Clinical explainations

[ICM8781]

"Fap" is a somewhat silly, slang term, while "vas deferens" is clinical and anatomical. If the narrator is the sort of person who's going to use "vas deferens," he's not also going to use "fap." If he's the kind of person who uses "fap," he's not going to use "vas deferens." If you insist on using "vas deferens," then you should use the term "masturbate." Make it clear that your narrator is the sort of person that speaks this way.

Even though I'm getting tired of getting hung up on the example, "Fap" in the context of example is the sound being heard in the bathroom. "Masturbate" doesn't exactly echo of the walls, though I guess it would be silly if it did.

I mean it is a silly word, and that's kind of intentional. The dudes whacking it in the bathroom with a girl right outside. It's meant to convey an irreverence and humor to the situation. Obviously you don't know the rest of the story and where it goes and how it flows with the story.

 

[ICM8781]

I'd have trouble keeping a straight face if I saw any of those three in a story; they sound like something a 15-year-old would say when trying to sound dirty.



You don't need a word for "vas deferens" here, because that isn't the vas deferens you're writing about.

The vas deferens does its thing before orgasm, quietly loading sperm into the prostatic urethra, where it mixes with other components of semen. It does contract to move the sperm along, but AFAIK that contraction isn't perceptible.

When you come, the semen is already past the vas deferens. The contractions that you notice are the bulbospongiosus muscle, along with another muscle whose name I'm not sure of. I would be reluctant to spring "bulbospongiosus" on readers, so probably best just to leave it as "the muscles in his penis" or something similar.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/10/heres-how-ejaculation-actually-works/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejaculatory_duct

Again, we're getting hung up on the example and not the dilemma. And while I too like to correct everyone's knowledge, let me explain. This process happens from the beginning of orgasm to the end of ejaculation. That's why you can feel contractions before you ejaculate. That's also why you get "blue balls" when you are interrupted mid orgasm before you ejaculate. It "preload"ed, as your citation describes, but didn't empty.

 

[ElectricBlue]

So yeah, I guess when you don't know what the vas defrens are, it doesn't exactly add anything at all.

Mate, I know what they are, where they are, and how to spell them. I'm illustrating how ridiculous the use of such clinical descriptions are, in erotica. Did I check my precise anatomy? Okay, no I didn't, but they're down there somewhere if cum gets through.

(EDIT - and now I've read the encylopedic and comprehensive journey through vivisection from Bramblethorn, which further illustrates another reason why surgical descriptions and erotica don't mix very well.)

"Be still, my beating heart."

"Okay, thus stopping the cycle of contraction of the heart muscle which began with an electrical impulse in the sinoatrial node, which serves as the normal pacemaker for the heart."

"Ooo, you're so romantic," she sighed, as the doctor took charge of his instrument.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I wouldn't use any of those unless you want to achieve a comic effect. I'm not sure why one would ever need to use "vas defrens" in an erotic story. I've never once thought of the phrase during sex, and I can't imagine doing so.

If you give an example it might be easier to respond meaningfully.

I thought Vas Defrens was the Dothraki capitol in Game of Thrones.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I use the wording that fits in with the character's perspectives. I suppose if I wrote about a couple of medical professionals getting it on I might use more clinical terms, but I try to make my language appropriate to my characterization.

 

[ICM8781]

Mate, I know what they are, where they are, and how to spell them. I'm illustrating how ridiculous the use of such clinical descriptions are, in erotica. Did I check my precise anatomy? Okay, no I didn't, but they're down there somewhere if cum gets through.

"Be still, my beating heart."

"Okay, thus stopping the cycle of contraction of the heart muscle which began with an electrical impulse in the sinoatrial node, which serves as the normal pacemaker for the heart."

"Ooo, you're so romantic," she sighed, as the doctor took charge of his instrument.

Yeah, that's my point. I get that some people don't like it. But there are mechanics I want to describe that I don't see how else to do it without using clinical terminology. And since I'm talking about the mechanics of, knowing what they are, not somewhere whereabouts they are, is kind of important. At least more important than spelling it correctly on a forum post.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I thought Vas Defrens was the Dothraki capitol in Game of Thrones.

that’s a good one

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yeah, that's my point. I get that some people don't like it. But there are mechanics I want to describe that I don't see how else to do it without using clinical terminology. And since I'm talking about the mechanics of, knowing what they are, not somewhere whereabouts they are, is kind of important.

Ah yes, but erotic? I do think your apple crate is limited to the size of your own two feet, and you might be on your own with this dedication to the mechanics. I might be wrong.

Still, this zeal for a cause is how Howard Hughes got Jane Russell onto all those posters, so maybe there's something I missed .

Carry on .

 

[ICM8781]

I use the wording that fits in with the character's perspectives. I suppose if I wrote about a couple of medical professionals getting it on I might use more clinical terms, but I try to make my language appropriate to my characterization.

I guess that makes sense. A lot of my writing is small erotic encounters with very little build up of background character, but I'll keep it mind on my larger pieces.

 

[ICM8781]

Ah yes, but erotic? I do think your apple crate is limited to the size of your own two feet, and you might be on your own with this dedication to the mechanics. I might be wrong.

Still, this zeal for a cause is how Howard Hughes got Jane Russell onto all those posters, so maybe there's something I missed .

Carry on .

I love your hypocrisy.

You: It's your style write how you want to write.

Also you: No one likes what you're trying to do.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I use the wording that fits in with the character's perspectives. I suppose if I wrote about a couple of medical professionals getting it on I might use more clinical terms, but I try to make my language appropriate to my characterization.

I see your point, but I sincerely doubt - and hope - that those two doctors don’t gasp to each other about ‘erectile tissue’ and ‘spasmodic impulses’. To quote Robbie Burns, a man’s a man, for a’ that.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I love your hypocrisy.

You: It's your style write how you want to write.

Also you: No one likes what you're trying to do.

Lighten up. You asked a question, you got a set of responses, including a light-hearted dig to illustrate a (contrary) point of view. The drift of this thread is that most of us here don't think the mechanics of sex are particularly erotic, as you are describing them.

You differ from the most of us, and that's fine, but don't turn this into the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[ICM8781]

Let me see if I can use a better a better example.

I love how a woman reacts when I force my cock through her contracting pelvic floor muscles as she is mid orgasm.

However, I get that describing it that way isn't exactly the sexiest way to do that. I fall to the clinical terms because, unless you want to go with, how someone else described, a grade-schooler trying to talk dirty there really isn't a sexy alternative.

I mean seriously. Love muscle, orgasmic spasm?

I probably will fall to just dropping the term entirely as the reading probably understands what I'm talking about despite not naming, like a previous suggestion. At the same time, It doesn't display the visual and viseral image I want.

 

[ICM8781]

Lighten up. You asked a question, you got a set of responses, including a light-hearted dig to illustrate a (contrary) point of view

I did lighten up. Hence my light-hearted dig at what you think constructive criticism is.

My issue isn't the insults or the jokes, its that I know I'm not expressing what I mean accurately for people to understand what I'm trying to ask. Trust me, you didn't get it. I don't mean to make it sound like I don't appreciate everyone's comments, I am just trying to steer the comments to what is useful to me.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

I love your hypocrisy.

You: It's your style write how you want to write.

Also you: No one likes what you're trying to do.

That is not an example of hypocrisy.

If EB had written, in effect, that no one likes the mixing of highly specific clinical terminology with crude colloquialisms, and then had himself written "he fapped until his vas deferens contracted", THAT would be hypocrisy.

There's no hypocrisy in acknoweldging any given writer's freedom to write for themselves regardless of the audience's reception, while also asserting one's own opinion in regard to the writer's style.

Also - a hint from me to you, accusing someone of hypocrisy and also implying that we can't understand your point due to our own ignorance regarding reproductive anatomy isn't the most useful way to get feedback you might genuinely find useful.

 

[ICM8781]

There's no hypocrisy in acknoweldging any given writer's freedom to write for themselves regardless of the audience's reception, while also asserting one's own opinion in regard to the writer's style.

A) he wasn’t asserting his opinion. He was assuming how everyone else felt it. The hypocrisy is telling me to do what I want, and telling me I shouldn’t do something. Yes, that is hypocrisy.

B) that isn’t what I’m talking about anyway. So how about you take your own advice and not discuss matters in which you are ignorant.

C) Fapping, (which is not how I was using that word, further showing YOUR ignorance) until the vas defrens contract is exactly how it works. As someone cited for me, though don’t think he actually read himself, the vas defrens is the tube, muscles, and duct connecting the ductus defrens to the urethra, which will contract at the beginning of the orgasm turning the seminal fluid into semen, and depositing it at the base of the urethra to be ejaculated out by the pelvic floor.

Finally) this isn’t about the example I gave. The example I gave is just one of a bunch of times I find myself in the situation where I can’t find the words to describe the actions without using incredibly unsexy clinical terms. I don’t want to use clinical terms. Let alone using clinical terms with crude slang words.

I realize I’m not explaining my dilemma properly. I’ve said so twice isn’t his thread. I’m trying to express it properly, but people are hung up on the example I gave instead of dilemma I’m asking about.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I have a muse that helps me out telling me how sexy my stories and concepts are. One of her complaints is that when I start to get into the details of things I can start to use clinical terms than can ruin the mood I presented. Words like urethra, vas defrens, and pelvic floor.

I love going into intense detail about what happens to the human body during an orgasm, but at times I can't help getting clinical. I mean, there is no sexy slang term for the vas defrens. There are only so many sexy ways to say erection. Boner and stiffy isn't really one of them.

How do you as a writer overcome that hurdle? I have had some success describing the feeling rather than describing the actions, but I still love talking about the mechanics of everything.

Ohhhh I love the mechanics. The challenge is, as you pointed out, s combination of I guess clinical and non clinical terminology that works, which can be done but you need an excellently detailed reference list and the ability to merge them seamlessly without throwing the reader out of the story. The words also have to be relatable to the character. An 18 year old college student dancing on a table in a Friday night wet T-shirt competition isn’t going to be thinking clinically descriptive terms when she’s looking at some dudes dick. On the other hand if the dude that dicks her is a med student, maybe he’s thinking that. But its not how normal readers think in real life so it goes back to that other discussion thread on plausiblity. How do you get that terminology worked in, keep it plausible and remain in the story. Your biggest challenge isn’t the terminology, it’s the characters heads and getting the reader to believe in your characters and how they’re thinking and talking. Solve that one and you’re most of the way there. Geeks, med school geeks, the dorky ones you run out the door at the other end of the bar to avoid when you see them walking in, that’s what I’m thinking.

 

[ICM8781]

Ohhhh I love the mechanics. The challenge is, as you pointed out, s combination of I guess clinical and non clinical terminology that works, which can be done but you need an excellently detailed reference list and the ability to merge them seamlessly without throwing the reader out of the story. The words also have to be relatable to the character. An 18 year old college student dancing on a table in a Friday night wet T-shirt competition isn’t going to be thinking clinically descriptive terms when she’s looking at some dudes dick. On the other hand if the dude that dicks her is a med student, maybe he’s thinking that. But its not how normal readers think in real life so it goes back to that other discussion thread on plausiblity. How do you get that terminology worked in, keep it plausible and remain in the story. Your biggest challenge isn’t the terminology, it’s the characters heads and getting the reader to believe in your characters and how they’re thinking and talking. Solve that one and you’re most of the way there. Geeks, med school geeks, the dorky ones you run out the door at the other end of the bar to avoid when you see them walking in, that’s what I’m thinking.

That’s my dilemma. Thank you for actually identifying it. I don’t think in clinical terms. I don’t imagine the word when I’m writing. I’m imagining the objects. I’m imagining the sexiness, and I know I’m a minority now, of the semen traveling from the balls to the dick. And I’m imagining the entire process, not just that crude description. But with the colorful words we have created for all of these sexual parts, I’m really finding it hard to describe what I’m imagining when there aren’t colorful words to describe it.

 

[NotWise]

That’s my dilemma. Thank you for actually identifying it. I don’t think in clinical terms. I don’t imagine the word when I’m writing. I’m imagining the objects. I’m imagining the sexiness, and I know I’m a minority now, of the semen traveling from the balls to the dick. And I’m imagining the entire process, not just that crude description. But with the colorful words we have created for all of these sexual parts, I’m really finding it hard to describe what I’m imagining when there aren’t colorful words to describe it.

I try to describe how it feels rather than describing the physiology. That alone is difficult. I don't think there are many simple, specific descriptions for how a man's cock (or a woman's clitoris) "feels" other than excited/exciting, or for the whole mind and body sensation of orgasm.

There are other reactions that can be used to describe the experience. Being blinded by an orgasm is one. I also think "petite mort" is a good description, though I use it sparingly.

I do use "spasm" (though not "orgasmic spasm") and refer to contractions because I think people of both genders feel those.

 

[blozo]

The vas defrens doesn't do what your text implies it does. You are describing the action of the ejaculatory ducts.
The vas only contains sperm cells and a few key nutrients. The sperm flow through it from the epididimus to the ampulla at a steady rate, 24 hours a day.

 

[Hypoxia]

IMHO:

A formal report should contain correct clinical language. Get it right.
A parody-satire could contain clinical language. It needn't be correct.
An erotic description should not be too clinical, for any value of 'too'.
Clinical or frothy, right or wrong -- fit the language to the story.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

That does help me understand what they were trying to say, but the example doesn't exactly convey the mechanics that I wanted to describe. My dilemma is I want to describe the mechanics but don't see how without falling back on the clinical terms.

I guess my biggest hangup is this. When a story expresses where a hand is on someones breasts, almost all women know what that feels like. The don't need the writer to tell them how to feel. When a writer describes the lips of a woman on a man's cock, I don't need a cheesy metaphor to describe how that feels. I know how it feels. That's why you don't see it that often in these stories.

I don't really want some cheesy metaphor to describe something the feeling of the action. The reader knows how that action feels, they just need to know what's going on. Spoon feeding them emotions seems platitudal and patronizing.

Aha! Herein lies part of your possible misconception. Your readers don’t know how the action feels until you show and tell them.

Not all people experience physical stimulus the same way. What some people find highly pleasurable, others find irritating, uncomfortable or painful. You’re spot on that cheesy spoonfeeding is pandering and pedestrian. But leading emotional descriptions are quite necessary.

Using your example of women’s breasts: many women’s breasts and nipples are uncomfortably sensitive to touch. Consider: “She watched him grab and squeeze her breast. He licked her nipple. She whimpered.” Without any emotional clarification, the reader doesn’t know whether the touch was pleasant or painful.

Thus, writing “She watched as his hand squeezed from the lower to the upper quadrant of her breast. He let go and circled his fingertip around her areola. He twisted her nipple clockwise between his finger and thumb. She whimpered,” is clinical anatomy but doesn’t clarify how the touch feels to the female character. If the feeling is unknown but the body parts involved are described with great technicality, the result can be jarring. Descriptive emotions and feelings don’t have to be pandering or flowery or cheesy, but some are needed to direct the reader.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Aha! Herein lies part of your possible misconception. Your readers don’t know how the action feels until you show and tell them.

Not all people experience physical stimulus the same way. What some people find highly pleasurable, others find irritating, uncomfortable or painful. You’re spot on that cheesy spoonfeeding is pandering and pedestrian. But leading emotional descriptions are quite necessary.

Using your example of women’s breasts: many women’s breasts and nipples are uncomfortably sensitive to touch. Consider: “She watched him grab and squeeze her breast. He licked her nipple. She whimpered.” Without any emotional clarification, the reader doesn’t know whether the touch was pleasant or painful.

Also, even for the same woman, sensitivity varies a LOT from one day to the next. And in most genres, probably half your readers aren't women.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Also, even for the same woman, sensitivity varies a LOT from one day to the next. And in most genres, probably half your readers aren't women.

*nods vigorously*

 

[SimonDoom]

A) The hypocrisy is telling me to do what I want, and telling me I shouldn’t do something. Yes, that is hypocrisy.

It's not hypocrisy; it's nuance. And it's also real.

You're free to do as you wish. Everyone here acknowledges that. You're not getting paid. There are no rules limiting your word choices. You should write stories in a way that fulfills whatever goals you want to fulfill by publishing them here.

But you asked the question in the original post, so people are giving you their opinion. EB gave you his. I agree with it, and with others here.

I have a fetishy fondness for a level of anatomical detail beyond what some prefer, so I can sympathize with what you want to do. I'm just not sure it's doable. Sometimes you have to let your babies go. This may be one of those cases.