Combined Moderation Morality Question

[Rob_mDear]

I have a story idea, and I’d like some input on one story element. Without going into too much detail, the story involves a girl who was turned into a vampire. Four years later she’s trying to revisit her past life/lovers, to resolve various personal issues, but through the lens of someone living a horrible, monstrous existence which makes certain past and future actions pale in comparison to what she does as a vampire.

My dilemma as an author lies in her age when “turned” (i.e. killed but not killed), which means her body remains in that state (vampires don’t age, at least my vampires don’t) even though she “matures” relative to the passage of time, making her anywhere from 20 to 25 when the story (and the sex) occurs.

I have a few, non-critical reasons to want her to be 16 when she is turned; non-critical, but useful to the theme and structure of parts of the story. I can warp her “death” age from 16 to 18 or even later, and I may ultimately choose to do so if plot/theme/structure reasons require it. But for now, I have a few reasons to want to make her 16. I’m just unsure if I should start from that point (and thus incur any accompanying work needed to undo that decision downstream, if it turns out I shouldn’t have done it to begin with).

So... do you think that a vampire, turned at 16 and so trapped in the body of a 16 year old, even at the age of 24, amounts to an underage character? I absolutely do not want the story to appeal to a reader because of that detail, or to be perceived or focused on by any reader as an important point. I’ll studiously avoid any physical details related to that reality (i.e. a “sixteen year-old body type”).

And whether or not it is deemed morally acceptable, how do you think the Lit moderators will respond?

Thoughts are welcome.

Oh, and one important point before you reply:

I haven’t bothered with the forums for many, many years. Too much hurtful bullying goes on. There are a few too many damaged people here (and yes, hand up, I definitely qualify as damaged myself, so please don’t take offense). If you’re that sort of person (meaning a hurtful bully, not just damaged, damaged is fine), I’ll just block you instantly. That’s not to say you can’t strongly express an opinion, even a negative one, but I’m going to have a very short fuse. I’m looking for intelligent, coherent input, not judgment or vitriol.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

When she was 8, she skinned her knee. And now she's 24.

When she was 12, she hit menarche. And now she's 24.

And eight years ago, when she was 16, she turned into a vampire. That's backstory. Now she's having sex. And she's 24 years old now.

She was born roughly 288 months ago - 24 years ago.

Go for it.

 

[KeithD]

Oh just stop with the attempts at underage "slip through" justification. There's no reason to have anything happen before 18 in a story destined for Literotica. Post it somewhere else or just stop trying to elude the Web site's selection rules.

The only stories I can think of that really should logically have sex happen before eighteen are ones set in medieval times, when all of this generally did happen before eighteen because many people were dead before eighteen. Those stories just can be submitted somewhere else. SOL takes younger age stories.

 

[ElectricBlue]

If you write a sixteen year old girl's physicality on Lit, however you dress up her mind or maturity, you're writing under-age in terms of the Lit age policy. It won't fly.

You need to write adults in adult bodies to comply with the Lit age policy. It's pretty simple.

 

[MelissaBaby]

To me, I'd see that as a wink,wink, nudge nudge thing. Sure, she's 24, but really folks, we all know she's 16.

 

[NotWise]

What's the morality question?

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't see this as a morality issue. 16 year olds have sex. It's not weird or icky to acknowledge that or to think it's a fit subject for a story.

But it won't fly here, from what I understand. If you make it clear that the character continues to live in a 16 year old body, then that's a titillating part of the story for readers, and the moderators aren't going to allow that.

If you want the story to be on Literotica, you probably need to change it. There are other places that will take stories like this without that change.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Interesting. I seem to be going against the flow again. Plus ça change...

I accept the thoughts of those above, but if I read his question aright, the OP has said he’s not stressing a 16-year-old body and the sex is now.

The reason we (rightly) shun pedophilia is primarily because the underaged have not the mental experience, viewpoint, maturity etc to give proper consent. If the heroine is 24, then she’s had 24 years of life experience, ergo that doesn’t apply. Or am I missing something?

 

[KeithD]

The reason we (rightly) shun pedophilia is primarily because the underaged have not the mental experience, viewpoint, maturity etc to give proper consent. If the heroine is 24, then she’s had 24 years of life experience, ergo that doesn’t apply. Or am I missing something?

Whatever we individually think about the subject has absolutely nothing to do with the submission rules at Literotica. This is just another "how do I get around the rules" query. It requires no ad nauseum rediscussion of the issue.

 

[SimonDoom]

Interesting. I seem to be going against the flow again. Plus ça change...

I accept the thoughts of those above, but if I read his question aright, the OP has said he’s not stressing a 16-year-old body and the sex is now.

The reason we (rightly) shun pedophilia is primarily because the underaged have not the mental experience, viewpoint, maturity etc to give proper consent. If the heroine is 24, then she’s had 24 years of life experience, ergo that doesn’t apply. Or am I missing something?

Always look at things from the standpoint of the reader. Always, always, always. It's all that matters. The issue arises on another thread going on right now about incest. Same thing. Logic has nothing to do with this.

Why have a character that's over 21 but trapped in a 16 year old body? There might be many reasons. But from the reader's standpoint -- because it's titillating. It doesn't matter how you set up the plot and what reasons you give. Having a character with a 16 year old body that's "really" older than that is going to draw interest precisely because of the under-18 element. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I have no problem with it. But the site moderators do, and that's all that counts. So, by the standard they've set here and tried to enforce, it shouldn't fly.

Take it to an extreme. If you have a sci fi story with a planet full of 100 year old people who look like little kids, it's not going to fly on this site, obviously. It doesn't matter how mature they are. The sole issue is whether the story is likely to draw readers interested in the under 18 element.

 

[Rob_mDear]

KiethD and electricblue66, your answers are entirely unhelpful because you don’t seem to have read the original post before answering. Feel free to try again with a response that doesn’t ignore the details in the original request.

MelissaBaby, yeah, that was one of my gut fears, that regardless of intent or execution, it would be perceived that way, both by readers and moderators.

SimonDoom; that was my initial thought. I was hoping that if the details were limited to describing the timing of the incident, and an occasional comment by other characters of “you haven’t changed at all”, that would be opaque enough... but perhaps not. Other plot elements require the thoughts of the protagonist, and that might take it too far (no sex, but just too clear a reference to the earlier age). In other stories of mine, I have always avoided having characters even think about their pre-18-y-o lives, even if entirely chaste. Maybe I need to go with that rule here, no matter what.

KiethD: I just read your second post, and if you don’t mind my saying so, you’re just being a blatant dick. I never, ever said, or even remotely implied, that I was using this to “get around the rules.” That characterization is entirely on you, and out of line. I think I was very clear on that, in which case, that means that you’re just purposely misinterpreting what I wrote so you can be a, you know, blatant dick.

I am so fucking tired of this place. I’m almost sorry I wasted my energy. It never changes.

To the others, I think I have all I need; my gut said it wouldn’t fly with moderators, and that readers would be drawn to the setup for the wrong reasons, and your responses suggest that my gut was right. So... I need to think of other ways to work in those aspects of her character. Given that, I’ll go with my usual characterizations and put the starting age well over 18. Too bad, the story would have been easier and more fun the other way, but I guess I’m realizing that I don’t want to dance on the edge with it.

Thanks for the help (except for you, Keith, you’re a dick).

 

[Hypoxia]

Laurel has been quite clear. Any being that *appears* to be an underage human can't have sex described here. An immortal trapped in a young body; an ancient alien looking like a youngster; adult-to-adolescent mind swaps -- nope. The only way around the rule that I've seen has an underage mind inhabit an adult body, by magic, coma, time-warp, or whatever. Think Tom Hanks' BIG. But that's pretty sleazy too.

Laurel doesn't want underage sex stories and it's her site so live with it.

 

[KeithD]

KiethD and electricblue66, your answers are entirely unhelpful because you don’t seem to have read the original post before answering. Feel free to try again with a response that doesn’t ignore the details in the original request.

MelissaBaby, yeah, that was one of my gut fears, that regardless of intent or execution, it would be perceived that way, both by readers and moderators.

Your second paragraph belies your first one. Think why a character in a Literotica story has to be under 18 for any purpose whatsoever. Think what your motivation and purpose for that is. Be honest. Attempts to circumvent the Web site's rules like yours are beyond tiresome on the discussion board. I don't really care what you think about my pointing out this continuous attempt to bring up inventive ways to write underage here. I'm not the one trying to sneak in underage titillation here, so I don't think I'm the one being a dick. I don't really care what you think about it.

You've been writing here for eleven years. Don't play the innocent on submission rules.

 

[Hypoxia]

I hope this is clear enough.

...my gut said it wouldn’t fly with moderators...

There are no 'moderators'. Laurel owns the site and passes on every single submission. She will reject any story she thinks shows what appears to be an underage human having sex. Post such elsewhere.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Interesting. I seem to be going against the flow again. Plus ça change...

I accept the thoughts of those above, but if I read his question aright, the OP has said he’s not stressing a 16-year-old body and the sex is now.

The reason we (rightly) shun pedophilia is primarily because the underaged have not the mental experience, viewpoint, maturity etc to give proper consent. If the heroine is 24, then she’s had 24 years of life experience, ergo that doesn’t apply. Or am I missing something?

You missed the vampire trope that the vamp, even if a thousand years old, is trapped in the body she died in - in the proposed case, a sixteen year old's body.

Every time he writes the blood bedazzled bint, it's her sixteen year old budding or pert or voluptuous breasts that he writes her - but she remains the perpetual teenager, under eighteen and off to the junior prom.

The solution is simple: like every other Literotic virginity lost, up age her so she's no longer a teenage girl, but a young woman, over eighteen; her death a slight inconvenience, but nothing more than that.

 

[KeithD]

The solution is simple: like every other Literotic virginity lost, up age her so she's no longer a teenage girl, but a young woman, over eighteen; her death a slight inconvenience, but nothing more than that.

And there's the rub. Every writer who says they can't do that with their precious story is really trying to find a way to play the titillating underage card here.

 

[ElectricBlue]

KiethD and electricblue66, your answers are entirely unhelpful because you don’t seem to have read the original post before answering. Feel free to try again with a response that doesn’t ignore the details in the original request.

Trust me, I read it, just like I've read the question several dozen times before. It's the age of the body that matters, not the age inside her head, and the Lit policy rule is quite simple.

Kirsten Dunst might have played a six hundred year old Claudia, but the girl on the screen was twelve. Your long "justification" is nothing more than an attempt to pretend, if it was her, she'd somehow, magically, be eighteen.

You're not the first to think that "vampire rules" are somehow a way to dodge Literotica's eighteen year rule, and I'm sure you won't be the last. My answer tried to keep it simple, but clearly, you didn't want to see that.

 

[ElectricBlue]

And there's the rub. Every writer who says they can't do that with their precious story is really trying to find a way to play the titillating underage card here.

Exactly. Leave the sixteen year olds be with their teenage innocence, and write a young woman or a young man. It really isn't so hard.

Or, if there's a plot reason for a young character (and there might be), keep them a thousand words away from the sex. But with a vampire story, I suspect that misses the point.

 

[Hypoxia]

Leave the sixteen year olds be with their teenage ignorance...

Fixed for ya.

 

[AlinaX]

I once wrote an erotic vampire tale where the protagonist was turned when she was 16ish, which was a recurring plot point. The erotic sex described was always when she was much older, although reference was made to it happening at a younger age also.

However:
- it was first-person with the vampire herself narrating
- she generally passed as a young woman, twenty-something
- it wasn't written for Literotica.

So I understand the dilemma, but since this is Literotica I would advise you to increase the transition age.

 

[Rob_mDear]

Electric blue and Keith, you’re both full-of-yourselves, obnoxious pricks. Really, take a look in the mirror. You’re piss poor people. No, you’re not better than everyone here. No, you don’t know what other people are thinking. No, you don’t get to hand down judgment based on how amazingly intuitive you are about what other people think.

You’re just dicks.

Later. I won’t be back to this shit forum for another decade.

 

[Handley_Page]

Electric blue and Keith, you’re both full-of-yourselves, obnoxious pricks. Really, take a look in the mirror. You’re piss poor people. No, you’re not better than everyone here. No, you don’t know what other people are thinking. No, you don’t get to hand down judgment based on how amazingly intuitive you are about what other people think.

You’re just dicks.

Later. I won’t be back to this shit forum for another decade.

"So... do you think that a vampire, turned at 16 and so trapped in the body of a 16 year old, even at the age of 24, amounts to an underage character? "
Yes; definitely.

A discussion about the finer points of story theory and the Rules is not helped by your being rude.
Change her induction from 16 to 18/19, and it will probably fly OK.

 

[ChloeTzang]

OP: The question you asked was straightforward. The answers you got explained why it wouldn’t fly on Literotica. The rule is pretty explicitly stated. It eoukd get rejected. It’s a question that comes up time and time again on Literotica and time and time again people try and work around it.

It boils down to website rules. SOL goes down to 14. ASSTR has no rules and I’m sure there’s other sites out there that’ll take it.

 

[SimonDoom]

Electric blue and Keith, you’re both full-of-yourselves, obnoxious pricks. Really, take a look in the mirror. You’re piss poor people. No, you’re not better than everyone here. No, you don’t know what other people are thinking. No, you don’t get to hand down judgment based on how amazingly intuitive you are about what other people think.

You’re just dicks.

Later. I won’t be back to this shit forum for another decade.

I'm not sure why you are so upset. You posted a question yesterday and within 12 hours you received a lot of good advice. People aren't questioning your morality. They're advising you that authorial intention doesn't matter regarding an issue like this. The Site owner has her own way of looking at things, and some of the authors are experienced enough to have a pretty good idea how she would look at this. That's all. You asked a question, and it got answered.

This question gets asked all the time, in an infinite variety of ways. I've only been on this forum for two and a half years and I have seen at least twenty threads posing a variation of this question. That explains what may seem like impatience in some answers to your question. Don't take it personally.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

OK, the heat here has gone over the top. Uncalled for.

Simon, thanks for a coherent - and accepted - response.