Creativity: An Art Or Skill?

[PaganKinktress]

Hi there everyone,

I'm interested in your thoughts on what you believe underlies the creative process (and particularly how it plays out in the creative writing process). I am cohosting an internet radio show/podcast and this is going to be a theme on tonight's show.

Do you think creativity is something inherent or is it a skill that can be developed? What inspires you creatively?

Share your thoughts....and I'll be sharing insights posted on the show later. Thanks!

 

[rbijon]

Hi there everyone,

I'm interested in your thoughts on what you believe underlies the creative process (and particularly how it plays out in the creative writing process). I am cohosting an internet radio show/podcast and this is going to be a theme on tonight's show.

Do you think creativity is something inherent or is it a skill that can be developed? What inspires you creatively?

Share your thoughts....and I'll be sharing insights posted on the show later. Thanks!

......it could be the wine!

 

[PaganKinktress]

Hahaha....yeah, wine has been known to bring out some "special thoughts" that may or may not translate so well into the writing process.

At least that's been my experience. Ahem.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Hi there everyone,

I'm interested in your thoughts on what you believe underlies the creative process (and particularly how it plays out in the creative writing process). I am cohosting an internet radio show/podcast and this is going to be a theme on tonight's show.

Do you think creativity is something inherent or is it a skill that can be developed? What inspires you creatively?

Share your thoughts....and I'll be sharing insights posted on the show later. Thanks!

It is inherent but usually requires a great deal of training to do anything worthwhile. Most uncoached creativity is garbage (along with most of everything else!) That's why for centuries youngsters who showed some were apprenticed to a master to learn the most effective ways of expressing their creativity. That's something we ought to go back to, IMO.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

I think everyone has a creative bent, but needs training in how to express it. Art, writing, dancing, music, photography, strategy, logistics, finances, everything has creativity in it, but how it comes out is wildly different.

One of the best lines I ever heard was over heard at a party. An accountant was talking to an artist, and the artist said "oh so you're not very creative." To which the accountant said "Not at all. I tell the most fascinating stories with numbers". He was right, he could too.

If you are looking for creativity in america, check out Ken Robinson's TED talk and sigh.

 

[PaganKinktress]

voluptuary_manque: Nicely said! I like your thoughts on creative apprenticeship. Why do you think we've gotten away from that concept or practice?

Salvor-Hardon: I tend to think in a similar vein, in that, I have always believed we all have *some* creative ability that we're born with....its almost a matter of relativity...(not necessarily the genetic-relative thing though--yet that in itself might be another topic for another day). Do you think how we channel our creativity is something we are then conditioned toward? For example, something dependent on what we're exposed to in early life?

Thanks everyone who has shared so far. You're giving me awesome insights!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

voluptuary_manque: Nicely said! I like your thoughts on creative apprenticeship. Why do you think we've gotten away from that concept or practice?

My guess is that it goes to the attempt by the society to standardize/industrialize education. The pattern for sitting in neat rows and all doing the same task comes off the assembly line. Schools not only taught the skills that industry needed but the behaviors, as well. It's getting worse, not better, courtesy of No Child Left Behind and the increased federal incursions into local school districts. Not that some of them don't need it but we are headed into a 'one size fits nobody' period. It will end because it won't work but I'm not about to wait around. That's one reason I'm retiring.

Another reason is that apprenticeships are passe'. Middle class parents think that a four year college degree is the fast track into prosperity for their offspring. Given the income disparity between the average sociology graduate and, say, a journeyman plumber it is easy to see the fallacy in such beliefs!

Another is that not all masters are good at teaching. Some of them, historically, were monsters who should be forbidden to come within a hundred yards of a live child.

Still, given a bit of work, I honestly believe that such a program would really benefit the majority of children and society, as well.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

voluptuary_manque: Nicely said! I like your thoughts on creative apprenticeship. Why do you think we've gotten away from that concept or practice?

Salvor-Hardon: I tend to think in a similar vein, in that, I have always believed we all have *some* creative ability that we're born with....its almost a matter of relativity...(not necessarily the genetic-relative thing though--yet that in itself might be another topic for another day). Do you think how we channel our creativity is something we are then conditioned toward? For example, something dependent on what we're exposed to in early life?

Thanks everyone who has shared so far. You're giving me awesome insights!

I think Shaw gives us some insight.

"Reasonable men adapt to the world. Unreasonable men adapt the world to themselves. That's why all progress depends on unreasonable men."


Creativity in part means upsetting the status quo, of doing things differently and oddly. We have to be a bit unreasonable. That in turn leads to other people being uncomfortable, and social constructs falling apart.

Look at the way the RIAA, MPAA, Publishers and Producers are going ape shit over digital media. Someone was creative, opened a new venue and suddenly the apocalypse is upon us because you don't have to go to a store to by a cd to get one good song.

Creativity takes risk, risks take courage. I think we all too often squash courage, and creativity by the way we teach, the way we define "safe" and "normal". I just last week gave a presentation on "How to use video games as a teaching tool" to a group of 30 teachers. They were shocked that games that have been around for years are actually great educational tools. But as soon as that label "game" is attached, it can't be used in school because school is supposed to be serious and every one do the same thing. To be creativity we have ot be individuals, and the public and private schools can't handle that many ways of learning and thinking.

I think we have lost apprenticeships and learning by doing in favor of standardized tests and a way to categorize and label people in ways we are familiar and comfortable with, and its killing our pioneering, and creative outlets.

And somewhere Harrison Bergeron weeps.


P.S. the Ted Robinson talk is here:

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

 

[PaganKinktress]

VM: I like the way you think. Have you ever read John Taylor Gotto? His piece on "Against School" is rather provocative.

My other theory hinges on the notion that creative thinking (and expression) in general is something somewhat frowned upon in American society, especially. Group-think is rewarded while individual creative expression is something to distract from. Creative thinkers are often classified as "troublemakers". Heaven forbid if kids in school were *encouraged* to think for themselves. Its easier to control people when we move away from tapping into one's natural creative reservoir.


And for what its worth, my undergrad degree is in sociology.

 

[PaganKinktress]

Sal: You pretty much said what I was trying to say, albeit in a much more elegant fashion!

I will respond more in depth later...and am definitely sharing these insights on the radio program. Its time for me to get my act together and get ready; we air in about 20 minutes! If you can, feel free to give a listen. The Wayward Muse link below takes you to the show page where you can hear the live internet stream...I think you have to register a user name on Blog Talk Radio to participate in the show's chatroom. (You can even call in to the show, however I believe long distance charges apply.) Any and all are welcome to join in though.

Thanks so much everyone for the great ideas shared here. I can't wait to talk more about them.

 

[oggbashan]

From the other side of the Atlantic I think that we tolerate eccentrics rather better than in the US.

Do I care if my neighbour is a poet? A musician? An author?

No. As long as my neighbour's activities don't bother me, nor frighten the horses, I'll accept them as normal. I hope they'll do the same for me.

Og the eccentric.

 

[rbijon]

.....I still think it's the wine

 

[oggbashan]

Many of my creative ideas come in dreams, or as Dryden put it in his translation of Virgil's Aeneid:

Two gates the silent house of Sleep adorn;
Of polish'd ivory this, that of transparent horn:
True visions thro' transparent horn arise;
Thro' polish'd ivory pass deluding lies.

Og

 

[Recidiva]

It's both.

You can surpass a talented but lazy writer with skill. Lazy talent is going to have passion and imagery, but lack the ability to edit and pull it all together so it isn't just fatuous diary scribbles.

You can surpass a skilled but lazy writer with talent. Raw power can knock a solid punch to a reader when the perfectly diagrammed sentence can be missing any flavor. Perfectly described sawdust is still...sawdust.

You need both to be truly extraordinary and be able to take risks that do not fall on their literary ass. You can play it safe with either and be appealing, but not introduce genius into the world.

Talent can provide you with the ability to find inspiration in the formless and arbitrary and give it some form and order. Skill gives you the ability to polish and express that form and order into something that reveals itself to be art and not ego.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Talent + Discipline = Art

 

[Huckleman2000]

From the other side of the Atlantic I think that we tolerate eccentrics rather better than in the US.

Do I care if my neighbour is a poet? A musician? An author?

No. As long as my neighbour's activities don't bother me, nor frighten the horses, I'll accept them as normal. I hope they'll do the same for me.

Og the eccentric.

A very large part of that attitude is, I think, due to your National Health System. Here in the US, I'm a bit of an eccentric - I'm an actor, primarily in community theater productions, but occasionally I get paid for something. My small condo is paid off, so my living expenses are actually quite low, and I can make do with a part-time job that still allows my evenings free for rehearsals and performances. At least, I could get by if I could get health insurance at a reasonable cost.

As it is, most Artists of any type must necessarily be avocational. To receive any health coverage, US citizens pretty much have to work a full-time job. Few of those jobs would qualify as truly artistic endeavors.

The MBA-ization of the workplace not only stifles creativity, it marginalizes people whose strengths are creative as well. Society becomes coarser as a result.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

The MBA-ization of the workplace not only stifles creativity, it marginalizes people whose strengths are creative as well. Society becomes coarser as a result.

And in the end, less profitable.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

It is inherent but usually requires a great deal of training to do anything worthwhile. Most uncoached creativity is garbage (along with most of everything else!) That's why for centuries youngsters who showed some were apprenticed to a master to learn the most effective ways of expressing their creativity. That's something we ought to go back to, IMO.

It's both.

You can surpass a talented but lazy writer with skill. Lazy talent is going to have passion and imagery, but lack the ability to edit and pull it all together so it isn't just fatuous diary scribbles.

You can surpass a skilled but lazy writer with talent. Raw power can knock a solid punch to a reader when the perfectly diagrammed sentence can be missing any flavor. Perfectly described sawdust is still...sawdust.

You need both to be truly extraordinary and be able to take risks that do not fall on their literary ass. You can play it safe with either and be appealing, but not introduce genius into the world.

Talent can provide you with the ability to find inspiration in the formless and arbitrary and give it some form and order. Skill gives you the ability to polish and express that form and order into something that reveals itself to be art and not ego.

I totes agree with both of you.

Talent + Discipline = Art

If'n I may be so cheeky as to make an addendum to your maxim, milady...

Talent + Discipline + Passion = Art

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I totes agree with both of you.



If'n I may be so cheeky as to make an addendum to your maxim, milady...

Talent + Discipline + Passion = Art

Quite so. Given what we have learned about the functions of the human brain in the last thirty years, anyone can learn to draw. Given what we have learned about color theory in the last five hundred years, anyone can learn to paint. The difference between someone who knows how to draw and paint and an artist is that the artist must. The inner daemon compels them to.

 

[Stella_Omega]

"He who works with his hands is a laborer.
He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman.
He who works with his hands, head, and heart-- is an artist." Attributed to Charles Dickens, among others...

My current branch of learning (which is little and therefore a Dangerous Thing ) leads me to postulate that creativity is a brain function, possibly supported by a set of cells called "spindle neurons" which make quick connections between widely separated places in the brain, and are implicated in all kinds of cognitive functions including empathy and memory.

What each person does with that brain function can vary. And there is a lot of variance in the efficiency of different functions from brain to brain.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

"He who works with his hands is a laborer.
He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman.
He who works with his hands, head, and heart-- is an artist." Attributed to Charles Dickens, among others...

My current branch of learning (which is little and therefore a Dangerous Thing ) leads me to postulate that creativity is a brain function, possibly supported by a set of cells called "spindle neurons" which make quick connections between widely separated places in the brain, and are implicated in all kinds of cognitive functions including empathy and memory.

What each person does with that brain function can vary. And there is a lot of variance in the efficiency of different functions from brain to brain.

Unfortunately, many who would be artists have no craft. I personally have no yearning for the heights. The trio "soldier, scholar, craftsman" is all I aspire to. For those who turn wood into art I have nothing but deepest admiration.

 

[PaganKinktress]

Damn. Recidiva, what a thought-provoking response you shared. What you said resonates for me on a couple levels. I highlighted the areas that really spoke to me and that I personally need to reflect on a bit more deeply. But I feel compelled to ask:

Where does that "raw power" come from?

Thanks so much for taking the time to share these poignant insights.

It's both.

You can surpass a talented but lazy writer with skill. Lazy talent is going to have passion and imagery, but lack the ability to edit and pull it all together so it isn't just fatuous diary scribbles.

You can surpass a skilled but lazy writer with talent. Raw power can knock a solid punch to a reader when the perfectly diagrammed sentence can be missing any flavor. Perfectly described sawdust is still...sawdust.

You need both to be truly extraordinary and be able to take risks that do not fall on their literary ass. You can play it safe with either and be appealing, but not introduce genius into the world.

Talent can provide you with the ability to find inspiration in the formless and arbitrary and give it some form and order. Skill gives you the ability to polish and express that form and order into something that reveals itself to be art and not ego.

 

[jomar]

...
My current branch of learning (which is little and therefore a Dangerous Thing ) leads me to postulate that creativity is a brain function, possibly supported by a set of cells called "spindle neurons" which make quick connections between widely separated places in the brain, and are implicated in all kinds of cognitive functions including empathy and memory.

...

Creativity is not an art. Art comes from creativity. As do a lot of other things as well, of course.

Back when I was paying attention most definitions of creativity agreed that it involved the ability to produce original ideas and/or products, involved perceiving new and unsuspected relationships and being able to establish a unique and improved order among what would seem unrelated factors.

Again, last time I looked, creativity was positively correlated with intelligence up to about IQ 120. After that, not. So maybe those spindle neurons thingies are more dense in smart people who display more creativity. Somebody should do a study.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JOMAR

Plenty of studies have been done. Plenty of people are creative. The problem is the folks who resist novelty and innovation and progress. Take WAL-MART. It's been a proven success for a generation, and I cant name one corporation thats copied WAL-MARTs business model.

America's financial crisis would be over in one month if we put people back to work. We wont do it. We'd rather borrow 2 trillion dollars that costs 45K per American than create a 45K job.

The real question is why are otherwise smart people so effing dum when it comes to innovations and progress.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I totes agree with both of you.



If'n I may be so cheeky as to make an addendum to your maxim, milady...

Talent + Discipline + Passion = Art

Completely agree with you, Mr. Cheeky!