closed Thread

[vietato]

Absolutes are tough, but this seems fair. Hamas broke the previous ceasefire by not allowing the Red Cross in for hostages.

Both parties must be sincere and the international community needs to be on board fully with the agreement.

I bet you believe in the tooth fairy as well

 

[ll74]

I bet you believe in the tooth fairy as well

You don't believe that Palestinians are human beings.

Why the fuck do you think your opinion matters to me?

 

[Lazaran]

NO country should have to take them in, they are bitching and moaning and certain groups terrorising because the deal for a homeland for them was trashed. If the two state solution was implemented, they would have their own home...but it wasn't, and here we are.

Do you think that a two state solution is all the Palestinians want???



Tragically, imho, the Israelis have logically concluded, after decades of wars, terror attacks, gray zone warfare, the use of the womb as a weapon of conquest, etc, that the Palestinians, etc, will only be satisfied when Israel and Jews are no more, and thus, Israel has adopted a "them or us" attitude that is now guiding their policies.



"Free Palestine" and "From the river to the sea" have a very specific intention behind them: They are calls for the genocide of Israel.



If the Palestinians really want a two state solution and peaceful coexistence with Israel, then the Hamas animals must either surrender or be destroyed, the hostages must be released, and the Palestinians must abandon all the above mentioned acts of aggression and genocidal chants.



IF that ^ were to happen, and Israel continued to expand settlements and visit their own genocidal agenda upon the areas designated for a Palestinian state and the Palestinian people, then absolute condemnation, sanctions, and other punitive actions directed at Israel would be warranted from the U.S., etc,

I want Hamas gone too, but I'm sad to say that I've had to work with the Israelis in the past and the Israeli policy I see here is to undermine any aid going into Gaza that it can. No, I don't think a Palestinian lives who the Israelis on the right think need to live.

I agree.

I also believe, as I elaborated upon in the other comment I responded to in this post, that it goes both ways: I don’t think an Israeli lives who Palestinians of any stripe think needs to live.

That ^ needs to change.



It would be suicidal for Israel to change their offensive and defensive stance unless and until there is a sea change in attitudes and actions from the Palestinians, etc, imho.

 

[KeithD]

Do you think that a two state solution is all the Palestinians want???



Tragically, imho, the Israelis have logically concluded, after decades of wars, terror attacks, gray zone ware fare, the use of the womb as a weapon of conquest, etc, that the Palestinians will only be satisfied when Israel and Jews are no more, and thus, Israel has adopted a "them or us" attitude that is now guiding their policies.



"Free Palestine" and "From the river to the sea" have a very specific intention behind them: They are calls for the genocide of Israel.



If the Palestinians really want a two state solution and peaceful coexistence with Israel, then the Hamas animals must either surrender or be destroyed, the hostages must be released, and the Palestinians must abandon all the above mentioned acts of aggression and genocidal chants.



IF that ^ were to happen, and Israel continued to expand settlements and visit their own genocidal agenda upon the areas designated for a Palestinian state and the Palestinian people, then absolute condemnation, sanctions, and other punitive actions directed at Israel would be

I can't really agree with that. I've worked with a lot of Palestinians. Most of those are so well situated outside of the region now that they don't want to go back. Several I worked with have settled in the Washington, D.C., area, working as translators. That doesn't mean they don't resent what they had to leave behind uncompensated and their experience of being forcefully and militarily expelled. Those who want to stay talk less about anything but coexistence than Israelis I've talked with are willing to accept. The Palestinians have been persecuted and cowed so much since 1948, that their expectations genuinely seem lower. There's also a split between Arab Palestinians and Christian Palestinians, the latter being less belligerent to the Israelis. People don't seem to realize that a big chunk of the Palestinian community is Christian.

 

[Lazaran]

I can't really agree with that. I've worked with a lot of Palestinians. Most of those are so well situated outside of the region now that they don't want to go back. Several I worked with have settled in the Washington, D.C., area, working as translators. That doesn't mean they don't resent what they had to leave behind uncompensated and their experience of being forcefully and militarily expelled. Those who want to stay talk less about anything but coexistence than Israelis I've talked with are willing to accept. The Palestinians have been persecuted and cowed so much since 1948, that their expectations genuinely seem lower. There's also a split between Arab Palestinians and Christian Palestinians, the latter being less belligerent to the Israelis. People don't seem to realize that a big chunk of the Palestinian community is Christian.

Yeah, I was mainly referring to the controlling majority (?) of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, etc. ("etc" being: Iranians, Hezbollah, Houthis, etc).



Now to be sure, Israel has its own controlling majority (?): A controlling majority that would warrant the same condemnation I currently reserve for the Hamas animals (etc) IF the Palestinians were to cease all hostilities and genocidal chants, and then that Israeli controlling majority proceeded to engage in genuine acts of genocide, rather than the current justified response to the existential threat posed by the Hamas animals, etc.

ALL of that ^ is highly unlikely to occur, imho.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Do you think that a two state solution is all the Palestinians want???

I've been very clear on what I think needs to happen. Release of the hostages. Ceasefire on both sides. Leaders of both sides to face the ICJ. A new proper division of land, not Resolution 181. But an actual re-negotiation, involving all affected ME countries. Including Iran. It might even require some neighbours to cede some territory.

What is happening now is unacceptable and has to end, or be ended.

Not every Palestinian wants to eradicate Israel. I am not saying there isn't a faction, but there is also a fraction of Israelis who want to eradicate the Palestinians.

 

[Lazaran]

I've been very clear on what I think needs to happen. Release of the hostages. Ceasefire on both sides. Leaders of both sides to face the ICJ. A new proper division of land, not Resolution 181. But an actual re-negotiation, involving all affected ME countries. Including Iran. It might even require some neighbours to cede some territory.

What is happening now is unacceptable and has to end, or be ended.

Not every Palestinian wants to eradicate Israel. I am not saying there isn't a faction, but there is also a fraction of Israelis who want to eradicate the Palestinians.

Good luck with that ^…



I do want to clarify, as I did to KeithD, that I was referring to the controlling majority(?) of Palestinians, etc, that want to genocide Israel: It doesn’t really matter what impotent / cowed Palestinians MIGHT do if they ever summoned the courage to reject the Hamas animals and their genocidal agenda. The Hamas animals and their supporters ARE the controlling majority, so everything is a nonstarter as far as a comprehensive negotiated solution / peace: A hostage for prisoner swap (greatly in the Hamas animal’s favor), accompanied by a temporary ceasefire, is currently the ONLY part of negotiations that I see having even a minute chance of happening.

Also:

Suggesting that those Hamas animals would willingly submit themselves to the ICJ after their October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation is laughable.

It’s equal laughable that the Israelis should willingly submit themselves to the ICJ for responding to the Hamas animal’s October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation. (Although, I suspect the Israelis would submit to the court if pressed.)

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Yeah, I was mainly referring to the controlling majority (?) of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, etc. ("etc" being: Iranians, Hezbollah, Houthis, etc).



Now to be sure, Israel has its own controlling majority (?): A controlling majority that would warrant the same condemnation I currently reserve for the Hamas animals (etc) IF the Palestinians were to cease all hostilities and genocidal chants, and then that Israeli controlling majority proceeded to engage in genuine acts of genocide, rather than the current justified response to the existential threat posed by the Hamas animals, etc.

ALL of that ^ is highly unlikely to occur, imho.

“Current justified response”

Do fuck off. 33,000 dead, 75,000 injured and an entire group of 2.3 million people starving, with all infrastructure destroyed is not a justified response to 7 October 2023.

How much more ghoulish can you pro genocide lot get?

 

[KeithD]

In the intell world, there's an operation referred to as a "planned accident." The Netanyahu folks in Israel don't want any aid getting into Gaza. They consider it all as support directly for Hamas and don't see anyone in all of this except for Hamas. As time goes on, this looks increasingly like a planned accident to serve Netanyahu goals. If it walks like a duck . . .

 

[snailspace]

Not every Palestinian wants to eradicate Israel. I am not saying there isn't a faction, but there is also a fraction of Israelis who want to eradicate the Palestinians.

How can you tell the one who want to kill jews from.the others

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

In the intell world, there's an operation referred to as a "planned accident." The Netanyahu folks in Israel don't want any aid getting into Gaza. They consider it all as support directly for Hamas and don't see anyone in all of this except for Hamas. As time goes on, this looks increasingly like a planned accident to serve Netanyahu goals. If it walks like a duck . . .

I would go further Keith. They want to kill or displace and kill, all of the Palestinians in Palestine. They want all of the land and are willing to commit genocide to do it.

The evidence is mounting so high - we will be discussing this for decades and asking how we allowed them to do this, after the holocaust of the 1940s.

And to me it is becoming abundantly clearer, day by day: the Israelis making these decisions see the holocaust as cover to carry out their own genocide.

 

[ll74]

How can you tell the one who want to kill jews from.the others

Coming from you, that is a disingenuous question

 

[snailspace]

Coming from you, that is a disingenuous question

What's the answer

 

[Rightguide]

How stupid can one person be?

1. Killed over 33,000 civilians
2. Destroyed all their homes, places of worship, medical infrastructure, roads, farms, water wells, and more
3. Maimed over 75,000
4. Displaced 2.3 million
5. Now targeting aid workers

Where do those numbers come from, Hamas?

 

[ll74]

I heard a good quote today, probably not from the originator though unsure -

"the fog of war is dense"

 

[Rightguide]

I heard a good quote today, probably not from the originator though unsure -

"the fog of war is dense"

Purposely so.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Where do those numbers come from, Hamas?

You are the densest, most stupid person on this forum.

The Hamas run health ministry in Gaza is exactly like any health ministry in the rest of the world.

If the numbers are good enough for:

• The United Nations
• Aid Agencies the world over
• The United States
• The United Kingdom
• Even the fucking IDF

Then you, an uneducated idiot should take the numbers as a conservative estimate of the death toll.

It really is that fucking simple, you ghoul.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

How can you tell the one who want to kill jews from.the others

Shouldn’t fucking matter. International humanitarian law is there for a reason, to make us all abide by agreed minimum standards to prevent the kind of genocide that is currently occurring.

You do not kill an idea with killing. You kill it with kindness and peace, equal rights, support and a change in viewpoint through decades of educatio.

Israel has in six months probably turned the whole of Gaza and the West Bank from being partially pro Hamas to almost entirely pro anything that gets them out of the brutal, murderous, apartheid regime that is Israel (including Hamas).

How can you be so thick and not see this? The Netanahyu govt is purposely doing this. Constant enemy, constant war of attrition, take all of the land, kill all of the Palestinians with impunity.

That’s happening on our collective watch as a planet. We are complicit. You should be ashamed and calling for a ceasefire. Israel will do more with positive actions than constant killing.

But at this point with the damage they’ve inflicted, do they really believe they haven’t just created their own enemy for centuries to come?

More to the point, will anyone else care about Israel after this? I doubt it, bar the States, who look increasingly unhinged.

 

[rainsol]

Shouldn’t fucking matter. International humanitarian law is there for a reason, to make us all abide by agreed minimum standards to prevent the kind of genocide that is currently occurring.

You do not kill an idea with killing. You kill it with kindness and peace, equal rights, support and a change in viewpoint through decades of educatio.

Israel has in six months probably turned the whole of Gaza and the West Bank from being partially pro Hamas to almost entirely pro anything that gets them out of the brutal, murderous, apartheid regime that is Israel (including Hamas).

How can you be so thick and not see this? The Netanahyu govt is purposely doing this. Constant enemy, constant war of attrition, take all of the land, kill all of the Palestinians with impunity.

That’s happening on our collective watch as a planet. We are complicit. You should be ashamed and calling for a ceasefire. Israel will do more with positive actions than constant killing.

But at this point with the damage they’ve inflicted, do they really believe they haven’t just created their own enemy for centuries to come?

More to the point, will anyone else care about Israel after this? I doubt it, bar the States, who look increasingly unhinged.

You can fucking blame your self all you want asshole, but the truth be told Israel needs to kill every fucking member of Hamas and get it over with. Listen to that screwball Biden and Israel will be fighting this war in 100 years, just take a look at the withdrawal job he did in Afganistan. Better yet, ask the UN what they are doing to stop the Russian Invasion and genoicide in/of Ukraine. Go post your useless platitudes in a Russian forum and you will join Alexei Navalny. You have no idea of what genocide is. The prime minister is doing what Biden refuses to do, protect his Nation.

 

[ll74]

You can fucking blame your self all you want asshole, but the truth be told Israel needs to kill every fucking member of Hamas and get it over with. Listen to that screwball Biden and Israel will be fighting this war in 100 years, just take a look at the withdrawal job he did in Afganistan. Better yet, ask the UN what they are doing to stop the Russian Invasion and genoicide in/of Ukraine. Go post your useless platitudes in a Russian forum and you will join Alexei Navalny. You have no idea of what genocide is. The prime minister is doing what Biden refuses to do, protect his Nation.

B
D
S

 

[Lazaran]

“Current justified response”

Do fuck off. 33,000 dead, 75,000 injured and an entire group of 2.3 million people starving, with all infrastructure destroyed is not a justified response to 7 October 2023.

How much more ghoulish can you pro genocide lot get?

It’s the justified response the Hamas animals hoped to elicit with their October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation.

The Hamas animal’s plan worked.

Blame Israel all you want, but this was the Hamas animal’s plan all along.

Is the Hamas animal’s plan working too well???



Side note:

Everybody has a plan…



Also:

Man plans, the universe laughs…

 

[vietato]

“Current justified response”

Do fuck off. 33,000 dead, 75,000 injured and an entire group of 2.3 million people starving, with all infrastructure destroyed is not a justified response to 7 October 2023.

How much more ghoulish can you pro genocide lot get?

fake numbers

there are ZERO dead or injured

my sources are as accurate as are yours

 

[1984X2024]

In 1984x2024

This is meant seriously! Unhinged Rutgers prof says it’s ‘homophobic’ to note that Hamas brutalizes LGBT people.

 

[icanhelp1]

“Current justified response”

Do fuck off. 33,000 dead, 75,000 injured and an entire group of 2.3 million people starving, with all infrastructure destroyed is not a justified response to 7 October 2023.

How much more ghoulish can you pro genocide lot get?

The drumbeat of genocide actually comes from Iran, Hezbollah, HAMAS, Syria, and others. HAMAS being a proxy of Iran actually carried through an attempted genocidal campaign. Israel should never capitulate. Palestinians are not this pure peace loving people without sin. They teach their children to hate Jews. HAMAS needs to go, the sooner the better. If aid can be securely administered then by all means do it. My question is how do you keep humanitarian supplies out of the hands of HAMAS. Supplies that end up in the hands of HAMAS only prolongs the conflict.

Women and children caught up in an asymmetrical conflict especially one where their leadership uses innocence as shield always suffer unjustly, that was a gamble HAMAS took to attain global sympathy and its working.

 

[Lazaran]

In the intell world, there's an operation referred to as a "planned accident." The Netanyahu folks in Israel don't want any aid getting into Gaza. They consider it all as support directly for Hamas and don't see anyone in all of this except for Hamas. As time goes on, this looks increasingly like a planned accident to serve Netanyahu goals. If it walks like a duck . . .

Totally agree… A “planned” accident by the Israelis is certainly plausible.

The Israelis could certainly be counting on an increasingly dire situation in Gaza bringing about some breakthrough in negotiations for the hostages release. The Israelis also could have concluded that as long as the Hamas animals had a steady supply of food, fuel, medicine, etc, that they would hold out indefinitely, maximizing the window for a wider conflict to erupt.



Meanwhile:

The POSSIBLY “planned” accident by the Israelis MAY have been designed to elicit a response, but the Hamas animal’s OBVIOUSLY “planned” October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation was DEFINITELY designed to elicit the Israeli response we are seeing. The Hana’s animals “planned” to do something so heinous that the Israelis would have no choice but to invade Gaza. (with all the inevitable accompanying tragic consequences which the Hamas animals hoped would trigger a regional / worldwide Jihad.)



Side note:

Everybody has a plan…



Also:

Man plans, the universe laughs.