closed Thread

[Lazaran]

The rest here:
This could be the devastating proof that Hamas is faking its death figures


Comshaw

That ^ was never in question in my mind.

The "Hamas ministry of health" was providing the numbers.



And I give zero fucks if those numbers were co-signed by "independent humanitarian groups".

Shame on the useful idiots who accepted and propagated those farcically / blatantly manufactured numbers.



Side note:

The humanitarian crisis IS very real.

That ^ is what the U..S. and the world is CURRENTLY responding to. And rightly so.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

If you have NEW information on the war, please provide it. a little analysis is fine as well on the information you wish you provide... I even don't mind you supporting a side along with it.... But not without it.

If you want to discuss which side is worse, which peoples are worse, which history makes your side better.. etc. Please create a new thread.

Thanks

Tbh - every page seems to be a rehash of the same thing and it's just not a discussion. We get it.. You like xxx. You've posted that already.

I disagree. You have to challenge misinformation, such as this:

The rest here:
This could be the devastating proof that Hamas is faking its death figures


Comshaw

Because this rehashes the same professor’s article which has already been debunked.

The one thing not taken into account with that way of thinking is the actual devastation on the ground which shows it is far more likely that the death figures are actually much higher.

Also ignoring the issues of water quality (Israel is limiting water, don’t forget), starvation (it is happening - there are witnesses within MSF, the UN, and more), disease (running rampant), virtually no medical facilities able to deal with significant injuries (as Israel has destroyed or damaged them all).

And with respect, no - it’s not about “who I like” - which is a phenomenally crass way of putting it.

I am anti-genocide.

That should not be controversial.

Israel is carrying out a genocide.

You should be against that too.

This isn’t complicated.

Pro Israel posts that put out things which can be easily debunked, should be debunked.

We should not be forgetting what is happening and we should be calling it out, at every opportunity, because “never again” should have meant never again - for everyone.

 

[ll74]

I disagree. You have to challenge misinformation, such as this:


Because this rehashes the same professor’s article which has already been debunked.

The one thing not taken into account with that way of thinking is the actual devastation on the ground which shows it is far more likely that the death figures are actually much higher.

Also ignoring the issues of water quality (Israel is limiting water, don’t forget), starvation (it is happening - there are witnesses within MSF, the UN, and more), disease (running rampant), virtually no medical facilities able to deal with significant injuries (as Israel has destroyed or damaged them all).

And with respect, no - it’s not about “who I like” - which is a phenomenally crass way of putting it.

I am anti-genocide.

That should not be controversial.

Israel is carrying out a genocide.

You should be against that too.

This isn’t complicated.

Pro Israel posts that put out things which can be easily debunked, should be debunked.

We should not be forgetting what is happening and we should be calling it out, at every opportunity, because “never again” should have meant never again - for everyone.

You can do that elsewhere. I e already mentioned earlier in this thread that information should not be taken at face value and that corroboration of course may reveal different information

If you want to dispute the source as misinformation, then provide a second source that disagrees.... And corroborate that.

Perhaps create a separate thread to discuss your position further. This thread was created for information, not arguments.

And yes, I'm a crass one... I'm not here to give hugs.... Sorry.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

You can do that elsewhere. I e already mentioned earlier in this thread that information should not be taken at face value and that corroboration of course may reveal different information

If you want to dispute the source as misinformation, then provide a second source that disagrees.... And corroborate that.

I already did that on the previous page and clearly highlighted above that it was the same information and source being used.

Perhaps create a separate thread to discuss your position further. This thread was created for information, not arguments.

Information that needs to be accurate, rooted in evidence, and not providing a propaganda based agenda. You should be aiming your ire at someone else, not me, I am afraid.

As a historian in his day job, what you are advocating is basically giving carte blanche for misinformation to run rife and ignoring context.

And yes, I'm a crass one... I'm not here to give hugs.... Sorry.

But you seemingly set up the thread for information purposes. If that’s the case, you should be holding yourself and those in the thread to a higher standard than you’re asking for. Little more than just copy/pasting news links for fun.

This is a serious topic and it deserves to be treated seriously.

 

[ll74]

I already did that on the previous page and clearly highlighted above that it was the same information and source being used.



Information that needs to be accurate, rooted in evidence, and not providing a propaganda based agenda. You should be aiming your ire at someone else, not me, I am afraid.

As a historian in his day job, what you are advocating is basically giving carte blanche for misinformation to run rife and ignoring context.



But you seemingly set up the thread for information purposes. If that’s the case, you should be holding yourself and those in the thread to a higher standard than you’re asking for. Little more than just copy/pasting news links for fun.

This is a serious topic and it deserves to be treated seriously.

It sounds like you want to create your own thread. Please, by all means do. Maybe the repeated arguments and rehashed topics will go with you.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

It sounds like you want to create your own thread. Please, by all means do. Maybe the repeated arguments and rehashed topics will go with you.

That’s ridiculous and I think you are well aware of that. I presume you will be asking everyone else to commit to the same standards?

 

[ll74]

That’s ridiculous and I think you are well aware of that. I presume you will be asking everyone else to commit to the same standards?

I have multiple times in this thread. Specifically those who continue to dehumanize people in the conflict.

The thread continues to devolve into arguments of semantics, versions of history, and arguments over which side is the right side of history

 

[ll74]

This is incredibly hopeful. And while I'd prefer to see a permanent ceasefire and complete surrender of Hamas, getting aid to those in need, hostage release, and allowing movement of civilians to areas of safety are paramount.

Gaza ceasefire hopes rise after Hamas abandons key demands​

Israeli negotiators are heading to Qatar after the group dropped calls for a permanent end to hostilities and agreed a 40-day pause

The developments have weakened Hamas’s negotiating position even as casualties continue to rise in Gaza and global outrage continues to grow. On Saturday, ministry of health officials in the territory, which Hamas has ruled since 2007, said the total number of deaths since the beginning of the Israeli offensive had reached 31,490, mostly women and children.

Sources close to Hamas said its leaders now recognise that they need to show Palestinians “a big victory” to avoid a popular backlash after the immense destruction and loss of lives in five months of war.

“They know now that they need to demonstrate that they are really on the side of the people,” said one source.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I’ll allow myself to feel some hope when the remaining hostages are released. We’re coming up on six months of captivity.

 

[Comshaw]

I disagree. You have to challenge misinformation, such as this:


Because this rehashes the same professor’s article which has already been debunked.

The one thing not taken into account with that way of thinking is the actual devastation on the ground which shows it is far more likely that the death figures are actually much higher.

Also ignoring the issues of water quality (Israel is limiting water, don’t forget), starvation (it is happening - there are witnesses within MSF, the UN, and more), disease (running rampant), virtually no medical facilities able to deal with significant injuries (as Israel has destroyed or damaged them all).

And with respect, no - it’s not about “who I like” - which is a phenomenally crass way of putting it.

I am anti-genocide.

That should not be controversial.

Israel is carrying out a genocide.

You should be against that too.

This isn’t complicated.

Pro Israel posts that put out things which can be easily debunked, should be debunked.

We should not be forgetting what is happening and we should be calling it out, at every opportunity, because “never again” should have meant never again - for everyone.

I for one have not seen any opposing information calling this study erroneous. IF this has been debunked, please post a cite to prove your claim. So far all you have done is insist it is. I'm all for accurate, truthful facts. But a person claiming something is true does make it so.

Thank you

comshaw

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

I have multiple times in this thread. Specifically those who continue to dehumanize people in the conflict.

The thread continues to devolve into arguments of semantics, versions of history, and arguments over which side is the right side of history

“Versions of history” is a really dangerous quote and is basically arguing for the eradication of the Palestinian side of this conflict, which is just as bad as holocaust denial.

I’ll allow myself to feel some hope when the remaining hostages are released. We’re coming up on six months of captivity.

31,000 dead, over 70,000 injured, millions displaced, people starving.

They also matter.

You could reasonably argue, given Israel has shut all borders and conditioned aid, restricted water and the rest, that they currently have 2.3 million Palestinians captive.

I for one have not seen any opposing information calling this study erroneous. IF this has been debunked, please post a cite to prove your claim. So far all you have done is insist it is. I'm all for accurate, truthful facts. But a person claiming something is true does make it so.

Thank you

comshaw

https://apnews.com/article/israel-h...h-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...za-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201

This is the crux of it. The Hamas run health authority has been scrutinised repeatedly for decades by the UN and Aid agencies. If it’s good enough for the UN, it should be good enough for Israel - but consistently isn’t.

And it is Israel who are making it hardest for any accurate count to be taken - they have refused to allow in any journalists entry into Gaza, together with other UN bodies who would investigate this, or even allies.

So they make the accusation the figures are not accurate, but also prevent outside parties from getting in to corroborate one way or the other.

Point of order - Israel has repeatedly attacked the UN and made outlandish claims of them being in league with Hamas. Not even the US takes those claims seriously.

 

[ll74]

“Versions of history” is a really dangerous quote and is basically arguing for the eradication of the Palestinian side of this conflict, which is just as bad as holocaust denial.



31,000 dead, over 70,000 injured, millions displaced, people starving.

They also matter.

You could reasonably argue, given Israel has shut all borders and conditioned aid, restricted water and the rest, that they currently have 2.3 million Palestinians captive.


https://apnews.com/article/israel-h...h-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...za-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201

This is the crux of it. The Hamas run health authority has been scrutinised repeatedly for decades by the UN and Aid agencies. If it’s good enough for the UN, it should be good enough for Israel - but consistently isn’t.

And it is Israel who are making it hardest for any accurate count to be taken - they have refused to allow in any journalists entry into Gaza, together with other UN bodies who would investigate this, or even allies.

So they make the accusation the figures are not accurate, but also prevent outside parties from getting in to corroborate one way or the other.

Point of order - Israel has repeatedly attacked the UN and made outlandish claims of them being in league with Hamas. Not even the US takes those claims seriously.

You're missing my point. I'm not arguing whether you're right or wrong.

This thread is about information, not arguments. So pause before your tenth debating reply with the same person and decide to move on.

I get that you don't like Israel. You don't need another ten comments telling us how other people also don't like them.... That has been done by multiple people before you. Same with those who don't like Palestinians or Hamas. And yes, I get that this is fact to you and I know very well why because you have twenty comments explaining it.

Continuing to rehash the topic adds no value to this thread.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Got to be honest, I think your approach isn’t helpful.

Re Israel - I had no strong feelings prior to 7 October 2023 - having researched it, read up on the history, even spoken to those from Israel and Palestine, the truth matters, and it’s horrific, and needs speaking out.

One of the UKs MPs this week made a very good point - what would your reaction be if you swapped out the name Israel for any other country?

If you would be holding the rest of the world to a high standard, as member of the UN, then you should be doing the same with Israel, and wanting that and wanting peace, and the release of the hostages and the IDF reducing their collective punishment on Gaza is all legitimate.

So, no, I don’t buy the idea that we have to sit here and see repeated right wing, racist, dehumanising and fascist pieces and links get quoted without challenge. Always challenge.

 

[ll74]

Got to be honest, I think your approach isn’t helpful.

I don't care

Re Israel - I had no strong feelings prior to 7 October 2023 - having researched it, read up on the history, even spoken to those from Israel and Palestine, the truth matters, and it’s horrific, and needs speaking out.

I got that already after multiple posts documenting and explaining.

One of the UKs MPs this week made a very good point - what would your reaction be if you swapped out the name Israel for any other country?

You're exhausting.

If you would be holding the rest of the world to a high standard, as member of the UN, then you should be doing the same with Israel, and wanting that and wanting peace, and the release of the hostages and the IDF reducing their collective punishment on Gaza is all legitimate.

So, no, I don’t buy the idea that we have to sit here and see repeated right wing, racist, dehumanising and fascist pieces and links get quoted without challenge. Always challenge.

I think part of your issue is that you think I disagree with you on things. I've explained my position (which has changed over the events) multiple times through this thread.

I get it, Israel is bad and you've provided your sources that support that. So have others. I have even called for Netanyahu (and leaders of Hamas) to resign multiple times.

So your position is known and documented. Good job

 

[Comshaw]

“Versions of history” is a really dangerous quote and is basically arguing for the eradication of the Palestinian side of this conflict, which is just as bad as holocaust denial.



31,000 dead, over 70,000 injured, millions displaced, people starving.

They also matter.

You could reasonably argue, given Israel has shut all borders and conditioned aid, restricted water and the rest, that they currently have 2.3 million Palestinians captive.


https://apnews.com/article/israel-h...h-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...za-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201

This is the crux of it. The Hamas run health authority has been scrutinised repeatedly for decades by the UN and Aid agencies. If it’s good enough for the UN, it should be good enough for Israel - but consistently isn’t.

And it is Israel who are making it hardest for any accurate count to be taken - they have refused to allow in any journalists entry into Gaza, together with other UN bodies who would investigate this, or even allies.

So they make the accusation the figures are not accurate, but also prevent outside parties from getting in to corroborate one way or the other.

Point of order - Israel has repeatedly attacked the UN and made outlandish claims of them being in league with Hamas. Not even the US takes those claims seriously.

The study in the article I cited uses HAMAS' numbers to statistically show those numbers are inaccurate, extremely so. Unfortunately, nothing in the three articles you linked debunked the study in the article I linked. The study states that the numbers reported by Hamas cannot be accurate in light of other numbers reported by HAMAS military. Additionally, they are suspect because of the way the death toll has mounted, IE; "with almost metronomical linearity". The study uses HAMAS' own numbers to show why they can't be accurate. The articles you cited use anecdotal evidence such as "mounds of bodies" and admit the journalists on site cannot verify the numbers reported. Additionally, the article says that no outside agency can verify any numbers, for either side because Israel has the borders closed.

I wouldn't go into a long discussion of propaganda, but this situation is a prime time for the use of such tactics. Because of that ANY such reports like casualties, from either side are suspect until verified.

Additionally, anyone that has been in a war zone knows that during combat it is impossible to do things like get an accurate count of casualties, especially civilian casualties. So any claim the numbers are accurate is also suspect.



Comshaw

 

[vietato]

here

the dead number is always a political game

anti West pro terror

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties

look at the number, ALL MADE UP

 

[ll74]

Here's the question I have for the discussion on numbers that won't die.

If you don't believe the numbers (don't care why), then what do you believe the numbers are? And if you don't have anything cited in your assessment, fuck off.

 

[Rightguide]

No, don't "prove it". Take this shit to another thread.

No. Drop dead.

 

[Rightguide]

Israeli troops carve Star of David on back of tortured Gazan man.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768780969526300845

Just like Muricans used to carve swastikas on the forehead of Nazis, like in that documentary Inglorious Bastards!

How do you know that's not a hostage?

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Here's the question I have for the discussion on numbers that won't die.

If you don't believe the numbers (don't care why), then what do you believe the numbers are? And if you don't have anything cited in your assessment, fuck off.

It’s not as simple as that, and I will refer you to the comments I make in reference to Comshaw below:

The study in the article I cited uses HAMAS' numbers to statistically show those numbers are inaccurate, extremely so. Unfortunately, nothing in the three articles you linked debunked the study in the article I linked. The study states that the numbers reported by Hamas cannot be accurate in light of other numbers reported by HAMAS military. Additionally, they are suspect because of the way the death toll has mounted, IE; "with almost metronomical linearity". The study uses HAMAS' own numbers to show why they can't be accurate. The articles you cited use anecdotal evidence such as "mounds of bodies" and admit the journalists on site cannot verify the numbers reported. Additionally, the article says that no outside agency can verify any numbers, for either side because Israel has the borders closed.

I wouldn't go into a long discussion of propaganda, but this situation is a prime time for the use of such tactics. Because of that ANY such reports like casualties, from either side are suspect until verified.

Additionally, anyone that has been in a war zone knows that during combat it is impossible to do things like get an accurate count of casualties, especially civilian casualties. So any claim the numbers are accurate is also suspect.



Comshaw

Sorry Comshaw, I am in statistics, what the professor has shown is not proof that Hamas’ figures are made up.

Creating trend lines based on previous conflicts is actually at the crux of his hypothesis if you read through it fully, and this is a nonsense: particularly when we have evidence in the form of documentation from the IDF which shows explicitly that they have used more ordnance on Gaza in this war than they have used in all previous wars, combined.

The amount of ordnance dropped on Gaza is eye dropping and can only ave led to high rates of casualties

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...gery, the report,that they cannot be repaired.

This is just 31 December 2023, and since then Israel increased its aerial and ground assault on Gaza up until today.

France24, BBC, MSNBC and other news outlets have consistently confirmed the use of 2000lb “dumb” bombs which have 300m blast radius.

Given the size of Gaza, and the population density, the evidence points to the death toll being north of 100,000 in reality, particularly when you also consider we have hundreds - likely thousands - trapped under the rubble of high rise buildings that have been raised to the ground.

So;

• Israel has used dumb bombs indiscriminately with high explosive charge and high blast radius
• Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet

These two facts and the satellite imagery available online shows the destruction, to just the video and drone footage we have:

This is just one example, and there are dozens more. This is already two months old.

So actually, we could confidently say “Hamas’ figures are wrong” - and the reason for that is that the level of destruction, the type of weaponry used, and the high density population all point towards higher rates of deaths, not less.

So the professor’s postulations are, in short, crap. And he knows it - this is propaganda.

Incidentally, you mention journalists - currently over 100 have been killed in Gaza, more than in all other conflicts combined in the last 20 years.

The lack of journalists now on the ground to document what is happening is part of the problem, we simply haven’t seen enough of what the IDF and Hamas are doing.

However we know from international charities and the UN bodies working in Gaza that Israel and the IDF are the major blocking points for water, medical aid, food, electricity, and much more.

So a population of 2.3 million is mostly blocked from any access to basic tenants of life. How are they still living?

The answer is - they’re not. But we don’t have enough access allowed by Israel into Gaza to actually analyse and document what’s going on.

So back to the roundabout point - what do we do with Hamas’ figures and why are they still important?

Hamas’ numbers are derived from communications between all of the hospitals, which is difficult because Israel has consistently disrupted and/or bombed communication infrastructure since 21 October 2023.

However, these figures are based on actual, definitive deaths registered to the systems between the hospitals. What is frightening is that the registered deaths are only those for which definitive identification has been made, at this stage.

The main reason for the figures being so regular is the reporting system and the inability of the aid agencies and medical structure in Gaza from functioning properly. There’s almost no ambulances, there are no hospitals fully functioning, most are in fact empty shells and desolate.

Many deaths may even be only reported some days after the death has occurred, based on when a body is recovered.

So some of this backs up in the reporting system too.

What I find most heinous about that Professor’s - in my opinion - thoroughly unacademic approach is that he hasn’t:

• Considered the weaponry being used
• The density of the popularion
• The blocking of water/aid/medical supplies/etc by Israel
• The destruction of communication systems
• The widespread destruction and damage to infrastructure making search and rescue almost impossible

So in short, the piece written has substantial flaws, doesn’t take in all the available knowledge we have, and is for that reason, to be dismissed.

The reason for the piece is to the usual thing of “Hamas bad, untrustworthy” when a reasonable academic would look at the situation in the round, look at the different factors influencing the whole situation, and would realise pretty quickly that though he may be right that the Hamas figures aren’t accurate, it’s not as he suggests coming from Hamas’ health ministry trying to inflate the figures, but actually a far more nuanced and complicated situation that leads us to only one actual conclusion: the death toll is in fact far, far higher, but it is not possible at this time to ascertain what it is given the restrictions Israel has placed on Gaza.

 

[ll74]

It’s not as simple as that, and I will refer you to the comments I make in reference to Comshaw below:


Sorry Comshaw, I am in statistics, what the professor has shown is not proof that Hamas’ figures are made up.

Creating trend lines based on previous conflicts is actually at the crux of his hypothesis if you read through it fully, and this is a nonsense: particularly when we have evidence in the form of documentation from the IDF which shows explicitly that they have used more ordnance on Gaza in this war than they have used in all previous wars, combined.

The amount of ordnance dropped on Gaza is eye dropping and can only ave led to high rates of casualties

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-bombardment-destroyed-over-70-of-gaza-homes-media-office#:~:text=Analysing satellite imagery, the report,that they cannot be repaired.

This is just 31 December 2023, and since then Israel increased its aerial and ground assault on Gaza up until today.

France24, BBC, MSNBC and other news outlets have consistently confirmed the use of 2000lb “dumb” bombs which have 300m blast radius.

Given the size of Gaza, and the population density, the evidence points to the death toll being north of 100,000 in reality, particularly when you also consider we have hundreds - likely thousands - trapped under the rubble of high rise buildings that have been raised to the ground.

So;

• Israel has used dumb bombs indiscriminately with high explosive charge and high blast radius
• Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet

These two facts and the satellite imagery available online shows the destruction, to just the video and drone footage we have:

This is just one example, and there are dozens more. This is already two months old.

So actually, we could confidently say “Hamas’ figures are wrong” - and the reason for that is that the level of destruction, the type of weaponry used, and the high density population all point towards higher rates of deaths, not less.

So the professor’s postulations are, in short, crap. And he knows it - this is propaganda.

Incidentally, you mention journalists - currently over 100 have been killed in Gaza, more than in all other conflicts combined in the last 20 years.

The lack of journalists now on the ground to document what is happening is part of the problem, we simply haven’t seen enough of what the IDF and Hamas are doing.

However we know from international charities and the UN bodies working in Gaza that Israel and the IDF are the major blocking points for water, medical aid, food, electricity, and much more.

So a population of 2.3 million is mostly blocked from any access to basic tenants of life. How are they still living?

The answer is - they’re not. But we don’t have enough access allowed by Israel into Gaza to actually analyse and document what’s going on.

So back to the roundabout point - what do we do with Hamas’ figures and why are they still important?

Hamas’ numbers are derived from communications between all of the hospitals, which is difficult because Israel has consistently disrupted and/or bombed communication infrastructure since 21 October 2023.

However, these figures are based on actual, definitive deaths registered to the systems between the hospitals. What is frightening is that the registered deaths are only those for which definitive identification has been made, at this stage.

The main reason for the figures being so regular is the reporting system and the inability of the aid agencies and medical structure in Gaza from functioning properly. There’s almost no ambulances, there are no hospitals fully functioning, most are in fact empty shells and desolate.

Many deaths may even be only reported some days after the death has occurred, based on when a body is recovered.

So some of this backs up in the reporting system too.

What I find most heinous about that Professor’s - in my opinion - thoroughly unacademic approach is that he hasn’t:

• Considered the weaponry being used
• The density of the popularion
• The blocking of water/aid/medical supplies/etc by Israel
• The destruction of communication systems
• The widespread destruction and damage to infrastructure making search and rescue almost impossible

So in short, the piece written has substantial flaws, doesn’t take in all the available knowledge we have, and is for that reason, to be dismissed.

The reason for the piece is to the usual thing of “Hamas bad, untrustworthy” when a reasonable academic would look at the situation in the round, look at the different factors influencing the whole situation, and would realise pretty quickly that though he may be right that the Hamas figures aren’t accurate, it’s not as he suggests coming from Hamas’ health ministry trying to inflate the figures, but actually a far more nuanced and complicated situation that leads us to only one actual conclusion: the death toll is in fact far, far higher, but it is not possible at this time to ascertain what it is given the restrictions Israel has placed on Gaza.

Jfc - you aren't getting it. I'm not trying to make anything simple. The argument you are making has been made, multiple times in this thread. Some have made the same argument as you, some as the other side.

I'm not saying you're wrong or right.... I'm saying that this argument has already been bad. Move along. Nobody is somehow going to read your post and change their position.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Jfc - you aren't getting it. I'm not trying to make anything simple. The argument you are making has been made, multiple times in this thread. Some have made the same argument as you, some as the other side.

I'm not saying you're wrong or right.... I'm saying that this argument has already been bad. Move along. Nobody is somehow going to read your post and change their position.

I have to ask if you are trolling me at this point.

I answered your question in good faith.

If you want a tl;dr answer (for which I know you didn’t read my post above - two minutes between me posting it and you responding? Come on) it’s pretty god damn simple. The post and article that keep being referred to is academic bunkum.

I believe the figures are higher based on my own experience and the facts we know to be true on the ground.

But the number could be anything north of 31,000 quoted to over 100,000. We simply don’t know and can’t at this stage.

Is that good enough for you?

 

[ll74]

I have to ask if you are trolling me at this point.

I answered your question in good faith.

If you want a tl;dr answer (for which I know you didn’t read my post above - two minutes between me posting it and you responding? Come on) it’s pretty god damn simple. The post and article that keep being referred to is academic bunkum.

I believe the figures are higher based on my own experience and the facts we know to be true on the ground.

But the number could be anything north of 31,000 quoted to over 100,000. We simply don’t know and can’t at this stage.

Is that good enough for you?

Even after I told you that I wasn't arguing or disputing your argument, you continue to believe that is what I'm doing.

The numbers argument is done.... Buried....nobody is changing their minds.... Entrenched

I offered up my opinion on the subject within the first 15 pages of this thread. I understand your position. If you need more then simply create a thread to discuss the Palestinian death toll numbers and discuss it there.

 

[Pad_Foot]

Why aren't our TWO hospital ships already there? Does Gaza have any hospitals now?

That's pretty simple. Why the hell do we have those ships if not for these situations?

We can't feed the people by air.

What the Hamas did? Horrible.

We can't stand back and allow more "unintended" deaths.

Biden is going to lose the election thanks to his hesitancy to do the right thing. Granted I was told that the hospital ship that was sent to LA for the pandemic was never used (I don't really believe that...) If you are worried about the Palestinians, Trump will be worse.

 

[Rightguide]

Even after I told you that I wasn't arguing or disputing your argument, you continue to believe that is what I'm doing.

The numbers argument is done.... Buried....nobody is changing their minds.... Entrenched

I offered up my opinion on the subject within the first 15 pages of this thread. I understand your position. If you need more then simply create a thread to discuss the Palestinian death toll numbers and discuss it there.

If it's information germane to the Israel/Hamas War why shouldn't it be posted here? Your thread title says so.