closed Thread

[ChloeTzang]

You are completely unaware that heads of state participate in propaganda?

Eye witness recounts horrific details of Hamas cruelty on pregnant women, children and innocent Israeli civilians'We see a pregnant lady on the floor, and we turn her around...and the stomach is wide open, there's an unborn baby connected to the cord, stabbed with a knife, and the mother shot in the head'

'Two parents, father and mother, hands tied in the back and against them two small children, hands tied in the back...each of them torched. Terrorist's were sitting and eating while they were torching the kids'

'I saw a mother holding her baby, and one bullet went through both of them together...I saw 20 children together with their hands tied in the back, and they were shot and burned in a pile'

THIS is Hamas.

 

[ChloeTzang]

This is 2nd Lt. Adar Ben Simon, 20 an IDF search and rescue officer.

On Saturday she was leading a goup of bootcamp recruits when she texted her sister: "9 terrorists coming at us. I'm with bullets in the chamber"

She hid her recruits and along with fellow commanders engaged the terrorists. She was killed in the gun battle - most of her recruits survived.

Compare her to a 20-year-old at an American college campus in the US holding a candlelight vigil for terrorists without any real understanding of what terrorism actually is.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712453968666751044

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712546886916386974

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'm pretty sure you could find some dead babies due to Israel's bombing campaign. Well, if those mattered enough to look.

And yeah... there is always plenty of corroboration for propaganda. That's one reason it works.
And bonus! If your side wins, its propaganda becomes... historical fact!

The difference being dead babies in Gaza are the result of Israeli attacks on Hamas, who are using civilians as human shields. They are NOT deliberately targeted, and they are often placed in harms way by Hamas and by their own families of death cultists.

Hamas deliberately targets babies.

There is NO comparison, and to even imply that there is puts you firmly with Hamas.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ohh, and the Israeli Air Force has just taken down Damascus International Airport

 

[ChloeTzang]

Prepping for another delivery run into Gaza. Gonna be a wild time in the old town tonight......

Bet they'll all be dancing and celebrating in the streets after these babies arrive.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Herzi Halevi: “Yahya Sinwar, the ruler of the Gaza Strip, decided on this horrible attack, and therefore he — and the entire hierarchy [of terrorists] under him — are dead men. We will attack them, we will dismantle them, dismantle their system.”

The IDF hasn't even started on Gaza yet.

 

[ll74]

I love it when people like you demonstrate how well programmed they are. You are convinced there are only two options. One must either be for Israel or Hamas. That's because no other options are presented to you and you aren't about to think for yourself when others have already done the hard work for you.

Since you'll never figure it out on your own, I'll go ahead and tell you: It's a struggle between villains. Neither side is good. One side has wildly disproportionate military power, media power, and power inside the US Government. That's the side that has trained you to think "this or that," "good guys/bad guys," "Israel/Islam." Once you've got that firmly in your head, it's just a matter of feeding you a few "news stories" about how bad the other guys are - and just like that, you accept that Israel is good, heroic, our "ally," or whatever garbage they need to feed you that day.

Enjoy your meal. I have to confess, it's entertaining watching you eat it.

You shouldn't look at it that way.

It is a choice between indiscriminate killing of all people and deloberate and targeted killing of enemy forces. It's a choice between a protection of citizens and a deliberate disregard for the safety of citizens.

If Hamas played by any rules that cared about actual Palestinians, you'd have an argument.

It's simply a false equivalency. There is no both sides here. Hamas doesn't care who they kill as long as it's mostly Israelis. Period....full stop.

 

[ChloeTzang]

What should they do? They are not a real army that has hardened bases or effective air defense capability. Are they supposed to stand in a big group out in the desert and wait to be killed? That would be kind of silly, wouldn't it?

Perhaps instead of using "human shields" they're just guys living where they live? Besides, everyone knows, especially people who fight Israel, that the human shield idea does not work. Israel will kill them without hesitation, like it always does.

Yep, so why do they do it? You can't stop them trying, but you can finish them off when they do..

Personally, I kind of look at as, Israel is a nuclear power and can start a nuclear war. It's really time for Hamas to accept this, and negotiate, trading land to Israel in return for peace. I understand this is the recommended approach these days, and really, it's Hamas fault.

And seriously, Hamas sparked this off. Israel's going to finish it, and it really doesn't matter what you and I think. We're just spectators. For now, anyhow.

 

[Dribble]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/us/hamas-funding-crypto-invs/index.html

And what social media were they using? Twitter and Facebook

 

[RoryN]

Trump attacks Israel’s Netanyahu, praises ‘very smart’ Iran-backed Hezbollah​

Former President Donald Trump made an extraordinary attack on the government of Israel Wednesday night, saying Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “let us down” by not taking part in the operation that killed a top Iranian general in early 2020 – and calling Hezbollah “very smart” hours after the Lebanon-based terror group fired missiles at Israeli troops.

During a rally in West Palm Beach, Fla., Trump, 77, blamed Israeli and US government officials for Wednesday’s sortie by the Iranian-backed jihadists, which came days after Hamas terrorists infiltrated southern Israel from the Gaza Strip, killing at least 1,300 people — including hundreds of women, children and the elderly.


https://nypost.com/2023/10/12/trump...error-group-fires-missiles-at-israeli-troops/

 

[policywank]

The stated goal of Hamas is to kill as many Jews as possible - literally kill them all and throw them into the sea. They reject outright any attempts at peace or a two state solution.

Those who see Israel with its proverbial boot on the neck of the Palestinians are not wrong. But that isn't the whole picture. The rest of the picture shows the Palistinians under the boot screaming "let me up so that I can kill you and your family." And the broader picture shows a history of the Palestinians and their Arab neighbours seeking to do just that, having launched numerous wars with the intent of wiping out Israel.

If my neighbour continually seeks to assault me and my family, in the absence of assistance from the police, I can either kill him or put him in a cage. I'm not just going to say "oh ya you're right we will just go ahead and kill ourselves now". You can't separate the fact that I put him in the cage from the fact that he did everything in his power to make sure I had no other choice.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The stated goal of Hamas is to kill as many Jews as possible - literally kill them all and throw them into the sea. They reject outright any attempts at peace or a two state solution.

Those who see Israel with its proverbial boot on the neck of the Palestinians are not wrong. But that isn't the whole picture. The rest of the picture shows the Palistinians under the boot screaming "let me up so that I can kill you and your family." And the broader picture shows a history of the Palestinians and their Arab neighbours seeking to do just that, having launched numerous wars with the intent of wiping out Israel.

If my neighbour continually seeks to assault me and my family, in the absence of assistance from the police, I can either kill him or put him in a cage. I'm not just going to say "oh ya you're right we will just go ahead and kill ourselves now". You can't separate the fact that I put him in the cage from the fact that he did everything in his power to make sure I had no other choice.

"Hamas" and "Palestinian" are not synonyms.
This post sums it up nicely.
https://i.imgur.com/5ToKooI.png

 

[icanhelp1]

Yep, so why do they do it? You can't stop them trying, but you can finish them off when they do..

Personally, I kind of look at as, Israel is a nuclear power and can start a nuclear war. It's really time for Hamas to accept this, and negotiate, trading land to Israel in return for peace. I understand this is the recommended approach these days, and really, it's Hamas fault.

And seriously, Hamas sparked this off. Israel's going to finish it, and it really doesn't matter what you and I think. We're just spectators. For now, anyhow.

It's comical how all these self appointed intellectuals always have to blur the lines with whataboutism or watering down the facts to play the ole two sided coin. Violence begets violence is the intellectual argument. That's true until someone wins. If you kick the big guy in the shins he'll turn around and knock your block off. Everyone posting here is very well aware that the Israeli/Palestinian issue is a complex issue that dates back to 1932, the Arab league and a Grand Mufti that aligned with Hitler's Third reich with a mission to exterminate Jews. God forbid they had the temerity to fight back. UN resolution 181 took into consideration that Arabs and Jews didn't get along therefore 181 attempted a two state solution Palestine/Israel.
To heap all the blame on Israel for all the animosity that exist in the region is pure revisionist history.

War of independence 1947-1949, Israel vs Egypt, Iraq, Syria, SA ( HOLY WAR )

Sinai War UK, Israel vs Egypt

Six day War, Israel vs Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Syria

These conflicts were started by the Arabs who were defeated and embarrassed. Some territory was grabbed by the Israelis but much was given back.

To confuse this Hamas issue with past history is blurring the facts. You cannot be the devil's advocate here. There are no two sides to this conflict. Hamas committed pure murder, heavily armed terrorist invaded a sovereign state and arbitrarily killed innocent men women and children. Anyone trying to blur the lines as to who is guilty here is just being plain argumentative. The appropriate response IMHO is to invade and disarm Hamas. Palestine has been since 2005 a independent state without the attachment (State) The Palestinians had an opportunity for self governance and surrendered that opportunity to Hamas. Now if anyone wants to point the finger at what state is more oppressive to palestinians look no further that Hamas then move on to Hezbollah, then Iran.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Everyone posting here is very well aware that the Israeli/Palestinian issue is a complex issue that dates back to 1932, tat state is more oppressive to palestinians look no further that Hamas then move on to Hezbollah, then Iran.

It dates back further than that. It goes back to WW1 ( and before) starting in 1915 with McMahon, further exacerbated by Arthur Balfour. This was a fuck up long before 1932 ican't.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I don't think McMahon was alive in 1915, I mean he's old, really old but I've no reason to think he's a vampire.

 

[icanhelp1]

It dates back further than that. It goes back to WW1 ( and before) starting in 1915 with McMahon, further exacerbated by Arthur Balfour. This was a fuck up long before 1932 ican't.

I was only going as far back as the Arab league, the Grand Mufti and the persecution of jews by the third reich.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I was only going as far back as the Arab league, the Grand Mufti and the persecution of jews by the third reich.

Well thats great,but the problem goes even further back. Your comment below, is like grabbing a book, opening it in the middle and reading to then end. Sure you get an idea of the plot, but you miss a whole lot of the development.

Everyone posting here is very well aware that the Israeli/Palestinian issue is a complex issue that dates back to 1932, the Arab league and a Grand Mufti that aligned with Hitler's Third reich with a mission to exterminate Jews.

Which is why I agree it's a complex issue, with it's roots in the British empire, and it is mostly due to their fuck up, that lead the rest down this road to a failed solution which is now interwoven in 10 generations, and won't ever be settled. Just one long drawn out conflict of two "groups" fighting over which religion has the rights to the plot of land they wish to live on.

And the innocents on both sides who just wish to live their lives suffer.

 

[policywank]

"Hamas" and "Palestinian" are not synonyms.
This post sums it up nicely.
https://i.imgur.com/5ToKooI.png

I agree completely. That is part of what makes the situation so complex.

But this is the challenge of conflict and war. Most of the people who get hurt are innocents who want nothing to do with the conflict. The reality that the combatants face is they must either: a) maintain such total military dominance that they can control the population of their enemies and target only the bad guys; or b) make a trade-off between the enemy's innocent civilians or their own innocent civilians.

The problem with the comparison to the KKK, Proud Boys or Moms of Liberty is that they have not taken over control of the state the way Hamas has. A more apt comparison might be Nazi Germany. There were many innocents on all sides of WW2 including Germans. The Nazi's came to power with a minority of support, but they seized control of the state and used it to seek their objectives. The Allies did not have the luxury of not harming innocent Germans while the Nazis were busy assaulting innocent British, French, Dutch etc. civilians.

Up until last weekend Israel had been able to follow option a). They maintained overwhelming military superiority which allowed them to keep their citizens safe while focussing their deterrence as much as possible on the bad guys. To a casual observer that looks bad, but it is better than alternative b) which is the unfortunate scenario that they now face.

Nobody that I know of is arguing that there aren't Palestinians who are innocent civilians. But if I were an Israeli and I was put in the position of choosing between the innocent among "us" versus the innocent among "them" I have to choose us.

By the way the Palestinians of Gaza did vote for Hamas (over the PLO) to represent them. Predictably no further elections were held. And I do not purport to know how valid that election was. But to use your example, if the citizens of the United States were to vote for the KKK party it becomes more difficult to say that they aren't at all culpable in what happens next.

 

[schism666]

It's the twisted 'intellectual' thing to do these days.

no one has done that, you dumb drunk bastard.

 

[icanhelp1]

Well thats great,but the problem goes even further back. Your comment below, is like grabbing a book, opening it in the middle and reading to then end. Sure you get an idea of the plot, but you miss a whole lot of the development.

Which is why I agree it's a complex issue, with it's roots in the British empire, and it is mostly due to their fuck up, that lead the rest down this road to a failed solution which is now interwoven in 10 generations, and won't ever be settled. Just one long drawn out conflict of two "groups" fighting over which religion has the rights to the plot of land they wish to live on.

And the innocents on both sides who just wish to live their lives suffer.

That was UN resolution 181

 

[RandyRebecca]

Israel are the occupiers, the oppressors. That's what the media don't want you to know.

 

[schism666]

 

[zipman]

History lesson time

What was bin Laden's goal?

Answer: The destruction of the United States ideals.

Now could he do that by force? Of course not. So he knew the end result. So let's look a little deeper. How can you destroy the United States? By creating dissention within America. By planting the seed...and letting Americans do it themselves. Are we "more free" than before 9-11? Are we "safer"? Is our Government more capable of governing today? Nope. Nope. Nope. And now, other country leaders see this...like Putin...like Xi...and they follow the lead...create dissention within. Let that destroy our ideals. Bin-Laden won.

Now flash forward to today. Does Hamas think they can beat Israel by force? Nope. But how can they destroy Israel? From within. Know that "peace" agreement that was on the table? Gone. Why? Because of the actions by Israel since the attack. Not because of Hamas...everyone condemns that except Iran. So every single day people that live in enclaves...they now live the rest of their lives in fear. Hamas was one of TWELVE or so different groups...each operating independently. Someone will survive. So....basically...in the scheme of things...Hamas has already won. Not because of their actions. But because of Israeli actions.

Now here is the reality. It doesn't have to end this way. But it will...because that is deep down...what Israel wants.

This attack was purposeful. It was directed st the enclaves on purpose. Not Israel. Hamas is letting Israel attack themselves from within. But I can 100% guarantee...every Israeli living in those enclaves from this day forward...will do so in fear. There is no border safe from terrorism. And the future actions of those scared citizens will be watched by the future Arab nations.

I don't know what's worse, your arrogance or your ignorance.

You're talking out of your ass. Read a little history before you try and lecture anyone.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Even after this, Black Lives Matter is not recognized as a hate group Southern Poverty Law Center.