Circumcision

[Etoile]

I'm dog-sitting right now for some friends, a couple who owns an 8-month old beagle mix. The girl wants to get the dog neutered, the guy refuses. Come ON.

 

[radepor]

There you ladies go again

My wife (deceased) insisted on getting our/her cat (a male) spayed.

I couldn't bear it and refused; she abducted him and had the procedure performed.

I loved that cat. That thing moved like a jet-aircraft before and Cessna afterward.

Neither of us ever forgave her.

I'm dog-sitting right now for some friends, a couple who owns an 8-month old beagle mix. The girl wants to get the dog neutered, the guy refuses. Come ON.

 

[Etoile]

My wife (deceased) insisted on getting our/her cat (a male) spayed.

I couldn't bear it and refused; she abducted him and had the procedure performed.

I loved that cat. That thing moved like a jet-aircraft before and Cessna afterward.

Neither of us ever forgave her.

I'm tempted to take the dog in while I'm dog-sitting, but I'm not his owner, I can't do that. I wouldn't infringe upon someone's "parenthood" like that.

It wasn't always the standard to alter animals, but now it is. I guess years of Bob Barker telling us to have our pets spayed and neutered did something.

 

[FurryFury]

Given that millions of cats, dogs and other pets are killed each year because they are unwanted, I'm all for spaying and neutering. I also advocate very strongly to get "rescue" pets rather than buy from breeders.

 

[radepor]

Alright! All Right! All Wrong!

I admit, I'm a wuss. In addition to all my other faults, I'm a "birder" (bird watcher/bird enthusiast/bird photographer).

Domestic cats are literally "death" on birds and, reluctantly, I agree population control is needed. I recommend neutering; spaying is a non-starter.

Ok. ladies; let's hear it.

Given that millions of cats, dogs and other pets are killed each year because they are unwanted, I'm all for spaying and neutering. I also advocate very strongly to get "rescue" pets rather than buy from breeders.

 

[whosyourmama29]

my thoughts about it

Is circumcision torture? A lifestyle/culture? A medically preventative precaution? Sexually, sensuously superior?

By the way, I'm neither circumcised nor a member of a group that practices circumcision. To my astonishment, I recently discovered I'm part of the 25% minority of adult, U.S. males who ARE NOT.

Despite my best efforts, I simply cannot remain objective about this subject; I'm appalled by the concept. However, I'm admittedly ignorant about the subject.

What is it: Culturally acceptable sadism? A test of faith? Necessary for a healthy life?

Human's evolved along with every other life-form on this planet; are there any other examples where a species ritually mutilates sexual organs of their young?

I have 3 boys 2 are circumsized 1 isn't. i Don't remember much of what happened when oldest had it done but when i seen what my second went threw i was not putting my 3rd threw the pain and torture. The main purpose i had the oldest 2 boys done was cause my dad wasn't circumsized and when he was 9 he was in a bicycle accident and hurt it so they had to circumsize it then and from what i understood it was very painful. now i prefer no circumsizing at all.

 

[whosyourmama29]

Given that millions of cats, dogs and other pets are killed each year because they are unwanted, I'm all for spaying and neutering. I also advocate very strongly to get "rescue" pets rather than buy from breeders.

yes same here spay and neuter is totally different that circumsizing

 

[Cattypuss]

WTF has spaying and castration of pets got to do with circumcision? (And btw radepor, you can only spay a female animal, not a male)

 

[FurryFury]

yes same here spay and neuter is totally different that circumsizing

So true.

 

[FurryFury]

WTF has spaying and castration of pets got to do with circumcision? (And btw radepor, you can only spay a female animal, not a male)

Conversations on here have always meandered.

 

[Cattypuss]

Fair enough

 

[radepor]

You're rite, I'm wrong

I hope you appreciate how much that hurt.

The first 59 years of my life I never made a mistake; once, I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

WTF has spaying and castration of pets got to do with circumcision? (And btw radepor, you can only spay a female animal, not a male)

 

[Etoile]

Huh? Cattypuss is right, you spay females and neuter males. What's to be hurt about? Just say the animal was altered if you're not sure which is appropriate.

 

[radepor]

Don't diminish my life-altering experience!

I'm trying to fully enjoy the experience of being wrong for the first time in 60 years

On the other hand, perhaps my mental faculties are so meager that decline isn't perceptible even to me

Huh? Cattypuss is right, you spay females and neuter males. What's to be hurt about? Just say the animal was altered if you're not sure which is appropriate.

 

[Etoile]

I'm trying to fully enjoy the experience of being wrong for the first time in 60 years

On the other hand, perhaps my mental faculties are so meager that decline isn't perceptible even to me

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about?

 

[walkingeagle]

Not knowing where to jump in here--
I'm circumsised
our cat is spayed

And being circumsised and nuetered are very different!--

 

[pinkflames]

...
And being circumsised and nuetered are very different!--

You'd hope the doctor performing the circumcision knows the difference.

 

[Cattypuss]

You'd hope the doctor performing the circumcision knows the difference.

... or, indeed, the vet! I'd be mightily pissed off if I sent my dog in for castration and he came back with the full complement of testicles but a shortened outer sheath!

 

[EustaceMcGargle]

Much better uncircumcised. Much more sensation.

The question in my mind is, how would you know?

 

[Firebrain]

Nope, sorry. Infants do not retain memory of the pain. Suggesting that an infant suffers because of the circumcision doesn't fly with me. The newborn brain is not sufficiently developed to retain or process the circumcision. That may not justify the circumcision itself, but you cannot say that "infant suffering is worse" for an aesthetically pleasing result than adults are. (And that is what you said - choosing to suffer is better than making an infant suffer.)

As for the rest of it, you want me to bust out the cochlear implant argument? Because I'm happy to do so, but it might make you contradict your current feelings.

Babies don't remember pain, no, but pain makes them produce cortisol (the stress hormone). Various studies on excessive cortisol production in infants are now suggesting that it has negative pyschological influence later on in life. These studies tend to focus on young infants who are left to cry alone for long periods of time or those who are abused/neglected (many people in the UK liken circumcision to abuse, since there is no genuine medical reason for it). I'm willing to bet that having a sensitive part of the body lopped off with no painkillers means some serious cortisol production. (Infants also can't regulate cortisol production like adults can - as you say, they can't reason themselves out of it. That's why it's more of an issue).

I'd be interested to know how many of the people who've had their boys circumcised would also consider it for their girls. It's a different part of the body but the same principle.

 

[Etoile]

Babies don't remember pain, no, but pain makes them produce cortisol (the stress hormone). Various studies on excessive cortisol production in infants are now suggesting that it has negative pyschological influence later on in life. These studies tend to focus on young infants who are left to cry alone for long periods of time or those who are abused/neglected (many people in the UK liken circumcision to abuse, since there is no genuine medical reason for it). I'm willing to bet that having a sensitive part of the body lopped off with no painkillers means some serious cortisol production. (Infants also can't regulate cortisol production like adults can - as you say, they can't reason themselves out of it. That's why it's more of an issue).

I'd be interested to know how many of the people who've had their boys circumcised would also consider it for their girls. It's a different part of the body but the same principle.

Oh dear, I hate when people quote me from six months ago...I have to remember what I was talking about!

I do have to disagree heartily with the bolded part, though. As we have been through over and over in this thread, removing a girl's clitoral hood really is not the same - culturally, physically, religiously, emotionally, historically - as removing a boy's foreskin. At all.

 

[shewantsmore]

Personally i dont think babies should be circumcised,adults have a choice they dont and alot of drs esp in the uk wont do it anyway.My hubby is circumcised and i think it looks good but i dont think it makes alot of difference either way,just the appearence is different.

 

[Firebrain]

Oh dear, I hate when people quote me from six months ago...I have to remember what I was talking about!

I do have to disagree heartily with the bolded part, though. As we have been through over and over in this thread, removing a girl's clitoral hood really is not the same - culturally, physically, religiously, emotionally, historically - as removing a boy's foreskin. At all.

I'm aware of the obvious differences between male and female circumcision - hence mentioning principle, rather than practice.

I did read all of the thread, but the point still stands; since the principle for male circumcision is at best, flimsy - the same could be said for that of women. You're still removing a part of an infant's body without genuinue good cause. This would stand whether it was a finger or a tooth; evolution intended it to be there. It's all pain, it's all traumatic for the small person who doesn't understand. To call it a "bit of skin" trivialises it quite frighteningly. In an adult male, it's actually a fair amount of skin - it's proportionately the same for a baby.

 

[00Syd]

I just watched this video last night, and highly recommend it for anyone with any sort of opinion on circumcision, or anyone without any opinions on circumcision, or anyone at all. The video is from The Vice Guide to Sex video series, and the description for this particular video is: "We take a look at Imbalu, the (sort of) ancient Ugandan practice of mass teenage circumcision."

Part 1:
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-sex/imbalu-circumcision-party-1-of-2

Part 2:
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-sex/imbalu-circumcision-party-2-of-2

It was fascinating to watch this incredibly important ceremony where young men willingly submit to being circumcised, while standing, without anesthesia, in order to become a man. And they don't flinch, not even a little. Wow.

 

[where]

I do have to disagree heartily with the bolded part, though. As we have been through over and over in this thread, removing a girl's clitoral hood really is not the same - culturally, physically, religiously, emotionally, historically - as removing a boy's foreskin. At all.

if you are talking about the removal of the clitoral hood why is it not the same? Is it because in the West we accept male genital mutilation and sneer and look down on female genital mutilation? Unless it's labioplasty of course, so we can all have cunts like porn stars...