Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
james said,
Terrorists are recruited from impoverished, angry young men who have little hope for their futures and self betterment. Men who can afford to marry and support a family don't become terrorists.
there is some truth to this, particularly for some of the 'footsoldiers,' but i'd remind you it doesn't fit some of the 9-11 hijackers;
iirc, Jarrah (sp?) was succeeding, was engaged to be married, not at all poor. same for Atta --see below. i'd remind you also that the founder of the Islamic militant movement in Egypt was a dr. Osama is a well educated rich kid.
i think more relevant is that the young person is confronted with brazen injustices and violence from, in the case, the US, or at the behest of the US (so perceived).
it's also worth mentioning the old saw that 'terrorist' and 'freedom fighter' are often labels with no foundation except the eye of the beholder.
===
wikipedia, muhammad atta
Atta was born on September 1, 1968 in Kafr el Sheikh, a city in the Nile Delta in Egypt,[1] and also carried a Saudi passport. He grew up in a strict family in Giza, a suburb of Cairo, Egypt.[1] Atta's father wished his children to be all well-educated. From childhood, Atta spent most of his time staying home and studying. He performed well in his studies and graduated with a degree in architecture from Cairo University. He was apparently not particularly religious during this period.
In 1992, Atta moved to Germany, where he was registered as a student of urban planning at the Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg in Hamburg, and remained there until graduating in 1999.[2] There are other reports that Atta attended Valencia School of Medicine in Spain during this period, though these may be a case of mistaken identity.[3]
In Hamburg, Atta worked on a thesis exploring the history of Aleppo's urban landscapes and was invited to Aleppo by his professor Dittmar Machule for a three-day archeological visit.[4] It explored the general themes of the conflict between Arab civilization and modernity. Atta criticized how the modern skyscrapers and development projects in Aleppo were disrupting the fabric of that city by blocking community streets and altering the skyline. There were reports that he worked as a car salesman while studying.[5]
In Germany, Atta was registered as a citizen of the United Arab Emirates. His German friends describe him as an intelligent man with religious beliefs who grew angry over the Western policy toward the Middle East, including the Oslo Accords and the Gulf War. MSNBC in its special "The Making of the Death Pilots" interviewed German friend Ralph Bodenstein who traveled, worked and talked a lot with Mohamed Atta. Bodenstein said, "He was most imbued [sic] actually about Israeli politics in the region and about U.S. protection of these Israeli politics in the region. And he was to a degree personally suffering from that."
----
wikipedia ziad jarrah
Early life
Jarrah was born in Mazraa, Lebanon, to a wealthy family. His parents were nominally Muslim Sunnis, although they lived a secular lifestyle. When he was seven years old, Israel invaded southern Lebanon, a fact he referred to later in life. His parents sent him to a Catholic private school in Beirut called La Sagesse, where he volunteered at a camp for disabled children and helped run an anti-drug program. Later on he served a nearby Church helping Orphaned children there. His academic success to this point was mediocre, and his parents arranged for private tutors in mathematics, physics and chemistry.
He remained close to his family; he was apparently the only 9/11 hijacker to have close family ties, including with his uncle Assem Omar Jarrah whose work permit would later be found in the wreckage with Ziad's passport. In his childhood, he had always wanted to fly planes, but his family discouraged this. "I stopped him from being a pilot," his father told the Wall Street Journal a week after the attacks. "I only have one son and I was afraid that he would crash."[2]
From 1995 to 1996, while Ziad Jarrah was living in Lebanon according to his family, somebody of the same name rented an apartment in Brooklyn, New York. The landlords claimed it was the same Ziad Jarrah as in the FBI photographs.[3]
In the spring of 1996, Jarrah moved to Germany with his cousin Salim. They were there to take a certificate course in German at the University of Greifswald required of foreigners studying in Germany who do not speak the language. While sharing an apartment with his cousin, he reportedly attended discos and beach parties, and his attendance at the mosque fell off. He met Aysel Şengün, a Turkish woman studying dentistry, and the two became good friends. They dated on and off for the remainder of his life and lived together briefly, which vexed his more religious friends, and celebrated an unofficial wedding on April 1, 1999.
Terrorists are recruited from impoverished, angry young men who have little hope for their futures and self betterment. Men who can afford to marry and support a family don't become terrorists.
there is some truth to this, particularly for some of the 'footsoldiers,' but i'd remind you it doesn't fit some of the 9-11 hijackers;
iirc, Jarrah (sp?) was succeeding, was engaged to be married, not at all poor. same for Atta --see below. i'd remind you also that the founder of the Islamic militant movement in Egypt was a dr. Osama is a well educated rich kid.
i think more relevant is that the young person is confronted with brazen injustices and violence from, in the case, the US, or at the behest of the US (so perceived).
it's also worth mentioning the old saw that 'terrorist' and 'freedom fighter' are often labels with no foundation except the eye of the beholder.
===
wikipedia, muhammad atta
Atta was born on September 1, 1968 in Kafr el Sheikh, a city in the Nile Delta in Egypt,[1] and also carried a Saudi passport. He grew up in a strict family in Giza, a suburb of Cairo, Egypt.[1] Atta's father wished his children to be all well-educated. From childhood, Atta spent most of his time staying home and studying. He performed well in his studies and graduated with a degree in architecture from Cairo University. He was apparently not particularly religious during this period.
In 1992, Atta moved to Germany, where he was registered as a student of urban planning at the Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg in Hamburg, and remained there until graduating in 1999.[2] There are other reports that Atta attended Valencia School of Medicine in Spain during this period, though these may be a case of mistaken identity.[3]
In Hamburg, Atta worked on a thesis exploring the history of Aleppo's urban landscapes and was invited to Aleppo by his professor Dittmar Machule for a three-day archeological visit.[4] It explored the general themes of the conflict between Arab civilization and modernity. Atta criticized how the modern skyscrapers and development projects in Aleppo were disrupting the fabric of that city by blocking community streets and altering the skyline. There were reports that he worked as a car salesman while studying.[5]
In Germany, Atta was registered as a citizen of the United Arab Emirates. His German friends describe him as an intelligent man with religious beliefs who grew angry over the Western policy toward the Middle East, including the Oslo Accords and the Gulf War. MSNBC in its special "The Making of the Death Pilots" interviewed German friend Ralph Bodenstein who traveled, worked and talked a lot with Mohamed Atta. Bodenstein said, "He was most imbued [sic] actually about Israeli politics in the region and about U.S. protection of these Israeli politics in the region. And he was to a degree personally suffering from that."
----
wikipedia ziad jarrah
Early life
Jarrah was born in Mazraa, Lebanon, to a wealthy family. His parents were nominally Muslim Sunnis, although they lived a secular lifestyle. When he was seven years old, Israel invaded southern Lebanon, a fact he referred to later in life. His parents sent him to a Catholic private school in Beirut called La Sagesse, where he volunteered at a camp for disabled children and helped run an anti-drug program. Later on he served a nearby Church helping Orphaned children there. His academic success to this point was mediocre, and his parents arranged for private tutors in mathematics, physics and chemistry.
He remained close to his family; he was apparently the only 9/11 hijacker to have close family ties, including with his uncle Assem Omar Jarrah whose work permit would later be found in the wreckage with Ziad's passport. In his childhood, he had always wanted to fly planes, but his family discouraged this. "I stopped him from being a pilot," his father told the Wall Street Journal a week after the attacks. "I only have one son and I was afraid that he would crash."[2]
From 1995 to 1996, while Ziad Jarrah was living in Lebanon according to his family, somebody of the same name rented an apartment in Brooklyn, New York. The landlords claimed it was the same Ziad Jarrah as in the FBI photographs.[3]
In the spring of 1996, Jarrah moved to Germany with his cousin Salim. They were there to take a certificate course in German at the University of Greifswald required of foreigners studying in Germany who do not speak the language. While sharing an apartment with his cousin, he reportedly attended discos and beach parties, and his attendance at the mosque fell off. He met Aysel Şengün, a Turkish woman studying dentistry, and the two became good friends. They dated on and off for the remainder of his life and lived together briefly, which vexed his more religious friends, and celebrated an unofficial wedding on April 1, 1999.
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We should refrain from calling people names like "un-American", "ignorant", "indefensible" and "terrorist". 
