Coerced interrogation~~Waterboarding

[garbage can]

As we all know, waterboarding is a very effective technique for extracting info from terrorists without inflicting physical harm.

The average length of time a prisoner can tolerate waterboarding is 14 seconds

The record holder for waterboarding is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he lasted a whopping 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Are you for it, or against it ?....for obtaining info that may save lives, such as the 21 terrorists that were about to take down 21 planes.

 

[Lushisss]

Waterboarding?

 

[sweetvee]

As we all know, waterboarding is a very effective technique for extracting info from terrorists without inflicting physical harm.

The average length of time a prisoner can tolerate waterboarding is 14 seconds

The record holder for waterboarding is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he lasted a whopping 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Are you for it, or against it ?....for obtaining info that may save lives, such as the 21 terrorists that were about to take down 21 planes.

i just looked waterboarding up... very disturbing

 

[breakwall]

http://www.trexperience.com/images/vesihiihto_iso.jpg

"I'll talk! I'll talk! Just get this stupid mullet off me!"

 

[Lushisss]

Ahh..those reliable folks at wikipedia.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

As we all know, waterboarding is a very effective technique for extracting info from terrorists without inflicting physical harm.

The average length of time a prisoner can tolerate waterboarding is 14 seconds

The record holder for waterboarding is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he lasted a whopping 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Are you for it, or against it ?....for obtaining info that may save lives, such as the 21 terrorists that were about to take down 21 planes.

Too bad it's not an effective technique for extracting reliable info from terrorists - at least then one might be able to use an "ends justifies the means" argument.

 

[Drixxx]

I thought we were a Xtian nation. Who would Jesus waterboard?

 

[garbage can]

Waterboarding?

You tie a person to a table (plank), then tilt the feet end of the table up a few degrees (enough so water cannot get into the lungs). Tie a cloth over the face, then turn on the water over the face. Breathing is difficult but not impossible.... the fear of drowning breaks them....though it's unlikely they'd drown, since water is not getting into the lungs.

 

[garbage can]

Ahh..those reliable folks at wikipedia.

Lushiss, there are other sources that describe roughly the same thing.

 

[NewEnglandGirl]

I guess it would be an acceptable method for brand new prisoners, but it has been used on people who had been in captivity for months or even years. No information they hold could possibly still be valid.

 

[garbage can]

Too bad it's not an effective technique for extracting reliable info from terrorists - at least then one might be able to use an "ends justifies the means" argument.

Yes, I figured the word "reliable" would come up.

I had heard the 21 London aircraft terrorist were caught via info obtained by waterboarding.

But it's easy to refute that too........... conversation terminated.

I'll mark you down as "against it".

 

[breakwall]

it seems like it's taking the old "twisting your arm until you say uncle" thing to the next level.

I know it's extreme, but it beats the alternatives.

 

[Slowlane]

As we all know, waterboarding is a very effective technique for extracting info from terrorists without inflicting physical harm.

The average length of time a prisoner can tolerate waterboarding is 14 seconds

The record holder for waterboarding is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he lasted a whopping 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Are you for it, or against it ?....for obtaining info that may save lives, such as the 21 terrorists that were about to take down 21 planes.

In the traditional use I say no. If the modern use is being explained truthfully then I say go for it.

 

[Slowlane]

Too bad it's not an effective technique for extracting reliable info from terrorists - at least then one might be able to use an "ends justifies the means" argument.

An old argument, but one that won’t wash. No method is 100% reliable any and all information needs corroboration. If two water boarded people, who have otherwise been kept separate, give up similar information then “bingo” there is a starting place. If it’s only one person who breaks than further investigation is required.

That kind of information is only a place to start. But it IS a place to start.

I certainly wouldn't rely on it for an honest confession.

 

[Drixxx]

Torture is wrong folks. Who do you trust to torture people? Bush is ok right? How about Hilliary Clinton? Ted Krennedy? Nancy Pelosi? How about if they were ones who decides who gets tortured and who doesn't.

 

[DV81]

Torture is wrong folks. Who do you trust to torture people? Bush is ok right? How about Hilliary Clinton? Ted Krennedy? Nancy Pelosi? How about if they were ones who decides who gets tortured and who doesn't.

if it were Gallagher, he could make it fun.

 

[Wok]

As we all know, waterboarding is a very effective technique for extracting info from terrorists without inflicting physical harm.

The average length of time a prisoner can tolerate waterboarding is 14 seconds

The record holder for waterboarding is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he lasted a whopping 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Are you for it, or against it ?....for obtaining info that may save lives, such as the 21 terrorists that were about to take down 21 planes.

It does not matter what my opinion is, it's going to happen regardless.

 

[TWB]

As we all know, waterboarding is a very effective technique for extracting info from terrorists without inflicting physical harm.

The average length of time a prisoner can tolerate waterboarding is 14 seconds

The record holder for waterboarding is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he lasted a whopping 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Are you for it, or against it ?....for obtaining info that may save lives, such as the 21 terrorists that were about to take down 21 planes.

Its an effective technique for getting someone to say something, but not necessarily truthful info.

Please tell me what source you have that says that waterboarding was used in the investigation that led to the arrest of the alleged terrorists to which you refer. I think the brits used old fashoned police work and a tip.

 

[TWB]

You tie a person to a table (plank), then tilt the feet end of the table up a few degrees (enough so water cannot get into the lungs). Tie a cloth over the face, then turn on the water over the face. Breathing is difficult but not impossible.... the fear of drowning breaks them....though it's unlikely they'd drown, since water is not getting into the lungs.

Actually, waterboarding is dangerous and people do drown. People who are waterboarded often lose consciousness and have to be revived.

Is waterboarding torture? The United States thinks so. Well, I forgot we have a president who likes to ignore history.

Interestingly, the United States has long since answered that question. Following the end of the Second World War we prosecuted a number of Japanese military and civilian officials for war crimes. including the torture of captured Allied personnel. At one of those trials, United States v. Sawada, here’s how Captain Chase Nielsen, a crew member in the 1942 Doolittle Raid on Japan, described his treatment, when he was captured, (and later tried for alleged war crimes by a Japanese military commission):

Q: What other physical treatment was administered to you at that time?

A: Well, I was given what they call the water cure.

Q: Explain to the Commission what that was.

A: Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water was poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let me up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start over again.

Q: When you regained consciousness would they keep asking you questions?

A: Yes sir they did.

Q: How long did this treatment continue?

A: About twenty minutes.

Q: What was your sensation when they were pouring water on the towel, what did you physically feel?

A: Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death.


The prosecutor in that case was vehement in arguing that the captured Doolittle fliers had been wrongfully convicted by the Japanese tribunal, in part because they were convicted based on evidence obtained through torture. "The untrustworthiness of any admissions or confessions made under torture," he said, "would clearly vitiate a conviction based thereon."

At the end of the Tokyo War Crimes Trial, the International Military Tribunal for the Far East of which the United States was a leading member (the Tribunal was established by Douglas MacArthur) convicted former Japanese Prime Minister Tojo and numerous other generals and admirals of a panoply of war crimes. Among them was torture:

The practice of torturing prisoners of war and civilian internees prevailed at practically all places occupied by Japanese troops, both in the occupied territories and in Japan. The Japanese indulged in this practice during the entire period of the Pacific War. Methods of torture were employed in all areas so uniformly as to indicate policy both in training and execution. Among these tortures were the water treatment...

The so-called "water treatment" was commonly applied. The victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach until he lost consciousness. Pressure was then applied, sometimes by jumping upon his abdomen to force the water out. The usual practice was to revive the victim and successively repeat the process.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

The torture question has been done to death, quite literally. We all know who the people are that approve of torturing people for information and who disapproves of it.

Waterboarding is mental torture. Although the person is 'supposedly' in no real physical danger the sensation of drowning is quite real by all accounts. Information received by torture methods is unreliable, this has been shown to be true by more than a few experts in the field.

"Verifying" information gained through torture by torturing a second person is no less monstrous and no more reliable than other 'what if' scenarios put forward by advocates of torture. "What if" these people have all been conditioned to respond to torture in the same way, with the same misinformation? "What if" you torture 10 people and never get the same answers twice?

"What if" we don't descend to the level of barbarians and use torture in an attempt to protect ourselves.

 

[garbage can]

I guess it would be an acceptable method for brand new prisoners, but it has been used on people who had been in captivity for months or even years. No information they hold could possibly still be valid.

NEG.... I agree. And it's only supposed to be used on prisoners who are suspected of having info, like Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

 

[NewEnglandGirl]

NEG.... I agree. And it's only supposed to be used on prisoners who are suspected of having info, like Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

I knew we would find some common political ground at some point, my friend!

 

[garbage can]

In the traditional use I say no. If the modern use is being explained truthfully then I say go for it.

Yeah, Slowlane, I agree. If true, It seems like these guys break somewhere between 14 seconds and 150 seconds.....

 

[TWB]

The torture question has been done to death, quite literally. We all know who the people are that approve of torturing people for information and who disapproves of it.

Waterboarding is mental torture. Although the person is 'supposedly' in no real physical danger the sensation of drowning is quite real by all accounts. Information received by torture methods is unreliable, this has been shown to be true by more than a few experts in the field.

"Verifying" information gained through torture by torturing a second person is no less monstrous and no more reliable than other 'what if' scenarios put forward by advocates of torture. "What if" these people have all been conditioned to respond to torture in the same way, with the same misinformation? "What if" you torture 10 people and never get the same answers twice?

"What if" we don't descend to the level of barbarians and use torture in an attempt to protect ourselves.

I am sorry, but you are wrong. Waterboarding often includes loss of consciousness and revival by the torturers. If revival is not done timely the victim of the torture can die.

 

[TWB]

Yeah, Slowlane, I agree. If true, It seems like these guys break somewhere between 14 seconds and 150 seconds.....

I find it amusing that people taught to resist torture, CIA folks, say it took 14 seconds for them to break, yet it is not torture.

Absurd.