closed Thread

[SmokingFap]

Don't know why John Oliver hasn't showed up in my YouTube feed in so long, but this is an excellent, fairly well balanced and thoughtful take on the origins of this conflict.

 

[ll74]

Don't know why John Oliver hasn't showed up in my YouTube feed in so long, but this is an excellent, fairly well balanced and thoughtful take on the origins of this conflict.

It's been posted a couple of times in this thread already, but I support bringing more attention to it. I'd also suggest the Ezra Klein Podcast over the past two months as it has focused on multiple perspectives on the conflict.

https://pca.st/podcast/8535a4e0-3c50-0139-3339-0acc26574db2

 

[RandyRebecca]

Michael Higgins: New poll shows Palestinians are the impediment to peace — not Israel's war​

The people pushing this line are Zionist propaganda stooges, and apologists for ethnic cleansing and genocide. They must be exposed and stopped.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The people pushing this line are Zionist propaganda stooges, and apologists for ethnic cleansing and genocide. They must be exposed and stopped.

Those who sympathize with Hamas must be exposed and stopped. Israel cannot negotiate with those who want to destroy Israel.

 

[butters]

Thirteen Israelis and four Thai nationals were freed Saturday as part of a breakthrough deal between Israel and Hamas to pause fighting. Under the agreement, 39 Palestinians were expected to be released.

The release followed a delay earlier in the day over allegations from Hamas that Israel violated terms of the deal, including over claims that it had not releasing prisoners in the agreed-upon order.

The 13 Israelis citizens released Saturday range in age from 3 to 67

A U.S. official told NBC News there’s hope three Americans will be released along with a larger group of 50 hostages during the pause in fighting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...31&cvid=8def0a5a854442d4a0b89a8da481cf04&ei=2

 

[IrezumiKiss]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1728541016494338329

not looking good for Bibi these days.

 

[Lazaran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1728541016494338329

not looking good for Bibi these days.

Bibi should be ousted for corruption and incompetence.

Hamas and affiliated groups should be eradicated for obvious reasons.

*nods*

 

[ll74]

Biden still pushing for a two state solution. Netanyahu is not on board.

From Nov 17 - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gap-biden-netanyahu-gaza-future-widening-rcna96504

Less than 24 hours later, Secretary of State Antony Blinken pushed back, making it clear the U.S. would not accept any suggestion of a reoccupation of the Gaza Strip or a blockade of the enclave.

The U.S. believes there can be “no reoccupation of Gaza after the conflict, hence, no attempt to blockade or besiege Gaza,” and “no reduction in the territory of Gaza,” Blinken said during a visit to Tokyo.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Those who sympathize with Hamas must be exposed and stopped. Israel cannot negotiate with those who want to destroy Israel.

The oppressed and the colonized are the ones who get to talk self defense, not the imperialist oppressors.

Biden still pushing for a two state solution. Netanyahu is not on board.

Any chance of a two-state solution disappeared about 15-20 years ago, when Israel turned Gaza into a ghetto and started stealing large swathes of West Bank land. Israel's ruling class wouldn't even allow a sovereign Palestinian state consisting of just Gaza and the West Bank, let alone on the 1967 borders. Israel's rulers want it all, Gaza and the West Bank included. They have hardly been secretive about this.

The US administrations have let it happen. Bush briefly tried to revive the two-state solution soon after 9/11, after it (i.e. the Oslo "Peace Process") had stagnated at the time, but Bush's initial drive for a two-state solution soon gave way to the Iraq disaster and the way of sectarian conflict involving Muslims and other religions across the world, and the different factions within Islam itself (Sunni and Shia). Israel under Ariel Sharon pulling out of Gaza in 2005, and removing all Jewish settlements there, gave the impression that Israel was "doing something" towards peace, but they were intent on turning Gaza into a ghetto. In 2006, sectarian conflict within the Palestinian movement itself, encouraged by Israel, with Fatah and the "Palestinian Authority" controlling the West Bank and Hamas controlling Gaza. This became a pretext for Israel to launch regular campaigns against the Gazan population, that persists to this day.

Talk of a two-state solution now is hot air. Israel, with America's backing, has made it impossible with their policy towards the Palestinians over years and years.

 

[ll74]

The oppressed and the colonized are the ones who get to talk self defense, not the imperialist oppressors.


Any chance of a two-state solution disappeared about 15-20 years ago, when Israel turned Gaza into a ghetto and started stealing large swathes of West Bank land. Israel's ruling class wouldn't even allow a sovereign Palestinian state consisting of just Gaza and the West Bank, let alone on the 1967 borders. Israel's rulers want it all, Gaza and the West Bank included. They have hardly been secretive about this.

The US administrations have let it happen. Bush briefly tried to revive the two-state solution soon after 9/11, after it (i.e. the Oslo "Peace Process") had stagnated at the time, but Bush's initial drive for a two-state solution soon gave way to the Iraq disaster and the way of sectarian conflict involving Muslims and other religions across the world, and the different factions within Islam itself (Sunni and Shia). Israel under Ariel Sharon pulling out of Gaza in 2005, and removing all Jewish settlements there, gave the impression that Israel was "doing something" towards peace, but they were intent on turning Gaza into a ghetto. In 2006, sectarian conflict within the Palestinian movement itself, encouraged by Israel, with Fatah and the "Palestinian Authority" controlling the West Bank and Hamas controlling Gaza. This became a pretext for Israel to launch regular campaigns against the Gazan population, that persists to this day.

Talk of a two-state solution now is hot air. Israel, with America's backing, has made it impossible with their policy towards the Palestinians over years and years.

You don't want peace.

If you did, you'd want compromise that works for both parties.

 

[RandyRebecca]

You don't want peace.

If you did, you'd want compromise that works for both parties.

And allow the imperialists off the hook for their vile crimes? No way.

I'm not a pacifist. I never claimed to be.

 

[ll74]

And allow the imperialists off the hook for their vile crimes? No way.

I'm sorry that there are two parties involved and you only want one.

 

[RandyRebecca]

I'm sorry that there are two parties involved and you only want one.

I recognize that there's a class war going on, and that the capitalists want sectarian conflict to divide people from uniting against the billionaires. I also recognize that the ruling class only talk defensively when they are on the back foot, like the current situation of rising hostility towards Israel's actions across the world. They never talk defensively when things are going well for them.

 

[ll74]

And allow the imperialists off the hook for their vile crimes? No way.

I'm not a pacifist. I never claimed to be.

There won't be peace without compromise by both parties. If you want peace, you need to accept that.

 

[ll74]

I recognize that there's a class war going on, and that the capitalists want sectarian conflict to divide people from uniting against the billionaires. I also recognize that the ruling class only talk defensively when they are on the back foot, like the current situation of rising hostility towards Israel's actions across the world. They never talk defensively when things are going well for them.

Yes, always a bigger thing with you.

This is Israel and Palestine.

They need to seek peace together, regardless of whatever horseshit you throw out there.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Yes, always a bigger thing with you.

This is Israel and Palestine.

They need to seek peace together, regardless of whatever horseshit you throw out there.

Like it's retro 1993?

 

[ll74]

Like it's retro 1993?

You dont want peace. You want Israel to capitulate.

The borders of 1967 were tried and did not work...hence the following conflicts. And that was NOT entirely Israel's fault.

 

[RandyRebecca]

You dont want peace. You want Israel to capitulate.

The borders of 1967 were tried and did not work...hence the following conflicts. And that was NOT entirely Israel's fault.

You just want Israel to have it all, but want the Palestinians to "consent" to their own suppression. That's what Oslo became.

 

[ll74]

You just want Israel to have it all, but want the Palestinians to "consent" to their own suppression. That's what Oslo became.

I don't. I repeat time after time after time - compromise is needed by both parties to create peace. You don't believe Israel's needs are to be considered. I know both need to have their needs considered and provided for

New leadership is also needed.

 

[butters]

Emily Hand — the Israeli-Irish 9-year-old girl who was initially believed to have been killed by Hamas — was among the 17 hostages freed from Gaza on Saturday

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...1&cvid=ed9c8af9058144a98ebe20973836ec7f&ei=95

great news for the family, but how fucked is it that they had to go through thinking she was dead ON TOP OF her kidnapping?

 

[RandyRebecca]

I don't. I repeat time after time after time - compromise is needed by both parties to create peace. You don't believe Israel's needs are to be considered.

New leadership is also needed.

What needs? Israel want Gaza and the West Bank, and the prevention of any Palestinian state.

 

[ll74]

What needs? Israel want Gaza and the West Bank, and the prevention of any Palestinian state.

That's the thing - you don't care.

You want full capitulation without any Israeli consideration.

As long as you think that, you're not serious about peace.

 

[RandyRebecca]

That's the thing - you don't care.

You want full capitulation without any Israeli consideration.

As long as you think that, you're not serious about peace.

What was it that Albert Einstein said? The defintion of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

The only "peace" that Israel wants is to have Gaza and the West Bank, prevent any Palestinian state, and get "Palestinian leaders" to agree to a sellout of the Palestinian people. That's what has happened since 1993.

 

[ll74]

What was it that Albert Einstein said? The defintion of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

The only "peace" that Israel wants is to have Gaza and the West Bank, prevent any Palestinian state, and get "Palestinian leaders" to agree to a sellout of the Palestinian people. That's what has happened since 1993.

Yes, you hate Israel. Demonstrated.

 

[cermin]

The same PM that says Ireland has too many whites

Obviously he is afraid of the MUSLIMS that invaded his cuntry

It takes a special of hate and fear to have said this

Irish PM Ridiculed For Saying 9YO Hostage Was ‘Lost,’ And Now She’s Been ‘Found’​

View Source | November 25, 2023 7:51 pm

• Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar caused an uproar on Saturday night, after he commented on the return of nine-year-old Emily Hand, a dual resident of Ireland and Israel, who was among the 13 people freed from Hamas captivity.
• “This is a day of enormous joy and relief for Emily Hand and her family. An innocent child who was lost has now been found and returned, and we breathe a massive sigh of relief. Our prayers have been answered,” Varadkar wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
• However, no mention was made of the fact that Hand was held by Hamas terrorists for 50 days, or of the attack they perpetrated in Israel on October 7 when they abducted Hand and more than 200 other people. Varadkar’s post was reposted and criticized many times.