Come Here And Leave A Better Editor

[AsylumSeeker]

I know the thread title is a hefty promise... but why not? Why can't an editor learn a new tip? I realize people are bored and start trite threads, but why not start substantive ones?

There are many editors out there, why not exchange ideas? Is this not what this forum is all about?

What are the latest editing questions? Newbies, don't be bashful.

Okay, I'll go away now, but I hope this match lights a fire.

 

[smidgeon]

I've only read/edited a handful of stories so far, but I'm curious how people handle grammar and/or punctuation issues...?

In one case, I was wary of overwhelming the author with comments/notes and so I focused on three or four issues for which I saw patterns throughout the story. I attached a note with a couple sentences addressing each issue, then pointed them out in the text noting the corrections. I explained that I did not mark every instance of error, but the writer should continue looking for the patterns noted when revising for submission.

Admittedly, my background is more in the teaching and tutoring realm and in an academic environment. So I approach the editing the same way - offering insights and suggestions, questions and comments. I don't think of myself as some kind of be-all, end-all answer to editing or feedback. I'm just an interested reader.

So having said all that... how do you folks approach a reading of a story?

And on a side-note.... the last (only, so far) time I PM'ed you, AsylumSeeker, with an editing question, you offered some great insights and feedback. And then you ripped off your shirt! So my real question to you is what do I get if I ask more questions?

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Taken Out of Context...

I've only read/edited a handful of stories so far, but I'm curious how people handle grammar and/or punctuation issues...?

In one case, I was wary of overwhelming the author with comments/notes and so I focused on three or four issues for which I saw patterns throughout the story. I attached a note with a couple sentences addressing each issue, then pointed them out in the text noting the corrections. I explained that I did not mark every instance of error, but the writer should continue looking for the patterns noted when revising for submission.

Admittedly, my background is more in the teaching and tutoring realm and in an academic environment. So I approach the editing the same way - offering insights and suggestions, questions and comments. I don't think of myself as some kind of be-all, end-all answer to editing or feedback. I'm just an interested reader.

So having said all that... how do you folks approach a reading of a story?

And on a side-note.... the last (only, so far) time I PM'ed you, AsylumSeeker, with an editing question, you offered some great insights and feedback. And then you ripped off your shirt! So my real question to you is what do I get if I ask more questions?

Hmm. taken out of context the "ripping off of my shirt" sounds a bit much, even for Lit <grin>

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Hmm. taken out of context the "ripping off of my shirt" sounds a bit much, even for Lit <grin>

Not only that, but the title of this thread leads me to wonder WHY I would want to leave a better editor, just to come here?

 

[sr71plt]

Not only that, but the title of this thread leads me to wonder WHY I would want to leave a better editor, just to come here?

If you had a better editor to leave somewhere, there's probably no better place to leave her/him than here, is there?

 

[AsylumSeeker]

The Mind Is A Funny Thing

When one knows what he/she is thinking it seems to make perfect sense. But after a night of debauchery I returned to revisit this thread before going to work and was myself taken aback at first by the thread title for a few moments. It hadn't occurred to me at that moment how ambiguous the title was, or is, or whatever.

I'd say that my intentions were/are good yet hear the echoes of my father's voice saying "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".

So editors, how do you edit? I don't "edit" per se but rather "offer suggestions". I think this can be a good learning tool for a developing writer. I frame a word or section of a sentence in brackets along with my suggestion. Allow me to demonstrate.

THEIRS: She hated how Dad reacts so quickly.

MINE: She hated how Dad [reacts - reacted] so quickly.

A bit simple but effective, and I use red (don't know how to here). When the writer makes the edits, which they have the freedom to choose or reject, they also learn.

As for punctuation, I'll do this.

THEIRS: The dog, ran, she followed.

MINE: The dog ran[, - delete] and she followed. (In this case, since I added a word, it would be in red).

Anyway that's my editing style. Allow the writers to decide what to change, and learn by doing it. Some may find fault with this method, but it works and my writers seem to appreciate it. However be sure to encourage them to send for a second look. I've done that and found brackets I'd inserted still present.

I'm well-meaning, yet far from perfect.

 

[DracheDD]

I put everything I do in red so that it's easily spotted by the author.
Punctuation changes, I generally just do it in red, but if I changed words or fixed a subject verb disagreement, then I change it and put a comment in like this: (Subject/verb agreement) or (Verb tense) etc. This way the author knows why I changed it or why something is in red and they can learn from it.

I don't re-write sentences all together. I figure that's up to the author's discretion, but I may put a comment in to let them know that something is awkward and they should consider re-wording it.

I always include an "Editor's Notes" section at the end of the story. This gives me the space to make literary suggestions or make note of grammar rules that may help the author in the future. Putting all this stuff at the end doesn't interfere with the story and it's easier for the author to delete my suggestions when they're finished.

I try to make sure that I tell them what I think they've done well and what I think needs work. I find authors are more receptive if you offer at least some encouragment. I make sure that my authors understand that these are just suggestions. They are free to disregard them if they want. It's their work, not mine, and they are responsible for making that decision.

I suggest that they re-read the entire story. There may be things that I didn't catch when I went through it. I'm certainly not perfect.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

A Question For Other Editors

I do have a question about the repetitive use of words. For example, how best to describe kissing at length? It seems bad form to keep repeating "mouth", "tongue", "lips", etc. So I try to find other words to describe, but have been told in feedback that "tendril" is not a good way to describe a tongue, "oral cavity" is definately NOT a way to describe a mouth, etc. Any comments?

When editing, what do you suggest regarding this? Or just you simply check for grammar/spelling and leave that to the writer? Being a writer myself I also try to mentor. Just wondering.

 

[DracheDD]

I do have a question about the repetitive use of words. For example, how best to describe kissing at length? It seems bad form to keep repeating "mouth", "tongue", "lips", etc. So I try to find other words to describe, but have been told in feedback that "tendril" is not a good way to describe a tongue, "oral cavity" is definately NOT a way to describe a mouth, etc. Any comments?

When editing, what do you suggest regarding this? Or just you simply check for grammar/spelling and leave that to the writer? Being a writer myself I also try to mentor. Just wondering.

I generally leave word choices to the author. I look at it as their preference versus mine. It's not my work, so my preference doesn't count.

I might make a few alternate suggestions if I don't agree with the choice, but ultimately it's up to them.

I had one story that kept using the same word over and over. I just suggested that the author either buy a thesaurus or use an online one to add some variety. Repetition gets boring and you don't want readers to quit reading because they're bored.

"Tendril" and "oral cavity" are probably not words I would have used, but without the context of those sentences I couldn't really offer a different choice, but sometimes it's enough to just add a different adjective to break up the monotony of using the same word.

 

[sr71plt]

I do have a question about the repetitive use of words. For example, how best to describe kissing at length? It seems bad form to keep repeating "mouth", "tongue", "lips", etc. So I try to find other words to describe, but have been told in feedback that "tendril" is not a good way to describe a tongue, "oral cavity" is definately NOT a way to describe a mouth, etc. Any comments?

When editing, what do you suggest regarding this? Or just you simply check for grammar/spelling and leave that to the writer? Being a writer myself I also try to mentor. Just wondering.

I usually just note that the word choice was jarring and tossed me out of the flow of the story and did they have another choice they thought would work. If what I thought was a "brilliant" fit occurred to me, I'd suggest, "maybe a word like xxx?"

What I try to establish with them up front is that one of the services they are getting from me is that I'm going to mark what seems jarring or intrusive or that throws me off the rails as a cold-start reader. And I try to get them to understand that they don't want their reader to be jarred or thrown off the rails by anything that wasn't designed to do that, if they can avoid it. Beyond that, I say it's up to them if they can improve on the word used.

One point on repeated words, though: sometimes repeating a word is good for the story in the same way Poe's "Nevermore" was good (and phenomenally memorable) for his poem. I try to be sensitive to that. When I write, I often repeat phrases over and over again--to drive home a rhythm and intensity of that partcular point. Sometimes "thrusting and thrusting and thrusting" is a whole lot more erotic than "thrusting and then moving on to another image."

And also, running through a whole list of synonyms to avoid repeating a word can be deadly to the rhythm and atmosphere of a story. Sometimes a hard cock is just that no matter how many other names you give it. Sometimes you need to suggest they just try writing around needing to name it continually. Show the emotions at play instead. Let those melt the reader rather than--or addition to--the graphic depiction.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Point Taken

I usually just note that the word choice was jarring and tossed me out of the flow of the story and did they have another choice they thought would work. If what I thought was a "brilliant" fit occurred to me, I'd suggest, "maybe a word like xxx?"

What I try to establish with them up front is that one of the services they are getting from me is that I'm going to mark what seems jarring or intrusive or that throws me off the rails as a cold-start reader. And I try to get them to understand that they don't want their reader to be jarred or thrown off the rails by anything that wasn't designed to do that, if they can avoid it. Beyond that, I say it's up to them if they can improve on the word used.

One point on repeated words, though: sometimes repeating a word is good for the story in the same way Poe's "Nevermore" was good (and phenomenally memorable) for his poem. I try to be sensitive to that. When I write, I often repeat phrases over and over again--to drive home a rhythm and intensity of that partcular point. Sometimes "thrusting and thrusting and thrusting" is a whole lot more erotic than "thrusting and then moving on to another image."

And also, running through a whole list of synonyms to avoid repeating a word can be deadly to the rhythm and atmosphere of a story. Sometimes a hard cock is just that no matter how many other names you give it. Sometimes you need to suggest they just try writing around needing to name it continually. Show the emotions at play instead. Let those melt the reader rather than--or addition to--the graphic depiction.

I edited a story probably six months ago where a newly divorced woman (at least in the story, although I think it was written by a newly divorced woman) who used "I" to the point of distraction. I suggested restructuring sentences to reduce the number of times "I" was used and the response I got back was that the story was about "her", and "her newfound freedom", and she wanted the story to have an "I" feel. Pretty much what you said, SR, about "thrusting, thrusting," etc.

And it was her story, not mine, so I helped where I could and gave her the choice what to accept and reject. There are times as a writer when I intentionally repeat words for effect as well (none come to mind at the moment, however) so I am mindful of that when I edit, and I'm not afraid to ask "Was this intentional"?

 

[DracheDD]

One point on repeated words, though: sometimes repeating a word is good for the story in the same way Poe's "Nevermore" was good (and phenomenally memorable) for his poem. I try to be sensitive to that. When I write, I often repeat phrases over and over again--to drive home a rhythm and intensity of that partcular point. Sometimes "thrusting and thrusting and thrusting" is a whole lot more erotic than "thrusting and then moving on to another image."

Very good point.
Repetition can be a good thing if it's intended.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I do have a question about the repetitive use of words. ... When editing, what do you suggest regarding this? ...

I have standard comments for a lot of standard problems, and this is one. It is worded:

The repetition of a word in the same, or closely related sentences has a particularly sonorous, almost soporific effect. If that is what you want, use it, but never do it carelessly. Compare with the use of ‘black’ and ‘slow’ in the opening lines of Under Milk Wood (Dylan Thomas) where it is intentional.

I use a three-colour comment coding system. The pink colour indicates that it is a comment that any literary editor would make, not a personal foible, but that it would be left for the author to correct.

 

[CopyCarver]

I have standard comments for a lot of standard problems, and this is one. It is worded:

The repetition of a word in the same, or closely related sentences has a particularly sonorous, almost soporific effect. If that is what you want, use it, but never do it carelessly. Compare with the use of ‘black’ and ‘slow’ in the opening lines of Under Milk Wood (Dylan Thomas) where it is intentional.

I use a three-colour comment coding system. The pink colour indicates that it is a comment that any literary editor would make, not a personal foible, but that it would be left for the author to correct.

*checking in briefly so a.w.o.l. doesn’t escalate to desertion charges, and then reluctantly return to ye olde salt mine*


I agree with Snooper, D-DD , and even He that I Studiously Ignore.

Repetition of the same few words is generally a negative and one that is easy to remedy since English is so rich in synonyms; it can, in some cases, increase impact, unity, or flow. I tend to regard the issue as a judgment call rather than an absolute. The criteria for me is whether a repeated word works in any specific application. Occasionally it does; usually it does not.

My usual practice is to highlight the repeated word, use Word’s “Insert Comment” feature to suggest a few alternatives in the margin, and allow the author to decide whether (s)he wants to make a change.

 

[blackkitten30]

these are great ideas.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I have standard comments for a lot of standard problems, and this is one. It is worded:

The repetition of a word in the same, or closely related sentences has a particularly sonorous, almost soporific effect. If that is what you want, use it, but never do it carelessly. Compare with the use of ‘black’ and ‘slow’ in the opening lines of Under Milk Wood (Dylan Thomas) where it is intentional.

I use a three-colour comment coding system. The pink colour indicates that it is a comment that any literary editor would make, not a personal foible, but that it would be left for the author to correct.

In describing orgasms I use the word "tingle" a lot. As far as I am aware there are no synonyms to describe the erotic event. If I'm wrong I'd be open for comments.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

In describing orgasms I use the word "tingle" a lot. As far as I am aware there are no synonyms to describe the erotic event. If I'm wrong I'd be open for comments.

Synonyms used for orgasm include climax, fulfilment, and peak, and such circumlocutions as shuddering, twitching, and being carried away..

 

[AsylumSeeker]

What I was asking is if there is another way of describing "tingling", which I always seem to fall back upon. As for describing the event I use such things as "joyous delightful sensations rippling through her body", and/or "uncontrollabel spasms of ecstasy", or comparing an orgasm to a nuclear event within the loins of the sexually charged individual.

I try to be creative and a little different each time, although the event itself in real life is pretty much the same. It's great, but still the same. At Least in my experience. And maybe I'm mssing something.

 

[DracheDD]

What I was asking is if there is another way of describing "tingling", which I always seem to fall back upon. As for describing the event I use such things as "joyous delightful sensations rippling through her body", and/or "uncontrollabel spasms of ecstasy", or comparing an orgasm to a nuclear event within the loins of the sexually charged individual.

I try to be creative and a little different each time, although the event itself in real life is pretty much the same. It's great, but still the same. At Least in my experience. And maybe I'm mssing something.

It sounds to me like you have plenty of variety in your descriptions already.
I don't think the use of "tingle" repeatedly would be that big of a deal, but then I haven't read your story, so I'm just guessing here. It would depend on how frequent the word is. For example: If you used it multiple times in the same paragraph, that might be a little distracting or it might create a nice rythm.

It's really all a guessing game if we're just talking about an abstract idea. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the author and I disagree whether it works or not. It's pretty subjective. There's no right or wrong way, really.