was their first time? Think I just slammed in? I started witha finger, moved up to a very slim vibrator than a bigger one, then me.

maybe your boyfriends had small cocks.

End of the day all I'm saying is the degree of pain added realism. I've used it in my stories.

Now, we all (I think we do anyway) no what other little bit of ugliness can sometimes happen during anal sex in real life. Going to debate that too.

Anyway I'm done with it and not going to argue. I'll juts leave it with the remark that there is a certain pitch to a woman's squeal when she is getting it in the ass and it isn't exactly all pleasure(until they are used to it) so again maybe cock size should be discussed

 

[Perfideous]

And do you think I didn't go slow with the women for whom it was their first time? Think I just slammed in? I started witha finger, moved up to a very slim vibrator than a bigger one, then me.

maybe your boyfriends had small cocks.

End of the day all I'm saying is the degree of pain added realism. I've used it in my stories.

Now, we all (I think we do anyway) no what other little bit of ugliness can sometimes happen during anal sex in real life. Going to debate that too.

Anyway I'm done with it and not going to argue. I'll juts leave it with the remark that there is a certain pitch to a woman's squeal when she is getting it in the ass and it isn't exactly all pleasure(until they are used to it) so again maybe cock size should be discussed

or maybe you're just not very good at it.


And they weren't boyfriends, just strangers.(smiles sweetly)