closed Thread

[ll74]

So what you are saying is it's not okay for HAMAS and company to do the horrendous things they did but it's understandable? But it's not understandable that Israel would be so angry at these atrocities that they would retaliate? Have the Palestinians ever tried a peaceful solution, tried to work with the Israelis on hammering out an equitable peace? Or is it all on the Israelis to do that? And if so why? If I remember right way back the Israelis occupied parts of the strip and the West Bank because they had been attacked. I will freely admit that a secondary reason was an expansion of their territory. BUT that was a distant second reason. That's not acceptable, right? But doing this is?

I saw the video of filling a spring with concrete however, it was a standalone, no explanation, no context and not in a language I could understand so I really couldn't take it seriously because of that.

Of course violence begets violence. That said, there is NO excuse for expressly targeting and killing civilians for no other reason than to kill them. HAMAS should have known (and I'm sure they did but didn't care) it would lead back to retribution from Israel. Had they had any other aim than to kill Israelis they could have played on and used the world's opinion and sympathy for their cause. They didn't. they didn't even try. How many times have rockets been fired from within the Gaza Strip and were dismissed with, "Well they didn't hit anything, so it was harmless." Yeah, somebody shoots at my house I shoot back. A stray shot can kill someone just as dead as an aimed one.

Many of those who live in the strip just want to live their lives without fear. But there are enough who support such actions as taken by HAMAS that they empowered that group.

In the end there was NO excuse for the actions taken by HAMAS. NONE. All they did was stir the hornet's nest and bring it down on the innocents living in the strip. Many innocent lives were and will be lost because of their actions. And the bad part is many of those who engaged in this action will run and hide and let the innocents be the martyrs for the cause.


Comshaw

Absolutely and 100% agree with everything here. Thank you

 

[Dribble]

So what you are saying is it's not okay for HAMAS and company to do the horrendous things they did but it's understandable? But it's not understandable that Israel would be so angry at these atrocities that they would retaliate? Have the Palestinians ever tried a peaceful solution, tried to work with the Israelis on hammering out an equitable peace? Or is it all on the Israelis to do that? And if so why? If I remember right way back the Israelis occupied parts of the strip and the West Bank because they had been attacked. I will freely admit that a secondary reason was an expansion of their territory. BUT that was a distant second reason. That's not acceptable, right? But doing this is?

I saw the video of filling a spring with concrete however, it was a standalone, no explanation, no context and not in a language I could understand so I really couldn't take it seriously because of that.

Of course violence begets violence. That said, there is NO excuse for expressly targeting and killing civilians for no other reason than to kill them. HAMAS should have known (and I'm sure they did but didn't care) it would lead back to retribution from Israel. Had they had any other aim than to kill Israelis they could have played on and used the world's opinion and sympathy for their cause. They didn't. they didn't even try. How many times have rockets been fired from within the Gaza Strip and were dismissed with, "Well they didn't hit anything, so it was harmless." Yeah, somebody shoots at my house I shoot back. A stray shot can kill someone just as dead as an aimed one.

Many of those who live in the strip just want to live their lives without fear. But there are enough who support such actions as taken by HAMAS that they empowered that group.

In the end there was NO excuse for the actions taken by HAMAS. NONE. All they did was stir the hornet's nest and bring it down on the innocents living in the strip. Many innocent lives were and will be lost because of their actions. And the bad part is many of those who engaged in this action will run and hide and let the innocents be the martyrs for the cause.


Comshaw

See...that is why you....we...Israel...will lose. Myopic views.

Hamas is bad. They always have been bad. I have no issue with any country dealing with Hamas as they feel appropriate. EXCEPT...THEY SHOULD NOT USE THE EXCUSE HAMAS IS BAD to attack civilians. By doing so....we lower ourselves to the level of Hamas. That never wins

 

[Dribble]

Absolutely and 100% agree with everything here. Thank you

Well you ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. We already knew that.

Sit back and learn. This will not end well for either Hamas or Israel and unfortunately not for those innocents stuck in the middle.

 

[ll74]

Well you ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. We already knew that.

Sit back and learn. This will not end well for either Hamas or Israel and unfortunately not for those innocents stuck in the middle.

You have nothing to teach.

Hamas initiated this war....whether you believe so or not is irrelevant to me. Hamas is not doing anything to achieve the freedom of Palestinians or to make their lives better.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Interesting summation of the Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the Gaza strip

The only exports Israel allows Gaza to export are carnations and cherry peppers.
Building materials are essentially non-existent.
The blockade has been in place since Gazan voters voted a majority of Hamas to political positions.
I read the other day about the Israeli Defense Minister chuckling about Gaza being the world's largest open-air concentration camp....now I see why.

Obligatory: None of the above justifies a rocket attack on Israel, despite what the usual suspects will accuse me of supporting.

 

[Comshaw]

See...that is why you....we...Israel...will lose. Myopic views.

Hamas is bad. They always have been bad. I have no issue with any country dealing with Hamas as they feel appropriate. EXCEPT...THEY SHOULD NOT USE THE EXCUSE HAMAS IS BAD to attack civilians. By doing so....we lower ourselves to the level of Hamas. That never wins

And how do you figure Israel is attacking civilians? Yes civilians are being killed, but it appears that Israel is doing its best to root out HAMAS (who are hiding among and using as shields those civilians) and minimizing collateral damage. Did Israel not tell them where they were going to strike? And I have not seen ANY reports of Israel intentionally targeting civilians. I would be happy to peruse any links you can post though.
It appears I am not the one with the myopic view of the situation.

And a question: What would you have the Israelis do in this situation? Ignore it? Allow the UN to try to moderate? What? You've declared what you want them not to do, so what would you have them do?

Comshaw

 

[jaF0]

DO NOT piss off Israel.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...o-main-airports-in-attacks-syrian-state-media

So Benny wants a wider war so he can get his ass kicked harder?

 

[ll74]

See...that is why you....we...Israel...will lose. Myopic views.

Hamas is bad. They always have been bad. I have no issue with any country dealing with Hamas as they feel appropriate. EXCEPT...THEY SHOULD NOT USE THE EXCUSE HAMAS IS BAD to attack civilians. By doing so....we lower ourselves to the level of Hamas. That never wins

They didn't use that excuse to attack civilians. They retaliated against Hamas in response to a blatant attack on its citizen and Hamas uses Palestinian citizens to shield itself from attacks.

Israel is not targeting citizens in their military effort.

 

[icanhelp1]

Interesting summation of the Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the Gaza strip

The only exports Israel allows Gaza to export are carnations and cherry peppers.
Building materials are essentially non-existent.
The blockade has been in place since Gazan voters voted a majority of Hamas to political positions.
I read the other day about the Israeli Defense Minister chuckling about Gaza being the world's largest open-air concentration camp....now I see why.

Obligatory: None of the above justifies a rocket attack on Israel, despite what the usual suspects will accuse me of supporting.

This wasn’t just a rocket attack. These were terrorist gorillas up close and personal shooting fish in a barrel , men, women and children, looking right into their eyes as they massacred them. This wasn’t an indiscriminate landing of a missile, this was savage and brutal murder. If this happened in El Paso Texas we would want heads to role.

 

[ll74]

Yes civilians are being killed, but it appears that Israel is doing its best to root out HAMAS (who are hiding among and using as shields those civilians) and minimizing collateral damage.

This

Hamas sent rockets into a public concert venue where there were no real government targets.

Don't know how many times this needs to be said - Hamas doesn't give a shit about the Palestinian people. They only care about completely wiping Israel off the map, citizens and all

 

[jaF0]

ALL Israelis are military. There are no Israeli civilians over the age of conscription. Those under that age are already aware they will be and are being groomed for it.

 

[ll74]

ALL Israelis are military. There are no Israeli civilians over the age of conscription. Those under that age are already aware they will be and are being groomed for it.

All Israelis are required to serve in the militaryfor a period of time. That doesn't make all Israelis in the military all the time.

Hamas was not targeting specific targets

 

[LLCox]

So Benny wants a wider war so he can get his ass kicked harder?

Remains to be seen.

 

[Dribble]

History lesson time

What was bin Laden's goal?

Answer: The destruction of the United States ideals.

Now could he do that by force? Of course not. So he knew the end result. So let's look a little deeper. How can you destroy the United States? By creating dissention within America. By planting the seed...and letting Americans do it themselves. Are we "more free" than before 9-11? Are we "safer"? Is our Government more capable of governing today? Nope. Nope. Nope. And now, other country leaders see this...like Putin...like Xi...and they follow the lead...create dissention within. Let that destroy our ideals. Bin-Laden won.

Now flash forward to today. Does Hamas think they can beat Israel by force? Nope. But how can they destroy Israel? From within. Know that "peace" agreement that was on the table? Gone. Why? Because of the actions by Israel since the attack. Not because of Hamas...everyone condemns that except Iran. So every single day people that live in enclaves...they now live the rest of their lives in fear. Hamas was one of TWELVE or so different groups...each operating independently. Someone will survive. So....basically...in the scheme of things...Hamas has already won. Not because of their actions. But because of Israeli actions.

Now here is the reality. It doesn't have to end this way. But it will...because that is deep down...what Israel wants.

This attack was purposeful. It was directed st the enclaves on purpose. Not Israel. Hamas is letting Israel attack themselves from within. But I can 100% guarantee...every Israeli living in those enclaves from this day forward...will do so in fear. There is no border safe from terrorism. And the future actions of those scared citizens will be watched by the future Arab nations.

 

[ll74]

History lesson time

What was bin Laden's goal?

Answer: The destruction of the United States ideals.

Now could he do that by force? Of course not. So he knew the end result. So let's look a little deeper. How can you destroy the United States? By creating dissention within America. By planting the seed...and letting Americans do it themselves. Are we "more free" than before 9-11? Are we "safer"? Is our Government more capable of governing today? Nope. Nope. Nope. And now, other country leaders see this...like Putin...like Xi...and they follow the lead...create dissention within. Let that destroy our ideals. Bin-Laden won.

Now flash forward to today. Does Hamas think they can beat Israel by force? Nope. But how can they destroy Israel? From within. Know that "peace" agreement that was on the table? Gone. Why? Because of the actions by Israel since the attack. Not because of Hamas...everyone condemns that except Iran. So every single day people that live in enclaves...they now live the rest of their lives in fear. Hamas was one of TWELVE or so different groups...each operating independently. Someone will survive. So....basically...in the scheme of things...Hamas has already won. Not because of their actions. But because of Israeli actions.

Now here is the reality. It doesn't have to end this way. But it will...because that is deep down...what Israel wants.

This attack was purposeful. It was directed st the enclaves on purpose. Not Israel. Hamas is letting Israel attack themselves from within. But I can 100% guarantee...every Israeli living in those enclaves from this day forward...will do so in fear. There is no border safe from terrorism. And the future actions of those scared citizens will be watched by the future Arab nations.

You suck as a teacher.

The actions of Hamas are wrong. Period.

Israel is the adult in the room and will make every effort to avoid civilian deaths. Hamas will put every one of their friends and neighbors in the line of fire to hide from the coming retribution.

There is no both sides here. Hamas is completely in the wrong. Israel will work to destroy Hamas who deserves to be destroyed. If there is any way that this can result in better things for the Palestinians, it won't be because of Hamas.

 

[Comshaw]

History lesson time

What was bin Laden's goal?

Answer: The destruction of the United States ideals.

Now could he do that by force? Of course not. So he knew the end result. So let's look a little deeper. How can you destroy the United States? By creating dissention within America. By planting the seed...and letting Americans do it themselves. Are we "more free" than before 9-11? Are we "safer"? Is our Government more capable of governing today? Nope. Nope. Nope. And now, other country leaders see this...like Putin...like Xi...and they follow the lead...create dissention within. Let that destroy our ideals. Bin-Laden won.

Now flash forward to today. Does Hamas think they can beat Israel by force? Nope. But how can they destroy Israel? From within. Know that "peace" agreement that was on the table? Gone. Why? Because of the actions by Israel since the attack. Not because of Hamas...everyone condemns that except Iran. So every single day people that live in enclaves...they now live the rest of their lives in fear. Hamas was one of TWELVE or so different groups...each operating independently. Someone will survive. So....basically...in the scheme of things...Hamas has already won. Not because of their actions. But because of Israeli actions.

Now here is the reality. It doesn't have to end this way. But it will...because that is deep down...what Israel wants.

This attack was purposeful. It was directed st the enclaves on purpose. Not Israel. Hamas is letting Israel attack themselves from within. But I can 100% guarantee...every Israeli living in those enclaves from this day forward...will do so in fear. There is no border safe from terrorism. And the future actions of those scared citizens will be watched by the future Arab nations.

I'm sorry but you are WAY off base. Did Bin Laden win? Not hardly. Yes our country is in chaos but not because of him or his actions. And he's dead while we still have the opportunity to get things right. A piss poor win for him if you ask me.

And yes the Israelis will be fearful from now on, but they will also armor their borders, take a harder line on groups like HAMAS AND never, ever allow their guard down again.

We, the UN and other countries will try to broker peace, but HAMAS has assured us that will be a very difficult, if not impossible task. HAMAS didn't start this with the cunning intent and a master plan you attribute to them. They did it to kill Israelis and ensure that any peace talks will be moot, nothing more. HAMAS and groups like them are described best by a word coined by Romans about Jews a few thousand years ago, Zealots. They are narrow in view and focus and will never give an inch to those they see as their enemies.

Comshaw

 

[Dribble]

I'm sorry but you are WAY off base. Did Bin Laden win? Not hardly. Yes our country is in chaos but not because of him or his actions. And he's dead while we still have the opportunity to get things right. A piss poor win for him if you ask me.

And yes the Israelis will be fearful from now on, but they will also armor their borders, take a harder line on groups like HAMAS AND never, ever allow their guard down again.

We, the UN and other countries will try to broker peace, but HAMAS has assured us that will be a very difficult, if not impossible task. HAMAS didn't start this with the cunning intent and a master plan you attribute to them. They did it to kill Israelis and ensure that any peace talks will be moot, nothing more. HAMAS and groups like them are described best by a word coined by Romans about Jews a few thousand years ago, Zealots. They are narrow in view and focus and will never give an inch to those they see as their enemies.

Comshaw

You are very very wrong. You should read what our military has written about this. It was years ago. I will look...but I can't promise finding it since I do not remember the exact source except it was one of our branches. But it is there...just as everything I post is. Facts. Not propaganda.

Need more proof? Read the headlines right now. Hamas "burned" children. What does that make you think? Then...you dig deeper...find the pictures are kids caught in the crossfire between Israeli forces and Hamas...and the car they were trying to escape from burst in flames because....you know...bullets and gas tanks....they kinda do that. Could have been Hamas bullets. Could have been Israeli bullets. But people can't separate Hamas from the Palestinians. That's shows their choice of ignorance

 

[Dribble]

I know Avery's heritage. So I understand her anger. Curious Com...what's yours?

 

[ll74]

Iran no longer gets it's $6billion back.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...lease-iran-6-billion-prisoner-swap-rcna120135

 

[Dribble]

Three choices. That is all there is.

1) Hamas got lucky. (Unlikely)

2) The entire World intelligence community failed. ( Highly unlikely)

3) Hamas has their shit together way more than people want to admit. (Highly likely)

If the third option is true...why did they choose the targets they did...and not something more personal to the Israeli nation itself? Could it be the historical significance associated with those enclaves? People need to put the emotion away and look at facts...or at least possibilities. Americans have gotten dumb because of our media and politics. God gave us a brain. This is not "just because Hamas hates Israel". They could have done far worse.

 

[Dribble]

Iran no longer gets it's $6billion back.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...lease-iran-6-billion-prisoner-swap-rcna120135

No....they don't get it back right now. Qatar still has the funds. This is politics...nothing more. A trade was made. A shitty trade. But a trade none the less. Iran will get their money....plus interest

 

[ll74]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712436143231279155

 

[ll74]

Three choices. That is all there is.

1) Hamas got lucky. (Unlikely)

2) The entire World intelligence community failed. ( Highly unlikely)

3) Hamas has their shit together way more than people want to admit. (Highly likely)

If the third option is true...why did they choose the targets they did...and not something more personal to the Israeli nation itself? Could it be the historical significance associated with those enclaves? People need to put the emotion away and look at facts...or at least possibilities. Americans have gotten dumb because of our media and politics. God gave us a brain. This is not "just because Hamas hates Israel". They could have done far worse.

Hamas wants to kill Jews.

You continue to make it about more than that when it's not.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It sounds like you're very confused.
BLM does not support Hamas.

Adding - supporting Palestinians is not the same thing as supporting Hamas.

Adding - not wanting Palestinian citizens to be caught in the crossfire is not against Israel.

BLM disagrees with you

 

[ll74]

BLM disagrees with you

View attachment 2279454

What part of that supports Hamas?