Commanding vs Inspiring

[Ms_Lilith]

I was having a discussion today with a friend of mine who, while she has a submissive streak in her personality, rebels against the idea of being commanded to be submissive.

Now, by "command", I don't mean "commands or orders within a defined D/s, M/s relationship". I mean the "I think I'm a Dom/me, and therefore, you must call me Sir/Mistress, even though we're just joking around/just met online/aren't involved".

Maybe that doesn't make sense.

ANyway. She and I came to the conclusion that anyone who tries.. really really TRIES to make either she or I submit, through their language, actions, body language, behaviour, etc, is a real turn-off... and that we'll both rebel against those types of Dom/mes. It's that lack of self-control, that makes those particular Dom/mes try too hard to assert their dominance, I feel.

A good Dom/me to me, is someone who doesn't HAVE to command. They simply inspire my submissive side. Just by knowing them, I want to please them. Just by being around them, I am inspired to serve. It's not an effort for either party, to fall into that sort of comfort.. it's simply a kinship that is felt.


Maybe that doesn't make sense. I don't know. Just some thoughts I had.

 

[Rrrosyn]

I was having a discussion today with a friend of mine who, while she has a submissive streak in her personality, rebels against the idea of being commanded to be submissive.

Now, by "command", I don't mean "commands or orders within a defined D/s, M/s relationship". I mean the "I think I'm a Dom/me, and therefore, you must call me Sir/Mistress, even though we're just joking around/just met online/aren't involved".

Maybe that doesn't make sense.

ANyway. She and I came to the conclusion that anyone who tries.. really really TRIES to make either she or I submit, through their language, actions, body language, behaviour, etc, is a real turn-off... and that we'll both rebel against those types of Dom/mes. It's that lack of self-control, that makes those particular Dom/mes try too hard to assert their dominance, I feel.

A good Dom/me to me, is someone who doesn't HAVE to command. They simply inspire my submissive side. Just by knowing them, I want to please them. Just by being around them, I am inspired to serve. It's not an effort for either party, to fall into that sort of comfort.. it's simply a kinship that is felt.


Maybe that doesn't make sense. I don't know. Just some thoughts I had.

Made perfect sense to me. Thank you for sharing such thoughts so clearly. I hope both you and your friend are able to find people whose presence inspires you to be your most submissive.

I will pull the occasional "because I said so and it pleases me" when questioned. Or sometimes his "Yes Dear" sound very much like "Yes Mistress" but I still form most orders in the form of a question.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

My SO and I live in a 24/7 D/s relationship. We're by no means hard-core, and our play is Switch, but outside the bedroom, I am His sub.

I also, with my SO's permission and knowledge, have a Daddy.. to provide for other aspects of my kink side, that he is not comfortable indulging.

*smile*

I'm very fortunate. Both men inspire me to no end.

 

[Rrrosyn]

That is very fortunate indeed! Congradulations!

 

[h_i_s]

It's the way that many times He has asked me to please do <insert random act of servitude> ....... that makes me WANT to submit even when at times He asks rather than demand. Many times the respectful request is made known to me with just a look, or sometimes without a word and even without the look.

It's the polite 'requests' that inspire me in being capable of submitting even when all pleasantries and manners are put aside. It's that type of Domly respect, and control, that makes me WANT to obey and please Him even during those times when He grabs me by the hair at the nape of the neck while urging me to my knees while telling me 'not so politely', "Show me what your mouth was made for slut.".

i can relate .. yes.

 

[Rrrosyn]

It's the way that many times He has asked me to please do <insert random act of servitude> ....... that makes me WANT to submit even when at times He asks rather than demand. Many times the respectful request is made known to me with just a look, or sometimes without a word and even without the look.

It's the polite 'requests' that inspire me in being capable of submitting even when all pleasantries and manners are put aside. It's that type of Domly respect, and control, that makes me WANT to obey and please Him even during those times when He grabs me by the hair at the nape of the neck while urging me to my knees while telling me 'not so politely', "Show me what your mouth was made for slut.".

i can relate .. yes.

*nods* I was raised in a family that made orders in a similar fashion. "Would you please pick up your toys?" or "Would you mind making the bed?" were not a requests, and we learned young that being polite was just the adult's way of respecting us as people. We still didn't get to say, "No," and leave our chores unfinished. But often by being respected in the household, we didn't feel a need to rebel.

I have definately brought this into my relationship with j. It has it's problems. Mid-scene saying, "Would you like to get the heating oils?" and getting "If you want me to," as a reply has been a real speed bump. "I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want you to!"

 

[Netzach]

That's been the only kind of behavior that's elicited anything like a submissive response in me. I can be a pleaser, but only when it's clear that I'm respected, and only when that person has some knowledge or insight to offer me that I don't feel I can easily get on my own.

They have to be smarter, faster, and better at life than I am, and so much so that I'm willing to acknowledge that.

Rare. Not that I think *so* highly of myself, but it's incredibly rare. I've only found it with a handful of people often in a completely non-sexual context.

 

[h_i_s]

*nods* I was raised in a family that made orders in a similar fashion. "Would you please pick up your toys?" or "Would you mind making the bed?" were not a requests, and we learned young that being polite was just the adult's way of respecting us as people. We still didn't get to say, "No," and leave our chores unfinished. But often by being respected in the household, we didn't feel a need to rebel.

I have definately brought this into my relationship with j. It has it's problems. Mid-scene saying, "Would you like to get the heating oils?" and getting "If you want me to," as a reply has been a real speed bump. "I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want you to!"

i've been guilty of the same thing a couple of times myself. It's a tough call for me as far as how i answer sometimes. For example, if my Master asks me whether or not i would like to get the lotion so that i may massage His legs .... it's a confusing question to answer sometimes. If i am tired and would rather rest, i'm thinking that by saying 'Yes, Master.' .... well, i'd be telling a lie in claiming that i WANT to massage His legs when it's really not what i want to do. If i say, Master i'd rather not, i'm tired .. well, He'll say .... "But you will anyway, right?". Of course then i am answering, "Yes, Master". Funny thing is, i should save myself the time and wasted breath ... it will always end up as my saying "Yes, Master." either way. LOL.

i guess the difference for me is that by saying "i'd rather not, i'm tired." , is that i feel that i'm not telling a lie. BUT ... t all comes down to keeping in the mind set of remembering that it is not about what i want, & that the agreement when i became His was involved my role in pleasing Him, and obeying Him. Sometimes the hardest part in submitting is having to do so even when i don't WANT to.

 

[graceanne]

Actually I grew up in a household where I was never asked to do anything, nor did my mother say thank you when I'd done what I was told to do. Me and K are very against this. We also will say 'Will you . . .'. Occasionally a child will say no, and I'll say "I know that sounded like a request, but it wasn't. Do it now." Then we always say thank you afterward. And if we don't, the kids remind me.

It's the same with us. I get pissed if he's rude. If he just tells me to do something it's a good way to make me mad. It may be a command, but as far as I'm concerned he can show some respect. A please will not kill him, and it doesn't make me doubt his domination. I know an order when I hear one. Beyond that, the children will not treat me with respect if he doesn't.

 

[Rrrosyn]

i've been guilty of the same thing a couple of times myself. It's a tough call for me as far as how i answer sometimes. For example, if my Master asks me whether or not i would like to get the lotion so that i may massage His legs .... it's a confusing question to answer sometimes. If i am tired and would rather rest, i'm thinking that by saying 'Yes, Master.' .... well, i'd be telling a lie in claiming that i WANT to massage His legs when it's really not what i want to do. If i say, Master i'd rather not, i'm tired .. well, He'll say .... "But you will anyway, right?". Of course then i am answering, "Yes, Master". Funny thing is, i should save myself the time and wasted breath ... it will always end up as my saying "Yes, Master." either way. LOL.

i guess the difference for me is that by saying "i'd rather not, i'm tired." , is that i feel that i'm not telling a lie. BUT ... t all comes down to keeping in the mind set of remembering that it is not about what i want, & that the agreement when i became His was involved my role in pleasing Him, and obeying Him. Sometimes the hardest part in submitting is having to do so even when i don't WANT to.

Maybe the answer would be how you feel. Still doing it, but admitting fatigue might make the rub a bit shorter for you. j rubs my feet nightly. Sometimes if he's had a really hard days he sits in front of my and gets a shoulder rub, while having my legs wrapped around him, with a foot in his lap for him to rub. I still get my foot rub no matter what.

 

[Rrrosyn]

Actually I grew up in a household where I was never asked to do anything, nor did my mother say thank you when I'd done what I was told to do. Me and K are very against this. We also will say 'Will you . . .'. Occasionally a child will say no, and I'll say "I know that sounded like a request, but it wasn't. Do it now." Then we always say thank you afterward. And if we don't, the kids remind me.

It's the same with us. I get pissed if he's rude. If he just tells me to do something it's a good way to make me mad. It may be a command, but as far as I'm concerned he can show some respect. A please will not kill him, and it doesn't make me doubt his domination. I know an order when I hear one. Beyond that, the children will not treat me with respect if he doesn't.

Right on graceanne! I can't handle the disrespect I see in other branches of my family. In this household "please" and "thank you" are a must. Even if the words don't make it into every request the tone must hold respect. (Thank you outnumbers please, because of this.)

 

[graceanne]

Right on graceanne! I can't handle the disrespect I see in other branches of my family. In this household "please" and "thank you" are a must. Even if the words don't make it into every request the tone must hold respect. (Thank you outnumbers please, because of this.)

I agree. I actualy don't care if it the actual words please are there. A 'Would you . . .' works to. It's the attitude behind the 'request' that I pay attention to.

 

[FurryFury]

Heh!

Makes sense to me too. I have some people who just because I might be intensely interested and intrigued by being submissive, assume they should order me around and I should comply.

Riiiight.

First of all, the depth of my desire for submission is still in question by me! Second I don't even know you yet. Who are you again? You know?

LOL!

If I did want to be submissive it would be because I knew and trusted you. Don't come talking at me like that when we don't even know each other.

Same thing for those who want to be submissive and think that because I am be interested in dominance I will take them in hand so to speak. Okay and who are you again?

I mean I sincerely want everyone to be happy and find the right person to fit with. I love to help folks out but it's all about the relationship and respect on both sides. If there isn't one there, don't push so hard. Take the time to get to know the other person before you order, beg or conjole!

Now some of the very things either of those two types want, I will respond very favorably with my husband and/or one or two others I actually have created a relationship online with, otherwise, uh huh back the heck off, that is how I feel.

Those rare ones who actually do inspire? Ahhhh! That is a wonderful thing there. I just love to bask in their auras.

So I agree with you Ms. Lilith!

Fury

 

[cremebrulee]

Speaking for Myself...

I was having a discussion today with a friend of mine who, while she has a submissive streak in her personality, rebels against the idea of being commanded to be submissive.

Now, by "command", I don't mean "commands or orders within a defined D/s, M/s relationship". I mean the "I think I'm a Dom/me, and therefore, you must call me Sir/Mistress, even though we're just joking around/just met online/aren't involved".

Maybe that doesn't make sense.

ANyway. She and I came to the conclusion that anyone who tries.. really really TRIES to make either she or I submit, through their language, actions, body language, behaviour, etc, is a real turn-off... and that we'll both rebel against those types of Dom/mes. It's that lack of self-control, that makes those particular Dom/mes try too hard to assert their dominance, I feel.

A good Dom/me to me, is someone who doesn't HAVE to command. They simply inspire my submissive side. Just by knowing them, I want to please them. Just by being around them, I am inspired to serve. It's not an effort for either party, to fall into that sort of comfort.. it's simply a kinship that is felt.


Maybe that doesn't make sense. I don't know. Just some thoughts I had.

There is something here that I feel like addressing... when I flirt with or am just getting to know a sub, I hint at the relationship between Domme and sub more than even try commanding. I think it's rude and immature to meet someone and immediately assume that they should respond in an excessively submissive manner simply because they are submissive by nature. The respect has to start first, as does the open line of communication. I would much rather talk and get to know someone just as in any other relationship, before I start simply assuming they will respond to my whims and requests and desires. The trust is the first thing to be built, then gently into the roles... perhaps I am not typical of many Dommes, but I like the titillating and the romance, but expect obedience once the relationship progresses. It should not have to be forced. I would much rather build up to a place where the response is naturally submissive and obedient.

It's late, hope that makes sense


LOL


~Creme

 

[cremebrulee]

Ps

I do however, love the idea of my attitude and presence being enough to get my sub to serve me.

Sure as hell didn't wanna leave THAT out! LOL


Creme

 

[Vixandra]

Being able to inspire submission, a lofty goal.

Still- there are some subs who automatically place any top on a pedistal.
I hate being called Mistress by someone who's PM/IM'ing me for the first time. I'm not their Mistress, and dislike being called such.


Interesting topic, Ms Lilith.

 

[His_pita]

A good Dom/me to me, is someone who doesn't HAVE to command. They simply inspire my submissive side. Just by knowing them, I want to please them. Just by being around them, I am inspired to serve. It's not an effort for either party, to fall into that sort of comfort.. it's simply a kinship that is felt.

Yes I agree with this and that is why I love my Dom so much and want to do everything in my power to be the best submissive I can be for him.

 

[Netzach]

There is something here that I feel like addressing... when I flirt with or am just getting to know a sub, I hint at the relationship between Domme and sub more than even try commanding. I think it's rude and immature to meet someone and immediately assume that they should respond in an excessively submissive manner simply because they are submissive by nature. The respect has to start first, as does the open line of communication. I would much rather talk and get to know someone just as in any other relationship, before I start simply assuming they will respond to my whims and requests and desires. The trust is the first thing to be built, then gently into the roles... perhaps I am not typical of many Dommes, but I like the titillating and the romance, but expect obedience once the relationship progresses. It should not have to be forced. I would much rather build up to a place where the response is naturally submissive and obedient.

It's late, hope that makes sense


LOL


~Creme

Not only does it make sense, I think it's far sexier and more fun, to see it all unfold.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

There is something here that I feel like addressing... when I flirt with or am just getting to know a sub, I hint at the relationship between Domme and sub more than even try commanding. I think it's rude and immature to meet someone and immediately assume that they should respond in an excessively submissive manner simply because they are submissive by nature. The respect has to start first, as does the open line of communication. I would much rather talk and get to know someone just as in any other relationship, before I start simply assuming they will respond to my whims and requests and desires. The trust is the first thing to be built, then gently into the roles... perhaps I am not typical of many Dommes, but I like the titillating and the romance, but expect obedience once the relationship progresses. It should not have to be forced. I would much rather build up to a place where the response is naturally submissive and obedient.

It's late, hope that makes sense


LOL


~Creme

Creme,

Yes, this is what I was getting at (but failed to articulate). My submissive side will recognize a Dom/me very quickly. But I will not aim to please that person until I know they are worth my effort, my time, my care... I must get to know the person first. I watched, and learned Daddy a good bit before we ever made contact.. I knew he was a good man, a patient man.. I knew he was kind and intelligent and controlled.. a quiet sexy confidence.. I didn't simply recognize his Dominance, and put myself at his feet. It was in talking to him, in learning him through time spent together, that I allowed myself to slip to the floor, and to look up at him.



The flip can be said about my Dominant side. A lot of men, particularly, PM me, or approach me in RL, recognizing that I have a Dominant streak. Most do so in an "immediate-submissive-I'll-call-you-Mistress" mode. That is SUCH a turn-off. I can't stand it. I don't like being called Mistress, or Lady, or whatever, by someone I have not chosen to be involved with. By calling me that, they are assuming a level of intimacy I've not granted. Like my submissive side, my Dominant side has to be inspired to Domme. It's through learning the person, learning the sub, that my Top side will be inspired to take that control, and accept that gift. Without that inspiration, it just doesn't work.

 

[FurryFury]

You guys say it so much better than I could. I agree with you all!

Fury

 

[Rrrosyn]

Being able to inspire submission, a lofty goal.

Still- there are some subs who automatically place any top on a pedistal.
I hate being called Mistress by someone who's PM/IM'ing me for the first time. I'm not their Mistress, and dislike being called such.


Interesting topic, Ms Lilith.

I can't stand being called Mistress by anyone. Not even j. I like an online sub who shows respect with a Ma'am or something. j uses m'Lady and tone of voice when he says Dear.

 

[nusubgurl]

IA good Dom/me to me, is someone who doesn't HAVE to command. They simply inspire my submissive side. Just by knowing them, I want to please them. Just by being around them, I am inspired to serve. It's not an effort for either party, to fall into that sort of comfort.. it's simply a kinship that is felt.

This thread has coalesced many different topics on the boards and many thoughts i've had recently into a better picture in my mind...

There's a thread on Taken in Hand which espouses the concept of a submissive alpha female... a naturally dominant female who chooses to submit to a superior Dominant male (did i paraphrase that right?) ...a concept i grasp very readily and identify with.

There's a thread (can't remember which one) where i posted about this idea that Dom's can come into a relationship knowing how to Dominate, but it is always assumed that a submissive has to be "trained" to serve...why can't a Dominant man believe that i have a fair knowledge of how to serve and simply direct that basic knowledge to suit His tastes??

I would go so far as to say the term submissive alpha female describes me exactly...i cannot serve a man lesser in competence and confidence than i... because i cannot trust him enough to let go of myself into his care.

Enter in, your concept of repect and the manner is which a Master speaks to His submissive...

Whip me, beat me, spank me...yeah you'll get my attention, sure...and you'll get things your way.

But if you wish me to submit to you, trust you, become transparent to you, serve you from my deepest soul, just say something along the lines of " i prefer my (fill in the blank) to be (this way)." i instantly experience the shame and disappointment of not having pleased you perfectly, i am comforted in my failure by your respect for my efforts, albeit less than satisfactory, and i will never forget those words as they will be burned into my brain along with the shame...and you would not believe the lengths to which i will go, not to feel shame and failure.

The Man who leads me like this, from within his natural-borne confidence and power...i would happily follow to Hell. Players, weekend warriors, wannabes surround themselves with the trappings of the lifestyle in order to play the part...but it seems the toys wind up wearing the players, rather than the other way round.

The Master i seek can drop me to my knees with his voice alone, a whispered word...can take me to edge with a pointed look....can stop me in my tracks with a touch to the small of my back or the lightest touch to my wrist.

Men like that aren't made...they are born.

 

[cremebrulee]

QUOTE:
A lot of men, particularly, PM me, or approach me in RL, recognizing that I have a Dominant streak. Most do so in an "immediate-submissive-I'll-call-you-Mistress" mode. That is SUCH a turn-off. I can't stand it. I don't like being called Mistress, or Lady, or whatever, by someone I have not chosen to be involved with. By calling me that, they are assuming a level of intimacy I've not granted.


Argh! I know exactly what you mean... ewwwwwwwwww. I have had that happen all too many times and it makes my skin crawl while they think it's some kind of compliment to tell me "I'd be willing to sit at your feet right now, and I don't do that for ANYone" Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

 

[sweetnpetite]

This thread is wonderful. Thanks so much for starting it. Reading here has given me a very different perspective on BDSM than many of the other threads I have read. (Perhaps I am naturally drawn to the threads that express what I have come to expect) This thread itself is very gentle and inpspiring.

Nusubgirl's post gave me chills. The thought of being so gently and almost invisibly comanded is quite intrieging.

I am grateful for all of your posts, and the careful thought you put into expressing the emotions behind what you are saying. It has given me a lot to think about.

 

[Tollo]

I have been following this thread for the last couple of days and several times I have wanted to comment, but so far I have been unsure how to approach the original post. It has struck me as unusual, but significant, that the discussion so far has been entirely from a variety of female perspectives.

The discussion seems to be focused on two very different types of men and what bothers me is that I see these as representing opposite extremes of a spectrum. The first is the "needy" type. The man who domineers, who wants only immediate satisfaction and is not interested in the subtleties of an actual relationship. This type apparently wants to be seen as a dominant (or submissive), and expects any submissive female to immediately fall to his feet, or conversely to be accepted by any Domme at first blush. In short, they are poseurs who seek validation.

The second type is a sort of "provider". This man does not have to try, does not want to be, but simply is, powerful and confident, by nature. This type has been considered only within the context of dominants so far.

Overall this thread has taken the form of either a rant against the first type, or a longing for the second. I can understand both sentiments, but I feel like a reality check is in order.

Most men whom I have known are somewhere between these two extremes. More specifically, most men move between these two extremes, sometimes being needy and sometimes being providers. In my efforts to be a good partner, I certainly strive to be more of a provider, but, a.) yes, it takes effort, and, b.) I cannot deny that I have also been needy. I want to "inspire" my partner's submission, but there are times when it does not work out so neatly. At times the best she can do is to be "obedient", but not truly "submissive". Is it my fault that I have not inspired her, or is it something in her that is holding back ? Fortunately we have never dwelt much on assigning blame, but rather on finding compromises. I know of no other way to make it all work for as long as we have.

So anyway, I guess my point is that it takes two to tango. True, a well executed dance requires a good lead, but even the best lead cannot simply inspire their partner to follow in such a way that the dance will come off looking elegant and effortless. Both must spend hours practicing to pull that off.

Tollo