Consent and mind control

[AgentDoiron]

I'm writing a story that involves mind control and I'm struggling with making the sex consensual. (Caveat: no judgement. If your kink is reading/writing non-consent stories I'm not judging).

So, the way I see it:
If the mind control makes them a slave, then we lose consent. If the mind control makes them drunk/stoned/unconscious, then we lose consent. If the mind control takes away conscious control of their body, we lose consent. If the mind control gives them child/animal level intelligence then we lose consent.
This makes it so that it's pretty hard to have mind control and sex without the sex becoming non-consensual.

What if?
The subject can end the mind control at any time? Does that give consent back? They are really horny and really want to please their master, but they have the ability to press the 'no' button and end the encounter. Does that fix it or is it just a fig leaf.

 

[lovecraft68]

Here's the issue

Mind control is 100% non consent. If anyone is drugged, under a spell, zapped with a mind control ray, hypnotized of anything else, it is non consent. If this wasn't true, slipping someone a roofie wouldn't be a crime, right?

Now the site feeds this by having it in its own category instead of being in NC where it belongs while also claiming they don't allow anything that's fully non consensual

But seeing that's the way it is, I wouldn't bother worrying about it being nonconsensual because no story in that category is anything but. So, if you're worried about violating something, don't. If you personally don't want it to be non con, then find another story to write, because its not possible.

I'm not judging the story or kink, or anyone's kink, other than pointing out that fans of that category like to deny they have a rape kink rather than just admit it and own it. Mind control isn't rape like punching someone in the face isn't assault.

 

[AgentDoiron]

I don't think mind control has to be "100% you are my slave". It can be more subtle than that. Like bondage, just because someone is tied up doesn't make them totally helpless.

I will give you that both 'mind control' and BDSM stories on this site have a non-consent issue. Most of the BDSM stories would result in criminal charges in real life.

 

[NotWise]

Just brainstorming. I haven't posted or even read in that category. Couldn't you have a mind control story where the master's requirement is something other than sex that creates conditions that lead to sex?

Simple example: the master requires his subject to accept a date, but the subject participates by free will and the date results in sex.

Might not tickle the readers' kink.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Hypnosis has limits to what it can make you do, if something is completely against what you'd be willing to do then you won't. But here's the thing, very few people in full control of their facilities would go up on a stage and move like a duck while barking like a dog. So even if you're doing a realistic hypnosis story they're still in a compromised mental state and just like the drunk or high person they don't have the mental capacity to consent.

 

[SimonDoom]

Why are you trying to "fix" it? Lovecraft is correct. Mind Control is inherently non-consensual. If you control someone's mind you take their consent away. That's the whole point of it. If it's consensual, then necessarily you do not have control of someone's mind.

If you are going to write a mind control story, then accept that it's nonconsensual, write it, and have fun. This isn't something worth worrying about.

To me, this is like asking, "How can I write an Anal story that doesn't involve the anus?"

 

[joy_of_cooking]

"How can I write an Anal story that doesn't involve the anus?"

Just gotta come at it from the other end.

 

[AgentDoiron]

Just gotta come at it from the other end.

Lol

 

[joy_of_cooking]

A more serious reply: I think of "non consensual/reluctant" and "mind control" as two kinds of non consent. NC/R is about non-consent where the victim fights it (typically not successfully) and MC is about non-consent where the victim goes along with it. I honestly think you could replace all of the mind control plot devices (rays, drugs, hypnosis) with poverty and have roughly the same stories.

 

[iwatchus]

I guess fights it is one way to put it. I think of MC as a case where the victim is not consciously aware of the control, where NC/R is where they are. As a reader, that is a huge difference to me.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

I think of MC as a case where the victim is not consciously aware of the control, where NC/R is where they are.

That's an interesting take and I see where you'd get that. I've read MC stories where the victim does know what's going on (e.g., vox dominus by mesmerciless has the neat twist of the victim actively seeking it out as an escape from her problems) but no categorization is perfect. Maybe we're just picking different examples to dismiss as outliers.

 

[Britva415]

I'm writing a story that involves mind control and I'm struggling with making the sex consensual. (Caveat: no judgement. If your kink is reading/writing non-consent stories I'm not judging).

So, the way I see it:
If the mind control makes them a slave, then we lose consent. If the mind control makes them drunk/stoned/unconscious, then we lose consent. If the mind control takes away conscious control of their body, we lose consent. If the mind control gives them child/animal level intelligence then we lose consent.
This makes it so that it's pretty hard to have mind control and sex without the sex becoming non-consensual.

What if?
The subject can end the mind control at any time? Does that give consent back? They are really horny and really want to please their master, but they have the ability to press the 'no' button and end the encounter. Does that fix it or is it just a fig leaf.

What is the reason you need it to be consensual?

Because, if it's about site rules, there's a work-around.

If it's not about site rules, what is the problem you're trying to solve here? You just don't want to write a NC story?

 

[AgentDoiron]

I want it to be consensual because the protagonist(s) will be on the receiving side and I don't want them to be victims when the mind control ends. There's a lot of trauma involved in being on the receiving end of an NC encounter. If I'm trying to be realistic in character portrayals then NC trauma will completely derail the story. I could make the MC permanent, so that there's no trauma, but that would be a different story then the one I'm trying to write.

 

[Bamagan]

I'm writing a story that involves mind control and I'm struggling with making the sex consensual. (Caveat: no judgement. If your kink is reading/writing non-consent stories I'm not judging).

So, the way I see it:
If the mind control makes them a slave, then we lose consent. If the mind control makes them drunk/stoned/unconscious, then we lose consent. If the mind control takes away conscious control of their body, we lose consent. If the mind control gives them child/animal level intelligence then we lose consent.
This makes it so that it's pretty hard to have mind control and sex without the sex becoming non-consensual.

What if?
The subject can end the mind control at any time? Does that give consent back? They are really horny and really want to please their master, but they have the ability to press the 'no' button and end the encounter. Does that fix it or is it just a fig leaf.

The main difference between MC and NC, as presented on this site anyway, is that MC typically has elements of sci-fi or fantasy that you don't usually find in NC, which is more often about blackmail, coercion, and/or violence (or threat of it). An MC story usually couldn't happen in real life, while an NC story can and does happen, probably more often than we like to believe. That being said, there are some stories in MC that don't necessarily overlap with NC.

I'd guess about 75% or so of the MC stories here are essentially revenge or power trip fantasies, where the main character (usually male) gains control over one to infinity women. Most of those are clear non-consent content. Things get more difficult to classify when there is no 'operator' responsible for whatever is being called mind control in a given story. This niche of MC tends to feature things like accidental self-hypnosis, magic curses, unintended side effects from technology or genie wishes, and so on. One or more characters have their libido, behavior, sexuality, or whatever altered, causing them to act in ways they ordinarily wouldn't, generally resulting in some kind of sexy times they otherwise would not have experienced. Sometimes they are regretful or embarrassed or horrified by their actions, sometimes they are exhilarated... just depends on what kind of story it is.

Your 'what if?' scenario sounds like it could conceivably fall into the realm of consensual non-consent, depending on how you present it. There are stories in MC here that feature similar shenanigans. Whether or not that 'fixes' the content is a question whose answers will probably be determined by how the other party feels about MC content generally. If they don't like it, nothing you do will redeem it for them, and if they're okay with it (as a story element), you don't need to worry about fig leaves in the first place. In the end, I'd advise either writing what you're comfortable with, or else letting the story take you wherever it leads, even if you have some doubts.

 

[NuclearFairy]

I want it to be consensual because the protagonist(s) will be on the receiving side and I don't want them to be victims when the mind control ends. There's a lot of trauma involved in being on the receiving end of an NC encounter. If I'm trying to be realistic in character portrayals then NC trauma will completely derail the story. I could make the MC permanent, so that there's no trauma, but that would be a different story then the one I'm trying to write.

Not everyone who does things they otherwise wouldn't while drunk or high is traumatized beyond the level of embarrassment afterwards. Which is the best analogy I have for you here. If you don't want them to be traumatized after then have them treat it like a drunken bender or something I guess. Or to consent to the mind control itself I guess.

Or ya know, you could not bother with realism on your first draft and just write the story as it comes. Then later figure out which aspects you want to make more realistic.

 

[Zeronix]

I think mind control stories can be pretty hot and fun. But when writing my own stories, I’ve usually found it more sexy to replace the mind control bit with genuine desire / chemistry. Eg isn’t it so much hotter to be receiving a BJ (or what have you) because your partner really likes you, rather than bc they were forced?

I think you can also do “mind control roleplay” which might keep a lot of the story the same while being consensual.

 

[SimonDoom]

I want it to be consensual because the protagonist(s) will be on the receiving side and I don't want them to be victims when the mind control ends. There's a lot of trauma involved in being on the receiving end of an NC encounter. If I'm trying to be realistic in character portrayals then NC trauma will completely derail the story. I could make the MC permanent, so that there's no trauma, but that would be a different story then the one I'm trying to write.

The site's rules require that even in the case of a nonconsent story, the victim must "enjoy" the nonconsensual encounter, at some point and in some way. So this factor does not distinguish Mind Control and Nonconsent stories.

Whether or not the victim enjoys the encounter, if the victim's ability to control his/her action is compromised, then it's still nonconsensual and still unethical. There's no way around that. That's an inevitable part of what people enjoy about these stories.

I think authors get themselves pointlessly "wrapped around the axle" when they tell themselves that they want to write a nonconsent or mind control story and they try to kid themselves that it's not "really" nonconsensual. Just accept that it is and write the story, guilt-free, and have fun. That's what these stories are about.

If your characters are play-acting, that's different. It is possible for people to consensually pretend that they are involved in a nonconsent situation. But then you're not really dealing with nonconsent or mind control.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Hypnosis may be an area, that softens the loss off control...
Hypnosis is used in therapy to open and unearth deeply sealed memories, or to delve into states of mind...
Lets assume a person is struggling with their sexuality...
Their shame and embarrassment is making it impossible for them to accept it...
Sometimes, those reasons can be dated back to a certain incident the patient has buried in their subconscious.
By opening it and rationalising it can help the patient understand why they struggle, and it may lead to them being able to accept it...
If the underlying story is, the (Victim) secretly has a strong desire to try a certain kink, but their feelings of shame don't allow it.

Then perhaps that is your avenue for softening the trauma... If it is a deeply seated fantasy / desire cobbled by societies inability to accept, then once they have dabbled in the fantasy, and found they did like it, then it loses the Non Consent issue
Why???
Because they requested it???

This is a real problem for some people... They spend their lives living in the closet afraid to come out because they are afraid of societies judgemental constraints...

PS: I do not agree with non consent... I am not trying to soften it. Unless the victim requested it.... It's still non consent...

This is only my opinion, and I know fuck all.

Cagivagurl

 

[Britva415]

What if?
The subject can end the mind control at any time? Does that give consent back? They are really horny and really want to please their master, but they have the ability to press the 'no' button and end the encounter. Does that fix it or is it just a fig leaf.

This sounds exactly like the D/s dynamic, the Master/slave dynamic, in BDSM.

Real-life adults serve these roles for each other in safe, sane and consensual ways while managing to genuinely live the experience of power exchange, domination and submission, mastery and slavery.

Do you know about "safe words?"

Have you read stories about "consensual non-consent" or "CNC?"

I don't know whether you're familiar with these things or not. But the direct answer to your question is, Yes, this fixes it, it's not just a fig leaf. A subject who has a way to halt the scenario and a partner who can be trusted to respect that expression of "stop now" is a couple who employ the real-life solution to when people want to play this way without crossing boundaries into real non-consent.

I see the mind-control aspect as not really being any different from bondage, where the person is physically unable to resist. Ask yourself - how can that be consensual? It can be, but how is that so?

Or from "subspace," where a submissive person becomes even more submissive than they were when they elected to enter the scene in the first place. It almost is a form of mind control: The sub trusted the dom to take them there. They could really, really be taken advantage of - even without physical restraints. If that happens, then it's abuse. If it doesn't happen, then it's because their dominant partner holds them there and maybe pushes them even further - safely and consensually.

 

[AgentDoiron]

This sounds exactly like the D/s dynamic, the Master/slave dynamic, in BDSM.

Real-life adults serve these roles for each other in safe, sane and consensual ways while managing to genuinely live the experience of Domination and submission, mastery and slavery.

Do you know about "safe words?"

Have you read stories about "consensual non-consent" or "CNC?"

I don't know whether you're familiar with these things or not. But the direct answer to your question is, Yes, this fixes it, it's not just a fig leaf. A subject who has a way to halt the scenario and a partner who can be trusted to respect that expression of "stop now" is a couple who employ the real-life solution to when people want to play this way without crossing boundaries into real non-consent.

So, yes, this is where my thinking is going. Thank you. Instead of the bondage being physical (ropes, gags, etc...) the bondage would be mental (hormones, emotions, etc...). There would be a safe word type trigger that the submissive could pull to get out. Of course, there's the relationship pressure not to use the safe word, but that's plot details.

 

[Djmac1031]

Awhile back I started a story about a character with the ability to manipulate emotions, erasing people's fears and doubts and pushing their desires and lusts to the fore.

I abandoned it after realizing that no amount of sugar coating it made it consensual.

Id also be willing to bet any story that somehow managed CONSENSUAL Mind Control would get destroyed in the ratings by irate incels who want rape in their rape stories

 

[TheArsonist]

Id also be willing to bet any story that somehow managed CONSENSUAL Mind Control would get destroyed in the ratings by irate incels who want rape in their rape stories

Nah. There already are consensual mind control stories, such as stories where people consent to being hypnotized for erotic purposes, with boundaries agreed on in advance. I never noticed them being targeted.

 

[Noks]

Isn’t fantasy about exploring things we wouldn’t condone in real life, but still find fascinating? Much of its appeal, especially in erotica, lies in its immorality, illegality, boundary-crossing, forbidden fruit, and all that.

The infidelity fan sneers at incest, while the incest fan clutches pearls over non-consent, each blind to their own camel’s hump.

If you’re into mind control, just own it. Twisting it into something it’s not won’t make it right, it’ll just make it less fun.

Anyone looking for ethics, morals, or legitimacy on a sex site is dealing with some serious self-denial.

 

[ChuckWolf]

I guess fights it is one way to put it. I think of MC as a case where the victim is not consciously aware of the control, where NC/R is where they are. As a reader, that is a huge difference to me.

For a lot of MC stories, I don't think that's necessarily true.

Also, I find MC stories where the victim is just a mindless zombie to be boring.

I have some MC stories I'm working on, where the victim is consciously aware of what's happening and is struggling to resist what they are being forced to do.

 

[alohadave]

I want it to be consensual because the protagonist(s) will be on the receiving side and I don't want them to be victims when the mind control ends. There's a lot of trauma involved in being on the receiving end of an NC encounter. If I'm trying to be realistic in character portrayals then NC trauma will completely derail the story. I could make the MC permanent, so that there's no trauma, but that would be a different story than the one I'm trying to write.

As others have said, MC is inherently NC. There is no real way to avoid it.

If you are looking to write something more literary and less porn genre, explore what the MC means and how it affects the people involved. Both the perpetrator and the victims. You have the opportunity to explore what the loss of control means to the characters.

Writing MC (and enjoying reading it) means that you accept that non-consensual events are the point.