*control*

[artful]

Control,...what is it, where does it come from, where does it go, who has it, when is it passed from one to the other?

Much has been said about the aspects of control, some say in a D/s relationship, the sub is REALLY the one in control, others disagree.

An example to contemplate:

A sub is laying spread eagled on the bed, by the command of their Dom/me. They are fully exposed, naked, and waiting. Their Dom/me orders them to not move, and begins to sexually tease the sub.

Physically and verbally, the assault begins to affect the sub, in such a way as to make them want to squirm,...to move. The sub, wishing to please their Dom/me, exerts much effort in not moving.

Relentlessly, the Dom/me pursues their pleasure in teasing. Harder and harder it becomes, for the sub to NOT move. Willpower, and determination to last as long as possible, is made to be of paramount importance to the sub.

The sub, is undoubtably controlling their bodily movements, to the best of their ability. The Dom/me is testing the subs abilities to do so. The action will continue until ONE of them, BREAKS the test.

So,...who is in control,...the Dom/me or the sub?
Please give other examples as you may wish, comments and examples are welcome by all.

 

[CarolineOh]

I would say that in your scenario, the Dom/me is in control, because the sub's adherence to the rules of the scene is based on her desire to please by doing what she is told. Granted, the sub has the right to stop the scene at any time, and I know some people would say that means she is in control, but I don't think that stopping a scene is the same thing as controlling the scene.
And I think that carries over in the larger sense. I hear it said often that the sub is really in charge because she can end the realtionship at any time, but to me that isn't really true, because once you end a relationship no one is in control of it.

 

[artful]

CarO

I would say that in your scenario, the Dom/me is in control, because the sub's adherence to the rules of the scene is based on her desire to please by doing what she is told.
Granted, the sub has the right to stop the scene at any time, and I know some people would say that means she is in control, but I don't think that stopping a scene is the same thing as controlling the scene.
And I think that carries over in the larger sense. I hear it said often that the sub is really in charge because she can end the realtionship at any time, but to me that isn't really true, because once you end a relationship no one is in control of it.

I agree with your sumnation.

Thanks for your response.

 

[CarolineOh]

I'm sorry, artful, it was an error on my part. Please reread the statement with the word "not" removed, and I think it will make more sense.

 

[Red Menace]

The was I see it, they both do. There would be nothing for the Dom to control if the sub did not give. A sub would not be able to relinquish power if the Dom didn't receive it.

So who has control? Maybe neither. Or possibly both.

(Or possibly that only made sense to me...)

 

[SexyChele]

In the example given, I would say the Dom/me on the surface. However, the sub could, at any given moment and for whatever reason, safeword out. (If the couple uses safewords)

But I think ultimately there is equal control here. That being that the Dom/me could end the situation just because they've felt it is time. The sub because he/she can end the scene. Both have given their trust to the other to live out what pleases both of them. In giving that trust, one acquires a certain level of control.

Well, that's how I see it.

 

[artful]

CarO

I'm sorry, artful, it was an error on my part. Please reread the statement with the word "not" removed, and I think it will make more sense.

Thanks for the clarification,...it all makes sense to me now.

 

[WillowPuss]

Control,...what is it, where does it come from, where does it go, who has it, when is it passed from one to the other?

Much has been said about the aspects of control, some say in a D/s relationship, the sub is REALLY the one in control, others disagree.

An example to contemplate:

A sub is laying spread eagled on the bed, by the command of their Dom/me. They are fully exposed, naked, and waiting. Their Dom/me orders them to not move, and begins to sexually tease the sub.

Physically and verbally, the assault begins to affect the sub, in such a way as to make them want to squirm,...to move. The sub, wishing to please their Dom/me, exerts much effort in not moving.

Relentlessly, the Dom/me pursues their pleasure in teasing. Harder and harder it becomes, for the sub to NOT move. Willpower, and determination to last as long as possible, is made to be of paramount importance to the sub.

The sub, is undoubtably controlling their bodily movements, to the best of their ability. The Dom/me is testing the subs abilities to do so. The action will continue until ONE of them, BREAKS the test.

So,...who is in control,...the Dom/me or the sub?
Please give other examples as you may wish, comments and examples are welcome by all.

From your specific example ... the Dom/me is in control.
Even if the sub moves slightly, as they eventually will, the Dom/me is still in control as surely, they will have planned exactly what they will do when the sub moves! (Well, if they haven't - then maybe they should have!)

It is my belief that in a true D/s relationship, the Dom/me is in control of all the aspects of the sub's life that has been negotiated and agreed upon. For instance ... many relationships leave the sub's children entirely up to them; or leave matter pertaining to the sub's proffessional life entirely in their hands. That is as it should be.

I assume that in most D/s ralationships, the sub has willingly given up control over certain aspects of her (I know it can be a his too - but I will use her from now on when speaking of a sub) life. If she then tries to manipulate the Dom/me into giving her what she wants reather than accepting what the Dom/me wants, to my mind that is topping and trying to take control of the situation. I suppose an example of this would be the sub saying that the next time they played she wanted the spreader bars used like last time (not a brilliant example, but it will have to suffice). Now, it could be that the Dom/me had every intention of using them anyway ... but if used it would appear the sub had her 'demand' met. The sub had really taken the control of that choice out of the Dom/mes hands.


(I am not sure this makes any sense at all. Art - if I am not clear, please let me know.)

 

[artful]

Re: Re: *control*

If she then tries to manipulate the Dom/me into giving her what she wants reather than accepting what the Dom/me wants, to my mind that is topping and trying to take control of the situation.

I agree Willow.^



I suppose an example of this would be the sub saying that the next time they played she wanted the spreader bars used like last time (not a brilliant example, but it will have to suffice). Now, it could be that the Dom/me had every intention of using them anyway ... but if used it would *APPEAR* the sub had her 'demand' met.

I agree with this also.^



The sub had really taken the control of that choice out of the Dom/mes hands.

I don't necessarily agree with this.^

The Dom/me would still have the control of whether or not to use the spreader bars. Now if the sub had demanded the Dom/me to use spreader bars, and the Dom/me wanted to exercise mental restraint again, but capitulated by using the spreader bars, THEN the Dom/me would have been topped, and the so called sub would have gained control.

Thanks for responding Willow, I hope my addendum helped to clarify, what I think you meant to say.


(I am not sure this makes any sense at all. Art - if I am not clear, please let me know.)

 

[quietwillow]

I can only speak for myself and what I have experienced as a submissive. I think that most D/s relationships start off with the submissive letting the Dom/me know her limits and such as they negotiate. Dom/mes can't read minds and neither can subs so good communication is essential in the start of a relationship.

After a relationship has become long term, circumstances change
rules and rituals that were new become ingrained and commonplace in the sub as they learn what is expected. The power is with the Dom/me at that point imho.

As for the example I believe the Dom/me would be in charge as He continues to push the sub until s/he has no choice but to move.

quietwillow

 

[artful]

quiet

I can only speak for myself and what I have experienced as a submissive. I think that most D/s relationships start off with the submissive letting the Dom/me know her limits and such as they negotiate. Dom/mes can't read minds and neither can subs so good communication is essential in the start of a relationship.

After a relationship has become long term, circumstances change
rules and rituals that were new become ingrained and commonplace in the sub as they learn what is expected. The power is with the Dom/me at that point imho.

As for the example I believe the Dom/me would be in charge as He continues to push the sub until s/he has no choice but to move.

**********************************************************

Thanks so much for responding,...and welcome to the REAL BDSM Forum. I hope to see you posting on our other threads also.

When you feel comfy,...please feel free to start a thread on any BDSM related topic, and ask your questions and reply with your opinions, as you have just done here. We value new people here as much as the oldies.

With your permission, I will address you as quiet,...for I call another of our regulars Willow.-

quietwillow

 

[A Desert Rose]

Control is given over by one to the Other. The Other directs the control over them both. The circle is complete.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I personally prefer the use ot the phrase "power exchange by consent" as the overall description of the interaction between me and my sub(s).

Control is a tool I use to exert dominance in specifc ways.

For example

CBT is a control tool, as is strap ons or bondage.

Ebony

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Control is given over by one to the Other. The Other directs the control over them both. The circle is complete.

last summer, i had the privilege of attending a lecture given by a well-known BDSM author Laura Antoniou (of the MarketPlace series).....and She talked of the beauty of the Circle of Dominance and Control......as Ms Rose referred to......

as She continually emphasized in Her talk, i would just like to add that the direction MUST meet the needs of BOTH parties, or it will NOT be a long lasting circle.........
--------------------------------------------------------

also........welcome to the BDSM Forum, quietwillow...enjoy!

 

[A Desert Rose]

I personally prefer the use ot the phrase "power exchange by consent" as the overall description of the interaction between me and my sub(s).

Control is a tool I use to exert dominance in specifc ways.

For example

CBT is a control tool, as is strap ons or bondage.

Ebony

Power Exchange by Consent: I like what that says. Covers the whole idea with in just a few words.

May I use your "Satan begone, you have no power here" line whenever I feel the need? That is a great thought too, Eb.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Power Exchange by Consent: I like what that says. Covers the whole idea with in just a few words.

May I use your "Satan begone, you have no power here" line whenever I feel the need? That is a great thought too, Eb.

By all means. I stole it from one of my favorite comedians. Darrell Hammond. he is currently on SNL.

Eb

 

[artful]

Adr

Control is given over by one to the Other. The Other directs the control over them both. The circle is complete.

Yes,...this is so Rose. Let's expound on that a little. When a sub gives control over to a Dom/me to make their decisions for them, to direct their actions, perform rituals, set rules etc.

Normally it is done by an agreement between the two beforehand. Either verbally or on paper, and outlines specific areas, and/or boundaries the sub allows the Dom/me authority.

From time to time, in the beginning of a NEW relationship, and even in one which has been established for quite some time. A sub may consciously or subconsciously test their Dom/me, by disagreement in SOME area they are not comfy with.

Usually when this happens, it comes about by not understanding what was agreed to in the first place. Sometimes it happens because hard limits changed or some other unknown enters the equation.

It is the duty and obligation of the Dom/me to address these happenings when they occur, resolve the issue by clarifying the problem, and explaining what NEEDS correcting.

These are the times when open discussion, and honest communication should be entered into, with the sub having no fear of punishment or discipline being exacted afterwards.

This doesn't mean the Dom/me has relinquished control over the discussion.

As I see it, the Dom/me should exert their control in leading the talk, (steering the conversation if you will), enabling the sub to observe through the Dom/mes eyes, why it needs correcting.

If control is not maintained by the Dom/me, then a failure has occurred. At least THAT is how I see it. All comments and examples welcomed.

 

[artful]

Sis

By all means. I stole it from one of my favorite comedians. Darrell Hammond. he is currently on SNL.

Eb

What you said is true,...but Darrell stole THAT line from "Jimmy Swaggart"!

 

[artful]

luv

last summer, i had the privilege of attending a lecture given by a well-known BDSM author Laura Antoniou (of the MarketPlace series).....and She talked of the beauty of the Circle of Dominance and Control......as Ms Rose referred to......

as She continually emphasized in Her talk, i would just like to add that the direction MUST meet the needs of BOTH parties, or it will NOT be a long lasting circle.........

Oh you are SO right with that luv. Thanks for posting.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Sis

What you said is true,...but Darrell stole THAT line from "Jimmy Swaggart"!

and Swaggart stole it from the Jesuit priest in "The Exorcist".

 

[Desdemona]

as She continually emphasized in Her talk, i would just like to add that the direction MUST meet the needs of BOTH parties, or it will NOT be a long lasting circle.........
--------------------------------------------------------

This concept resonates with me. If the needs of BOTH parties aren't met consistently, the relationship will fail. (Obviously, this isn't limited to power exchange relationships). I'm speaking of a pattern rather than isolated instances of a partner's needs not being met.

Inherent in giving control to a Dominant, is trust and an expectation that my needs will be met if possible. Of course, I am speaking of needs as opposed to wishes, wants, whims, etc. JMO

 

[boz]

So,...who is in control,...the Dom/me or the sub?
Please give other examples as you may wish, comments and examples are welcome by all.

Within the realm of the preagreed limitations and the limits drawn by physical/mental capabilites (as designated by safewords), within that realm, control belongs to the Dom/me.

When the preagreed limits or extremes of capabilites are breached, then control reverts to the sub.

If the sub does not execute the Dom/mes commands to the best of their abilities (withholds efforts), then it is up to the Dom/me to realize this and employ corrective measures.


Just my 2 cents (in Canadian; 1.2 US)

 

[luvsubbbbb]

This concept resonates with me. If the needs of BOTH parties aren't met consistently, the relationship will fail. (Obviously, this isn't limited to power exchange relationships). I'm speaking of a pattern rather than isolated instances of a partner's needs not being met.

Inherent in giving control to a Dominant, is trust and an expectation that my needs will be met if possible. Of course, I am speaking of needs as opposed to wishes, wants, whims, etc. JMO

i agree wholeheartedly with your words, Desdemona.....i was just trying to point out that the words uttered by many Dominants that:

"you are (just) a sub/slave...your obligation is to obey without question"

while that statement is true (without the word in parentheses which marginalizes the sub/slave), oftentimes a sub/slave is with the WRONG Dominant who relies too heavily on that phrase and denies the sub/slave his/her needs in their relationship....

that type of dynamic is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.....

 

[Desdemona]

luv, we are in complete agreement. please call me des.

 

[artful]

Des

Inherent in giving control to a Dominant, is trust and an expectation that my needs will be met if possible. Of course, I am speaking of needs as opposed to wishes, wants, whims, etc. JMO

I agree Des,...and you have made a valid point for us ALL to consider. We should be AWARE of the differences between NEEDS, wants, desires, whims, etc.! Thanks for posting.