Creeping Paranoia

[Gaucho]

Do we know what we're doing?

An editorial in my morning paper started out by reciting an old joke about what happens when two men meet an angry bear in the forest. If you haven't heard it, the joke goes like this:

Two guys are sitting outside their tent when they see a huge, angry bear charging toward them. One of them starts lacing up his running shoes. The other says, "Are you crazy? You'll never outrun that bear!" To which the first replies, "I don't have to outrun the bear. All I have to do is outrun you."

The editorialist, a Dartmouth Professor, goes on to talk about how often this concept applies in business. Small companies become large and large companies become conglomerates all in the name of feeding their competitors (and in some cases their partners) to the bear. But what is the bear? In the case of this editorial, the bear can be many things: Sawmills expanding in New England without knowing whether or when the wood demand of all the mills will exceed the capacity of the forest. Or it can be the corn farmers in the Midwest, already the envy of the world for their corn yields, doing anything and everything they can to grow more (or better) corn, without knowing the potential side-effects (in the case of gene-spliced seed) and all the while knowing that the more corn they grow the lower the price they will get. Or it could be the different fishing industries, where they've either virtually wiped out their resource (the fish) and can't or won't abide by regulation to let the resource replenish itself, or they put to sea in bigger boats with larger nets, hoping to beat the other guy to the dwindling supply and knowing that 30% of the time they are losing money by doing it.

In each of these cases, the bear is setting yourself or your company in motion towards a goal without really knowing or even thinking about what the eventual ramifications of your actions will be. As long as you outrun the other guy, it doesn't matter.

Now, before anybody gets the wrong idea, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal or a member of a radical sect of the Earth First! group. The older I get, the more I tend to be conservative (following the dictum of Winston Churchill, who said that to be a conservative at 20 was hard-hearted but to be a liberal at 40 was soft-headed) in that I believe in smaller government and the ability of people to make up their own minds. But for some time now in the back of my mind I've had this feeling that can best be described as creeping paranoia.

I believe in the idea of capitalism and a free marketplace but then I read about Ford and Firestone and I wonder. I watch movies like "Erin Brockovich" and "A Civil Action" and I think, no wonder people hate corporations! And then I think, are these just the ones that got caught? Right now, we are cloning animals, creating and distributing genetically enhanced seeds (called FrankenFoods in Europe) and even (just for kicks, I suppose) attempting to introduce new genes into the recently mapped genetic code.

In each of these cases (and countless others I'm sure you could add) I want to believe that someone, somewhere is thinking about the bear and wondering just where all of this is going to lead.

And each night, before I take my place sucking on the Glass Teat in my living room, I wonder: Do we know what we're doing?

Do we really know what the fuck we're doing?

 

[Expertise]

In the greater scheme of things or collectively, I don't think we have a fucking clue. There is certainly no drive toward a common goal or common good. The analogy I would make is of an amoeba on an inverted petrie dish. We are just going to keep growing (because its that or die) until too much of our mass slips over the edge and pulls the rest of us off with it.

For the time being though its a helluva ride.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

A friend of mine can see without glasses for the first time in his life because a doctor took five mintues to do a little optical slicing with a laser. Another man I know is alive today because a pig's valve sends blood into his heart. The Hubble telescope recently took pictures of proto-stars 12 billion light years away, which means we have photographs of what the Universe looked like 12 billion years ago, nearly to the time of creation. And it looks like they're going to renew "Will and Grace". Yeah, I think we know what we're doing.

All the time? HELL no. I believe all sorts of terrible things about the potential of companies and governments and individuals, but I also recrognize our potential for greatness. "What a piece of work is man" and all that.

There was a time during the Cold War (and I think anyone my age will agree) that we all generally felt there would be a nuclear war of some kind, possibly within our lifetime. It seemed inevitable. It was going to happen. Paranoia runs deep.

Now that feeling doesn't exist so much. And I realized that the world has gone through just that sense of Paranoia a billion times. The Plague that wiped out half of Europe was seen as a direct punishment from God for our "behavior". Obviously we didn't know what we were doing! God hates us!

Paranoia had a field day in the fourteenth century.

I call this feeling of Paranoia the "Five O'clock in the Morning Dreads." You know that feeling when you wake up, can't get back to sleep, and your brain starts racing aorund all the terrible things in your life, and how useless it all seems? I hate that.

So I suppose my real answer is "I know what I'm doing, but if I don't want to get eaten I'd better watch the asshole trying to outrun me."

 

[Myrrdin]

Thats the free market for you. Designed to produce commodities as cheaply as possible for the consumer. After all they,re the voters, the politicians are chasing.

Whats the alternative? Do you think all producers of a single product should join together, decide the price they,re going to charge, the methods of production and how much theyre going to produce?

I think thats called a cartel. The politicians would soon have us in court, lampooning us for trying to fix the market.

Look at oil prices, thats an example of OPEC producers fixing the price and limiting production. Much of France is currently at a standstill, because of workers blockading the oil refineries in protest, at the climb in prices.

Like many producers, i don,t have the luxury of deciding how much i can charge for my product. I,m told by my customer what they,re going to pay for it. And its up to me to do it at a cost that will leave me a profit margin. With all the best in modern science and technology i can afford. Otherwise my customers go elsewhere. Its a global market, goods shipped all round the world. GATT and all the free market agreements see to that. Protectionism is currently a dirty word.

I can,t afford to be a Luddite, much as i would like to be. Just to standstill, would actually mean falling behind. Its a dog eat dog world. To survive i have to stay ahead of the competition. Hoping that they go to the wall first.

 

[Whispersecret]

I think that the worry I feel comes from my observations of people I come in contact with everyday, but also from what I see via the media. If you think about it, movies like Brokovich and A Civil Action are entertaining, but also help contribute to the feeling that all Big Business is Evil. People like hearing bad news. Nobody is interested in seeing a movie about a corporation that cleaned up a lake of it's own accord. It's rare to see advertising campaigns like Chevron's "People do." However, I think that there are a lot of companies out there who do do business responsibly. (Probably because they're afraid to get caught, but that's fine.)

I also think that many Americans are beginning to be of the mindset that, "I deserve a great life. I'll take whatever I can get away with, work as little as possible." Just look at all the ridiculous lawsuits that try to get money for people who don't deserve it.

When the Northridge earthquake hit, many of our neighbors were figuring out ways to get the absolute most out of the insurance companies, sometimes in unscrupulous ways and sometimes for compensation that they had no right claiming. (New windows because the earthquake "loosened them" when in reality, they were just old windows. That type of thing.) But they all justified it because, after all, it was the big insurance company. And it angered me because I really wanted to do the same thing and beautify my house at someone else's expense, and it didn't seem fair that the neighbors got money and their houses got remodeled, repainted, etc, while we squeaked by with fixing only what was legitimately damaged by the quake.

It seems to me that that type of behavior is becoming more commonplace and even acceptable. But that could just be my perception. If individuals behave unethically like this, then how can we expect large companies to be any better?

Now bear with me here, I'm going to bring religion into this. If fewer people are attending church, where a minister would basically tell you how to Be Good, then where will they get that message?

Everywhere you look you get messages that say, "Get What You Can." Look at the money this schmo got in his personal injury suit! Look at how your friend got an inflated estimate on his car damage so he could make money off his car accident! If you're involved in some unusual situation you can write a book or do lectures or talk show appearances and be famous. Is there anyplace besides church/temple where people are being told about the spiritual/emotional benefits of "doing Good?" If all we see are the bad examples, then might we not all eventually give in and make that false insurance claim?

 

[Whispersecret]

Now, I went off on a tangent. I apologize.

More on topic, I don't think we really do know exactly what we're doing. There isn't any way we possibly can. Humans will always try new things, like gene-splicing, because that's exploration, curiosity, etc. The only way we'll find out the ramifications is to do it, make mistakes, and hopefully learn something from it. You can't always predict what will happen, nor can you foresee what people will do with new knowledge. Good things may come of mapping the human gene code, but in all probabilty, bad things will too. That's the way life is. We just have to do our best to nullify the bad as much as possible when it comes.

 

[Guest]

Creeping Paranoia...

Look out, Gaucho, they're behind you!

 

[CreamyLady]

We are a curious species, and whenever we see a bottle on the beach, we are more than likely to pick it up and open it.

It never seems to occur to us that some genies are good, but a great many are bad, and there is no simple or magical way to get the genie back inside when we have figured out which is which.

I sometimes think that being slow of thought is not such a bad thing, when accompanied by a corresponding slowness of action. Taking the time to think a thing through might save a world of unhappiness down the line.

But we are instant gratification junkies, and being slow to act will land us in the economic boneyard.

I'm going to go ponder this while watching the grass grow.

 

[Gaucho]

Dixon - I know that hour well. The Danes call it the "Hour of the Wolf" - that time just before dawn when all things seem bleakest. On the days when I wake at that hour, no amount of reasoning or rationalization will save me from the worries of my life. When it strikes, like the great, ravaging beast that it is, there is no hope for me and little for humanity. It reminds me that when Dante finally made his way through Hell, there were two rivers for him to drink from; one to forgive his sins and the other to forget them. On mornings like that, when even the comfort of your bed won't protect you, thank God for Irish coffee!

Whisper - I understand what you mean about attending church, but my problem is this: At most churches, you're not told to be good, you are told HOW to be good. And the how invariably is tied in with the agenda of whatever religion that church happens to be promoting. Even Mother Theresa admitted that she did what she did to show by example the righteousness of the Catholic way. For good or for ill, I have grown up with an anti-authority streak in me. And I don't believe in what Carlyle called the "collective wisdom of individual ignorance". Even if a majority of people believe something, that doesn't make it right. If someone knows and understands the concept of right and wrong (or good and evil, if you will) - keeping in mind that those things are, for most of us, a matter of perspective, what benefit does that someone get from being told to be good? And if they don't understand the concept, no amount of preaching will help. Don't get me wrong. I go to church almost every Sunday myself. And occasionally I learn something interesting. But most of what I hear ends up being a form of propaganda and I stop listening.

Roger - Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.

Creamy - I think the surge of people seeking God (or some sort of spirituality) and "that old time religion" is in reaction to that very thing. The world is so crazy nowadays and we are assaulted with that craziness in ways unimaginable even a half a century ago. People think that if they can nail down something to believe in or find a place to plant their feet then they'll be able to deal with it. The problem is that no matter where you plant your feet, your doing it on sand and it constantly shifts under you. And there is no getting any genie back into the bottle. A reporter once told Stephen King that the people who read his books had to be a little "warped". King not only agreed with him but added that all people would need to have a "few warps in their record" in order to survive life as we entered the new millennium.

Frankly, I think he's right.

 

[CreamyLady]

Sometimes it seems that the best option is to not fight the undertow; just go wherever it takes you.

It never seems to occur to anyone to stay out of the damned water in the first place.

There is an enormous attraction to me in just sitting still and looking at the path for a bit before putting a foot out. Unfortunately, that stillness is a luxury, and more often than not one must just start running, running as fast as one can just to keep in place.

The only solution I can think of is to cultivate the stillness; make it a necessity -- not a luxury -- and practice it daily.

The chances of this happening on a global scale are those of that snowball in hell, but then -- Dante postulated a frozen hell. A chance exists.

 

[Siren]

GAUCHO..........

 

[Whispersecret]

Gaucho, how nice it is to participate in this discussion. I get little real discourse talking with my sons, five and six years of age.

Even if a majority of people believe something, that doesn't make it right.

I totally agree.

If someone knows and understands the concept of right and wrong (or good and evil, if you will) -keeping in mind that those things are, for most of us, a matter of perspective, what benefit does that someone get from being told to be good? And if they don't understand the concept, no amount of preaching will help.

I agree and respectfully disagree. If someone doesn't understand the concept, you're right. The preaching won't help.

But I see benefit in the reminding. (I'm a schoolteacher, so forgive the analogy I'm going to make, because I think that the nature of children and their behavior is often just the same that of adults, and vice-versa.) Let's look at a child who knows that his parents don't want him to see R movies. All his friends are always raving about the R movies they've seen. He's often tempted to watch one, but knows his parents wouldn't approve. One day he plans to see one such rented movie at a friend's house, and by coincidence, his parents ask him what he plans to do. He tells them he's going to watch a movie, and they remind him that they don't approve of R movies for him. This reminder is enough to steer him away from an act he KNEW was wrong.

Isn't there a benefit to being reminded of what is right and what is wrong, even for adults?

CreamyLady, I think your idea of slowing down is a wise one, yet most people only want to go faster. When someone asks you how you are, isn't sort of a stock answer to reply, "Oh, I'm so incredibly busy." Like it's something to be admired and if you're not busy, there's something wrong with you?

 

[Gaucho]

Isn't there a benefit to being reminded of what is right and what is wrong, even for adults?

Frankly, no. In fact, most of the time when I am "reminded" by others of what is right and wrong, I get very irritated by it. Now, in this area, there is a very real difference between talking to a child and talking to an adult. To take your analogy at face value, if, in fact, the child has already decided to watch the R-rated movie and has what he feels is a reasonable opportunity to do so without his parents knowing about it, his parents reminder will have no effect at all. They might be telling him not to shoot heroin or fuck sheep for all the good it will do. All the reminder does in the child's mind is raise the ante, making him aware of the consequences if he gets caught. Imagine, if you will, the conversation between the parent and the child regarding the movie:

P: "Son (or daughter, it really doesn't matter), remember now, we don't want you to watch R-rated movies."

S: "Why, mom?"

P: "Well, because they are a little too adult for you."

S: "What does that mean?"

P: "It means that they have things in them that you either won't understand or aren't ready to see. Things that your father and I don't approve of."

S: "What kind of things?"

P: "Well, these movies have a lot of ultra-realistic scenes of violence in them, and sometimes sex as well, that aren't meant to be seen by kids your age."

S: "You mean like "Jurassic Park?"

P: "Not exactly, no. More real, with lots of blood and gore."

S: "More real than getting eaten while sitting on the potty?"

P: "Yes."

S: "Jimmy (his friend from down the street - and don't all our children have such friends?) told me that his parents let him watch R-rated movies, even the ones with sex in them, and he said it doesn't bother them at all."

P: "Well, I can't speak for Jimmy's parents. And just because some parents think it's okay doesn't mean that your father and I agree with it. Now, please, son. Promise me that you won't watch an R-rated movie."

S: "I promise."

And of course, at the first opportunity, he goes off and watches one, if for no other reason than because he's been told it's something he shouldn't. Now, obviously, I'm not implying that we don't talk to kids. I've taught in schools myself and I understand that sometimes you have to lay out the rules. Kids, however, seem to respond much more to show rather than tell. In other words, kids pick up on what they see (the unspoken example you give them) much better than on what you tell them (do as I say, not as I do).

Adults are a different matter. When I'm admonished to "Be Charitable", "Be Kind", "Be Good", etc., I have one of two reactions. If I feel that I already am being those things, my response is "What are you talking to me for?". If I'm not (for whatever reason), my reaction is "Fuck You! Who in the Hell do you think you are, telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing?" For one thing, experience has taught me that people by and large don't practice what they preach. The clergyman who is telling you to be good is also thinking about having carnal relations with the altar boy (or girl). The President of the United States is getting a blow job from an intern young enough to be his daughter while he's on the phone with members of congress.

The only answer I have to this is to work on myself, rather than on those around me. If I can make myself a better, more understanding, more open, and more aware person, knowing full well that my standards may not be reflected in the judgement of other people, and if that should somehow rub off on someone else and make a difference in their lives, than that's great. If no one ever notices it or doesn't give a shit, that's okay, too.

I have a difficult time with the concept of telling or "reminding" people of what's right and wrong. Certainly we have to advise children (especially our kids) as best we can and hope that they will listen to us, knowing again that children will follow our example far more than our words. I have enough trouble deciding just what's right and wrong in my own life and that quite often changes on a regular basis.

I, too, appreciate this discussion. One of the things that I like most about this board is the fact that we can discuss anything and (for the most part) do it with civility and without rancor.

Who'd athunk you could do that on a porn site?

 

[CreamyLady]

My stock answer when people ask me how I am is okay. If my eyes are doing that pinwheel thing, I say harassed.

Busy doesn't mean anything. Everyone is busy; no one needs, really, to hear that someone else is.

Every two years or so, I dig out my copy of The Pilgrim's Progress. I do not consider myself Christian; however, the tale of a soul's progress by doing what is right is very salutary. It never hurts to pick up one's socks.

 

[insideShiraz]

Shhhhhh..did YOU hear that?!.....

I AM one of the people that read all of this thread. Jeeezus, Joseph and Mary. This was some GOOD shit!

Big Tobacco- Thank god the cancer smokers won all of that Money! Because now I can sue those same smokers for all of the second-hand smoke that I didn't choose to smoke for my entire life. I guess you can tell that I am a non-smoker.

My big paranoia is walking to the store and surviving. If anyone fucks with me, they're gonna'get one big MotherFucker boot in the face. I'll probably die. Kids with guns.

whispersecret, I think I'm in love with you. There is a lawsuit for so much bullshit. However, I have seen the damage to walls and houses and freeways in Northridge. I missed that one by one day.

creamy lady- I love Pasadena. I used to go hiking in the mountains above Hill St. all the time. When the smog gets blown into San Bernadino, there isn't a prettier town on earth.

Religion: Which one?

insideShiraz

 

[Gingersnap]

I understand your arguments but have come to believe that fear is best faced head on. that includes paranoia. I will not let fear rule my life or stop me from taking the higher road. I take responsibilty for my beliefs and decisions.

Gaucho I think people should be reminded that not so much right or wrong, just that we live in a world community. Accept responsibility for your decisions and quit trying to blame others. I am very plain spoken and I accept that a lot of people do not appreciate that charactoristic.

I ran from the bear until I heard a speaker who reminded me that paranonia like fear exposed is like turning on the light. You see it for what it is (no boogy man). Taking responsibilty for the part you play in your own life and acknowledging that you can change your own world by changing your view is true freedom. It is also a life lived in the concious real world. Crepe hangers (ain't it awful) people are trapped in their own pain. I am rambling again and I wanted to say this I see those points of view but I refuse to live in that room of despair. I believe that if you back up your words with actions that it will remind people that change is always possible and so is hope.

 

[TPLover]

Incredible Sunday Morning Discussion!

Oh, how I've enjoyed reading this thread this morning. Nearly all of the discourse has been intelligent and thoughtful, even if I don't agree with everything I've read.

DCL, you've done it again--how is it you can arounse my mind and body at the same time? Many have tried, few succeed.

Creamy Lady, you and DCL are so right. We are responsible for ourselves, and to do what we can for others. I am not responsible FOR anyone else, but I am responsible TO many.

Obviusly, Gingersnap, I believe in what you wrote. Once, I used to believe failure and dejection were my lot in life, and that they were caused by the failures of others to do right by me (as I saw it). Then, an epiphany. After years of self-pity and anger, I discovered that if I wished to continue to live, I had to accept my responsibilities, learn how to be different and get on with it. Thank my Higher Power for forcing me to face myself and life. Twenty-seven years later, I'm more grateful than ever. Life is good--if you let it be. (Participating in this bb is a special part of the good life for me. Thanks to you for being here, everyone.)