Comment invited.

[Handley_Page]

This caused a few odd comments in a UK website:-

http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/

Perhaps some of the ladies might care to make a reasoned comment.
Some reaction to it from the blokes would also be welcome.

To my mind she paints with too wide a brush.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

What isn't rape according to that list?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I wouldn't call it "rape support" but I have encountered everything on her list from some man or another, to a larger or lesser degree. I'm not as horrified by these attitudes as she is, and some (very few) of them I don't consider bad ideas at all.

But please-- when you read someone who calls themselves a "radical" anything, expect radical notions. Take away from them what seems useful to you, but don't get all upset and fester-y about it. There will always be outliers to the rest of us who are more moderate.

 

[Boxlicker101]

This caused a few odd comments in a UK website:-

http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/

Perhaps some of the ladies might care to make a reasoned comment.
Some reaction to it from the blokes would also be welcome.

To my mind she paints with too wide a brush.

She doesn't even use a brush; she just dumps the paint on by the gallon. I seriously doubt there is one heterosexual post-pubescent male who doesn't fit at least some of those characteristics. And, I include members of the clergy and religious fanatics among that mass of men. Even most gay men could be included. ETA: Most women would fit on that list too.

 

[Stella_Omega]

She doesn't even use a brush; she just dumps the paint on by the gallon. I seriously doubt there is one heterosexual post-pubescent male who doesn't fit at least some of those characteristics. And, I include members of the clergy and religious fanatics among that mass of men. Even most gay men could be included.

Yes, Box, that's right. That's partly her point, that almost all men have been raised with these attitudes.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Yes, Box, that's right. That's partly her point, that almost all men have been raised with these attitudes.

Women have too. Did you enjoy watching the movie The Seven Year Itch? In this film, Marilyn Monroe is portrayed as a sex object.

 

[sr71plt]

Women have too. Did you enjoy watching the movie The Seven Year Itch? In this film, Marilyn Monroe is portrayed as a sex object.

So, your argument is that "The Seven Year Itch" was produced by women to reflect women's attitudes? And/or that anyone who watched it and enjoyed it automatically has all of the attitudes it protrays?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Women have too. Did you enjoy watching the movie The Seven Year Itch? In this film, Marilyn Monroe is portrayed as a sex object.

Actually, Box, that movie's basic premise made me feel pretty uncomfortable all the way through. Yes, Marilyn was a beauty. And many of the lines were funny. I didn't like it so much on the whole.

 

[lovecraft68]

Actually, Box, that movie's basic premise made me feel pretty uncomfortable all the way through. Yes, Marilyn was a beauty. And many of the lines were funny. I didn't like it so much on the whole.

That's because you are another monogamous prude like myself.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Women have too. Did you enjoy watching the movie The Seven Year Itch? In this film, Marilyn Monroe is portrayed as a sex object.

So, your argument is that "The Seven Year Itch" was produced by women to reflect women's attitudes? And/or that anyone who watched it and enjoyed it automatically has all of the attitudes it protrays?

Of course not. This was one of the characteristics listed: ■He expresses enjoyment of movies/musicals/TV shows/plays in which women are sexually demeaned or presented as sexual objects Therefore, if you enjoyed the movie, or one of thousands of similar ones, the person linked considers you a supporter of rape.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think it is a secret here how I feel about rape, but this list really is a bit extreme. Maybe half of the points have some validity and even them just some.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Of course not. This was one of the characteristics listed: ■He expresses enjoyment of movies/musicals/TV shows/plays in which women are sexually demeaned or presented as sexual objects Therefore, if you enjoyed the movie, or one of thousands of similar ones, the person linked considers you a supporter of rape.

I don't think it is a secret here how I feel about rape, but this list really is a bit extreme. Maybe half of the points have some validity and even them just some.

Think of it this way: If we own stock, even a little bit, we support capitalism-- even if its only a little bit, and even if we hate the bulk of capitalist ideology.

If we buy goods that are made with child labor overseas, we support child labor-- even if we don't approve of it, and even if we didn't know we were buying goods made that way. The money goes to people who utilise child labor-- we have, effectively, supported the practice.

Does that help?

It's extremely worthwhile to read the comments in that blog post. If you really want to understand what she's saying, and why, and why the original post was merely a list-- read the comments.

 

[SydneyBlake]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean....well, in her case, maybe it does

She doesn't even use a brush; she just dumps the paint on by the gallon. I seriously doubt there is one heterosexual post-pubescent male who doesn't fit at least some of those characteristics. And, I include members of the clergy and religious fanatics among that mass of men. Even most gay men could be included. ETA: Most women would fit on that list too.

Reading this is like trying to read the ramblings of a lunatic. This lady needs to cut her subscription. She has too many issues.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

Sigh . . . I really shouldn't post this

Eh, changed my mind.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

By her standards it would appear that all societies treat women as sex objects. Some women don't find this objectionable, others definitely do. But a certain percentage of women at times treat men (or other males!) as sex objects and I doubt that any of us mind. I certainly don't but what would a bear know? The question arises . . . since we can pretty much bet serious money that every human society that has ever existed has done so, what would the alternative look like?

 

[Stella_Omega]

...what would the alternative look like?

That's a very interesting question. I'd love to live in a society where people know the difference between the object(s) of their own desire, and the objects that seem similar but aren't.

It might look a bit like lesbian society

-- or, at least as lesbian societies exist right now. There's no sense of overriding power in any particular group's hands, yanno?

For instance, I objectify a whole lot of people, more female at this time than male. But I do NOT expect the absolute unquestioned right to think about every one of my desired people as if they are actually mine. And I do not think that my desire is a need. I don't lay responsibility for my gratification on stranger's shoulders just because they are my preferred sex and gender.

 

[3113]

But a certain percentage of women at times treat men...as sex objects

[raising hand and furiously waving]Oh, me, me, me! http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/wave.gif I treat men like sex objects. And I'm always looking for new volunteers

 

[lovecraft68]

[raising hand and furiously waving]Oh, me, me, me! http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/wave.gif I treat men like sex objects. And I'm always looking for new volunteers

You can objectify me anytime. Normally it offends me but for you I would be a giver and take one for the team!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

That's a very interesting question. I'd love to live in a society where people know the difference between the object(s) of their own desire, and the objects that seem similar but aren't.

It might look a bit like lesbian society

-- or, at least as lesbian societies exist right now. There's no sense of overriding power in any particular group's hands, yanno?

For instance, I objectify a whole lot of people, more female at this time than male. But I do NOT expect the absolute unquestioned right to think about every one of my desired people as if they are actually mine. And I do not think that my desire is a need. I don't lay responsibility for my gratification on stranger's shoulders just because they are my preferred sex and gender.

I would just call that a mature, responsible attitude. It's gender non-specified, IMO. It's an attitude that realizes that 'no' means 'no' and accepts 'no thank-you' as a perfectly acceptable and non-threatening response. It probably helps if one has grown up past the hormonally challenged age . . .

 

[voluptuary_manque]

[raising hand and furiously waving]Oh, me, me, me! http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/wave.gif I treat men like sex objects. And I'm always looking for new volunteers

Just men? Aw fudge!

 

[Stella_Omega]

I would just call that a mature, responsible attitude. It's gender non-specified, IMO. It's an attitude that realizes that 'no' means 'no' and accepts 'no thank-you' as a perfectly acceptable and non-threatening response. It probably helps if one has grown up past the hormonally challenged age . . .

Mmm... What I am talking about happens a long way down the road-- before the yes/no question even comes onto the horizon...

 

[YoursSINSerely]

Not worth my time....The word HATE turned me right off. Sorry.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not worth my time....The word HATE turned me right off. Sorry.

where did you read the word "HATE?"

 

[YoursSINSerely]

where did you read the word "HATE?"

The YouTube said it was HATE week.

 

[oggbashan]

My view: The article overstated the case to get a reaction.

The exaggeration for effect can alienate people who might otherwise think about their own attitudes. Unfortunately that damages the argument and trivialises what should be genuine and legitimate concerns.