Compelling Interest?

[Chobham]

What is the compelling interest with regard to Ukraine that makes the initiation of another world war? No one I know of disagrees on the wrongness of Russia’s blatant and ruthless aggression. Nor is there any particular disagreement regarding supporting Ukraine’s efforts to defend their territory. But exactly how far should we go and why? Our political leaders need to make a case for the risks they’re subjecting us to.

In today’s world secrets don’t last very long. There’s always someone, somewhere that will talk to someone else or just come out and make something public.

Over the past week we’ve been made aware of exactly who was behind the bombing of the Nordstrom Pipeline and the US torpedoing the efforts to reach a negotiated end to the conflict early on. And if those acts weren’t bad enough on their own we are witnessing an incremental escalation of the war. Whereas the Ukrainian’s were first given purely defensive weapons we are now furnishing weapons that are arguably offensive in nature. Needlessly to say the Russians are going to respond accordingly.

Along about May the Russians are going to make a big push. Will the Ukrainian’s be ready for that? And if not what are we going to do? And if they are what is Putin going to so? We can’t answer those questions; no plan survives the first contact with the enemy. No matter which way that pendulum swings the side that’s on the short end of the stick is going to do something.

If our political leadership is going to march us to the brink of nuclear holocaust then they need to step up and tell the American people exactly why, in plain works, Ukraine is of such compelling interest that we have to take the risk.

 

[jaF0]

How many Rubles were you paid for that post?

 

[Recooter]

How many Rubles were you paid for that post?

Agreed!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

If our political leadership is going to march us to the brink of nuclear holocaust then they need to step up and tell the American people exactly why, in plain works, Ukraine is of such compelling interest that we have to take the risk.

You pontificate on worldly affairs all the time, basing what ever claim you chose with an air of supposed knowledge. Yet here you plead ignorance of the reasons why the free loving democracies ( America included) of the world should support Ukraine??

Seriously are you on fucking glue!!!

 

[ll74]

Both of those stories are rumors regarding US involvement beyond supplying equipment.

We've been a part of crippling the second largest military in the world. One that was consistently aligned against our interests. All without a single US casualty.

I have no issue supporting Ukraine as far as they want to take this.

 

[KeithD]

Most of the negatives, including the lack of justification and on-the-street resolve, are on the Russian side and their military resupply is exhaustive compared to the West. I trust holding the course is going to have them backing off and under new leadership. Looking at the gameboard doesn't support appeasement, so I don't. As another has noted, there are multiple levels to this--Ukraine itself, Europe, and the United States. Serving the U.S. interests are the strongest argument for the United States to hang tough. There's always the nuclear threat--but that's a suicidal act with an extremely high bluff quotient.

 

[PaxNurgle]

I think, most Western governments realize that Ukraine will, inevitably, lose the war eventually. Bottom line is, they are simply out-manned and out-gunned. The aim is not so much to risk nuclear annihilation over a country most Americans probably couldn't identify on a map. Rather, it is to tie down the Russian army, and by extension, their economy, to such a degree that they don't pose an additional threat to conquering the rest of Europe. Prop up Ukraine, and fight them IN Ukraine, so as to avoid having to fight them in Germany and Finland. At least, that is the theory. I don't think (or at least I HOPE) that Biden will push Russia to the brink of nuclear catastrope as some have implied.

 

[Lazaran]

I think, most Western governments realize that Ukraine will, inevitably, lose the war eventually. Bottom line is, they are simply out-manned and out-gunned. The aim is not so much to risk nuclear annihilation over a country most Americans probably couldn't identify on a map. Rather, it is to tie down the Russian army, and by extension, their economy, to such a degree that they don't pose an additional threat to conquering the rest of Europe. Prop up Ukraine, and fight them IN Ukraine, so as to avoid having to fight them in Germany and Finland. At least, that is the theory. I don't think (or at least I HOPE) that Biden will push Russia to the brink of nuclear catastrope as some have implied.

So the Russian propaganda and nuclear fear mongering is working on you.

Noted.

Maybe if we’re headed toward a future where the arc of justice bends completely towards rewarding corruption and aggression, then a nuclear reset is in order.

I know I would rather be dead than cave to the likes of Putin and his orange puppet.

Opinions vary.

 

[KeithD]

I think, most Western governments realize that Ukraine will, inevitably, lose the war eventually.

I think most Western nations think it will be no worse than a stalemate--Russia holding some of what they've taken and calling that enough of a victory for now (except that they've depleted themselves so much that it will be a long, long while). I think they see an increased chance of a regime change for the better (or, at least, weaker militarily). And a stalemate, significantly weakened military capability, and encouraging a restless internal Russia situation is, in fact, a victory for the West.

 

[Bray123]

I think, most Western governments realize that Ukraine will, inevitably, lose the war eventually. Bottom line is, they are simply out-manned and out-gunned. The aim is not so much to risk nuclear annihilation over a country most Americans probably couldn't identify on a map. Rather, it is to tie down the Russian army, and by extension, their economy, to such a degree that they don't pose an additional threat to conquering the rest of Europe. Prop up Ukraine, and fight them IN Ukraine, so as to avoid having to fight them in Germany and Finland. At least, that is the theory. I don't think (or at least I HOPE) that Biden will push Russia to the brink of nuclear catastrope as some have implied.

Finland won the war the last time they were invaded by Russia.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

I'm not all in on this latest bombing theory because the source author has always valued sensationalism a tad bit more than accuracy. I think Occam would agree with me.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

Without regime change and more direct Western involvement, Russian encroachments will not cease, they are too beneficial to the authoritarian ruling class and are a source of pride to a people who got used to the broad expanse and power of the former Soviet Union and with its fall, paranoia about the intentions of the West, especially the United States; enough so that they would seek a long-term Sino-Russo alliance. That alliance is, by its very nature, more of a precursor to world war, physical, not ideological, which we are already involved in, than what goes on in Ukraine right now which is nothing more than securing a strategic military chokehold in order to further the ideological conflict's push towards an eventual physical war.

 

[jaF0]

I have a compelling interest in this VinnyVerducci fuck's history here .... AJ/Spearcatcher maybe? WillNumbers? PeckerSniffer?

 

[VinnyVeritas]

You need to turn your compelling interest into a life.

 

[Chobham]

Both of those stories are rumors regarding US involvement beyond supplying equipment.

We've been a part of crippling the second largest military in the world. One that was consistently aligned against our interests. All without a single US casualty.

I have no issue supporting Ukraine as far as they want to take this.

Those "rumor's" have been circulating for quite some time now.

Russia was more like 3rd or 4th militarily. And now we find out that they are virtually incapable of fighting a modern war of maneuver.

How far we go with this shouldn't be up to the Ukrainians and our leadership still has to make a case to the people.

 

[ll74]

Those "rumor's" have been circulating for quite some time now.

Russia was more like 3rd or 4th militarily. And now we find out that they are virtually incapable of fighting a modern war of maneuver.

How far we go with this shouldn't be up to the Ukrainians and our leadership still has to make a case to the people.

So is the pizza parlor abortion clinic....what's your point?

Longevity and persistence aren't what makes something true

 

[Chobham]

I think, most Western governments realize that Ukraine will, inevitably, lose the war eventually. Bottom line is, they are simply out-manned and out-gunned. The aim is not so much to risk nuclear annihilation over a country most Americans probably couldn't identify on a map. Rather, it is to tie down the Russian army, and by extension, their economy, to such a degree that they don't pose an additional threat to conquering the rest of Europe. Prop up Ukraine, and fight them IN Ukraine, so as to avoid having to fight them in Germany and Finland. At least, that is the theory. I don't think (or at least I HOPE) that Biden will push Russia to the brink of nuclear catastrope as some have implied.

I know what the goal WAS. And you are entirely correct, the Russians seem to be planning on surging as many as 500K troops late in the Spring. Poorly trained, poorly equipped, and poorly led troops. A prescription for a blood bath. But as Stalin observed, "quantity has a quality of its own."

 

[VinnyVeritas]

The Russian battle plan through several major conflicts with varying degrees of success and failure: throw more bodies into the breach. We should never have helped them in WWII. It would have been better to let Hitler simply overextend himself and have his regime collapse from within.

 

[Chobham]

The Russian battle plan through several major conflicts with varying degrees of success and failure: throw more bodies into the breach. We should never have helped them in WWII. It would have been better to let Hitler simply overextend himself and have his regime collapse from within.

That's one alternative history.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

It's as valid as the alternative reality that a lot of people here labor under.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I have a compelling interest in this VinnyVerducci fuck's history here .... AJ/Spearcatcher maybe? WillNumbers? PeckerSniffer?

Yes it's AJ, no doubt of that...not will or peckersniff

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You need to turn your compelling interest into a life.

LOL you should do so first,you whiny little fuck......

 

[icanhelp1]

What is the compelling interest with regard to Ukraine that makes the initiation of another world war? No one I know of disagrees on the wrongness of Russia’s blatant and ruthless aggression. Nor is there any particular disagreement regarding supporting Ukraine’s efforts to defend their territory. But exactly how far should we go and why? Our political leaders need to make a case for the risks they’re subjecting us to.

In today’s world secrets don’t last very long. There’s always someone, somewhere that will talk to someone else or just come out and make something public.

Over the past week we’ve been made aware of exactly who was behind the bombing of the Nordstrom Pipeline and the US torpedoing the efforts to reach a negotiated end to the conflict early on. And if those acts weren’t bad enough on their own we are witnessing an incremental escalation of the war. Whereas the Ukrainian’s were first given purely defensive weapons we are now furnishing weapons that are arguably offensive in nature. Needlessly to say the Russians are going to respond accordingly.

Along about May the Russians are going to make a big push. Will the Ukrainian’s be ready for that? And if not what are we going to do? And if they are what is Putin going to so? We can’t answer those questions; no plan survives the first contact with the enemy. No matter which way that pendulum swings the side that’s on the short end of the stick is going to do something.

If our political leadership is going to march us to the brink of nuclear holocaust then they need to step up and tell the American people exactly why, in plain works, Ukraine is of such compelling interest that we have to take the risk.

I’ve posted a very similar opinion in another thread. Need to bring this conflict to an end, sooner than later. I mentioned mission creep and was lambasted by lit posters. Open ended support is going to totally destroy Ukraine. Either force Zelensky to engage or accept some rational compromise with Russia and if Russia refuses and insist on systematic destruction of Ukraine then we in the West need to bring it to a head or walk away. Being 31 trillio in debt we just can’t continue to spend like drunken sailors. It might be time to put all the cards on the table and deliver an ultimatum to Putin, GET THE FUCK OUT! I’m sure Putin understands we could sink his entire navy in a matter of days. Purely speculative but I don’t think Putin has all that much confidence in his nuclear ICBMs, IMHO need to give a way out and bring this conflict to an end.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

There can be no more rational compromise with Dear Leader Putin than we made with Dear Leader Hitler.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I’ve posted a very similar opinion in another thread. Need to bring this conflict to an end, sooner than later. I mentioned mission creep and was lambasted by lit posters. Open ended support is going to totally destroy Ukraine. Either force Zelensky to engage or accept some rational compromise with Russia and if Russia refuses and insist on systematic destruction of Ukraine then we in the West need to bring it to a head or walk away. Being 31 trillio in debt we just can’t continue to spend like drunken sailors.

Those who fail to learn history, are doomed to repeat it...

Peace in our time...

We're broke and we can't afford it.....

Tax cuts are great....