Circumcision

[Etoile]

Sorry Etoile, didn't realize I was being absurd.

Overall, I have a better understanding of the subject and I'm quite gratified that so many responses to my thread have been thoughtful and restrained.

I have a much greater appreciation for the differences we have and the similarities were share. Don't misunderstand, my opinion of circumcism hasn't changed; but I respect those with different opinions.

Thank you so much for coming back and responding! I was thinking you'd forgotten about this thread. What a lovely response you gave too. Nice to see you're learning new things and opening your mind.

 

[Samuelx]

Is circumcision torture? A lifestyle/culture? A medically preventative precaution? Sexually, sensuously superior?

By the way, I'm neither circumcised nor a member of a group that practices circumcision. To my astonishment, I recently discovered I'm part of the 25% minority of adult, U.S. males who ARE NOT.

Despite my best efforts, I simply cannot remain objective about this subject; I'm appalled by the concept. However, I'm admittedly ignorant about the subject.

What is it: Culturally acceptable sadism? A test of faith? Necessary for a healthy life?

Human's evolved along with every other life-form on this planet; are there any other examples where a species ritually mutilates sexual organs of their young?

CIRCUMCISION IS TORTURE. I'M UNCUT, AS ARE MANY MEN I KNOW. THEY DON'T HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF IT. NOT AS LONG AS THEY'RE CLEAN WITH THEIR BODIES. BEING UNCUT IS COOL. CIRCUMCISION IS MUTILATION AND SHOULD BE BANNED. AMEN.

 

[Etoile]

It's worth noting that cut cocks are considered to be the norm or more beautiful as evidenced by the complete lack of uncut dildos. Of all the realistic dildos I have ever seen, not one has resembled an uncut dick. They're all meant to look cut.

 

[Samuelx]

It's worth noting that cut cocks are considered to be the norm or more beautiful as evidenced by the complete lack of uncut dildos. Of all the realistic dildos I have ever seen, not one has resembled an uncut dick. They're all meant to look cut.

Um, sorry but....so what ? Dildos are machines, men with uncut dicks are human beings. One can change a machine, but altering a human being's body before he's old enough to decide for himself whether he would want such a thing or not....that seems like a human rights violation to me.


Also, I have MANY jewish friends who are UNCIRCUMCISED.


www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org

 

[Calabama]

It's worth noting that cut cocks are considered to be the norm or more beautiful as evidenced by the complete lack of uncut dildos. Of all the realistic dildos I have ever seen, not one has resembled an uncut dick. They're all meant to look cut.

Sadly, the societal ideal of beauty is seldom anything most REAL human beings can or would aspire to look like. So cut cocks are 'considered to be more beautiful' the same way 5'9" blond's with fake tits, liposuction, and a bit of airbrushing are considered to be 'more beautiful'.

 

[Etoile]

I am neither passing judgment nor stating an opinion. All I'm saying is that I've never seen a dildo resembling an uncut dick, and from that I infer what people prefer in a penis.

 

[xander1083]

Circumcision has different meaning for each country, Some don't try it because of their religion but in the Asian countries it was for the sake of cleanliness.

 

[Cattypuss]

I prefer circumcised cocks. I think they look nicer and I like the added hygiene thing.

 

[Julie_in_the_north]

Having read all the arguments here - and via many other platforms over the years - I am still yet to hear a convincing reason to cut off part of a baby's penis. The hygiene arguments are very subtle - maybe it has slight advantages here and there, but not life-saving ones - nothing which justifies removing an important part of somone's body, without their permission.

I've occasionally known women make the facile remark that circumcised penises look nicer - as if it were justified to hack off an ultra-sensitive piece of the male anatomy for female aesthetic pleasure.

 

[Etoile]

I've occasionally known women make the facile remark that circumcised penises look nicer - as if it were justified to hack off an ultra-sensitive piece of the male anatomy for female aesthetic pleasure.

Whoa now. In a world of collagen injections, breast implants, stiletto heels, butt implants, nail salons, makeup aisles, etc. - you really want to talk about that? Having a little bit of skin cut off when you're a baby is nothing compared to what women put themselves through every day, as adults, for male aesthetic pleasure.

 

[Julie_in_the_north]

Whoa now. In a world of collagen injections, breast implants, stiletto heels, butt implants, nail salons, makeup aisles, etc. - you really want to talk about that? Having a little bit of skin cut off when you're a baby is nothing compared to what women put themselves through every day, as adults, for male aesthetic pleasure.

But cosmetic surgery is voluntary - neo-natal circumcision is not.

And I don't think that make-up/stilettos, and so-on, is as unpleasant as having a very sensitive part of one's genitals being cut off. The foreskin is rather more significant than just a bit of skin - it's not a toenail. It's a living item of anatomy.

 

[Etoile]

But cosmetic surgery is voluntary - neo-natal circumcision is not.

And I don't think that make-up/stilettos, and so-on, is as unpleasant as having a very sensitive part of one's genitals being cut off. The foreskin is rather more significant than just a bit of skin - it's not a toenail. It's a living item of anatomy.

Let me reiterate the part about something being done to an infant versus being done to an adult. You're seriously suggesting that a woman preferring the look of something a man has no memory of is unacceptable, but a man preferring the look of something a woman works hard for and suffers pain for every day is not?

 

[Julie_in_the_north]

Let me reiterate the part about something being done to an infant versus being done to an adult. You're seriously suggesting that a woman preferring the look of something a man has no memory of is unacceptable, but a man preferring the look of something a woman works hard for and suffers pain for every day is not?

It's exactly the fact that it's done to an infant - who has no choice in the matter. Moreover the procedure is irreversible, whereas wearing high heels is not. What adults do to themselves for cosmetic reasons takes place at their behest - it is not done *to* them.

 

[Etoile]

It's exactly the fact that it's done to an infant - who has no choice in the matter. Moreover the procedure is irreversible, whereas wearing high heels is not. What adults do to themselves for cosmetic reasons takes place at their behest - it is not done *to* them.

There are thousands of men who have reversed their circumcisions and are quite happy with the results.

But I still fail to see where your argument that "it's horrible for women to find this aesthetically pleasing" manages to remain standing considering what women do every day to please men. The idea that women should feel guilty for preferring cut cocks is just nonsense. That's what you put forth by calling it facile and suggesting that it's justification, you know.

I really do not care about whether a penis has a foreskin or not, it's up to the individual's partner whether they like it or not; I do not have a male partner so I really don't care. But I take offense at the suggestion that circumcised men are suffering more to satisfy women than women are to satisfy men.

 

[gregor2001us]

There are thousands of men who have reversed their circumcisions and are quite happy with the results.

But I still fail to see where your argument that "it's horrible for women to find this aesthetically pleasing" manages to remain standing considering what women do every day to please men. The idea that women should feel guilty for preferring cut cocks is just nonsense. That's what you put forth by calling it facile and suggesting that it's justification, you know.

I really do not care about whether a penis has a foreskin or not, it's up to the individual's partner whether they like it or not; I do not have a male partner so I really don't care. But I take offense at the suggestion that circumcised men are suffering more to satisfy women than women are to satisfy men.

And those "thousands" of men who have successfully restored would much much rather have been given the opportunity to have decided for themselves, would much much rather have thier original equipment back than put up with the next best alternative of a restored foreskin, and would sue the pants off the perpetrators that did this to them if they could.

It is not about who is suffering more. No one should suffer at all. But an adult choosing to suffer is far better than making an infant suffer because that parent has been misinformed by biased and incomplete information. Or that a child's rights are ignored in preference to a parents feelings.

The issue is that RIC is wrong from a medical viewpoint, a legal viewpoint, and a moral viewpoint. There is a great deal of law and argument in our society supporting that children have a right to bodily intergity and genital integrity.

The problem is that for some reason (suppression of sex? lack of security about our bodies? Religion? Fear of masturbation? Other?) our society as a whole has it ingrained that circumcision is no big deal and that the foreskin has no real role to play in sexual feeling and function. Both have been shown to be wrong.

His body, his decision.

The foreskin isn't the wrapper....it's the candy!

Regards

 

[Etoile]

It is not about who is suffering more. No one should suffer at all. But an adult choosing to suffer is far better than making an infant suffer because that parent has been misinformed by biased and incomplete information. Or that a child's rights are ignored in preference to a parents feelings.

Nope, sorry. Infants do not retain memory of the pain. Suggesting that an infant suffers because of the circumcision doesn't fly with me. The newborn brain is not sufficiently developed to retain or process the circumcision. That may not justify the circumcision itself, but you cannot say that "infant suffering is worse" for an aesthetically pleasing result than adults are. (And that is what you said - choosing to suffer is better than making an infant suffer.)

As for the rest of it, you want me to bust out the cochlear implant argument? Because I'm happy to do so, but it might make you contradict your current feelings.

 

[HarlotMinx]

I know this may sound stupid but I'm not even entirely sure that circumcision IS painful for the child at birth. Considering what the human body goes through in the process of being born a babies body has to handle the pain in some form. I know that my own mother took no pain medication during labor to abate the pain so there was none in my system and when it came time to do the circumcision I didn't even utter a sound much less cry. I'm just not convinced that that close to birth the child experiences pain the same way.

Now in reference to Etoile's argument, I couldn't agree more, I think if men want to get on their high horse about social pressure for abortions then they first need to start recognizing the inherent pressure society puts on women to keep changing their body WELL after being a infant. It's easy to disregard it as just being their choice but there is a very real pressure placed on them and when it's done since birth is it a choice or does it become conditioning to a extent?

 

[FurryFury]

I think babies experience pain but even if they didn't, which I find extremely unlikely, I don't see why you'd want to go cutting.

 

[00Syd]

The whether babies feel pain or not argument is irrelevant because (at least in the U.S.) little baby boys are given a local anesthetic and so do not feel a thing during the circumcision. Plus, they are not developed enough at such a young age to be aware that they even have a body, much less that something is happening to it (when they can't feel it, which they can't, due to the anesthetic.).

 

[Cattypuss]

I've occasionally known women make the facile remark that circumcised penises look nicer - as if it were justified to hack off an ultra-sensitive piece of the male anatomy for female aesthetic pleasure.

Not quite sure of your use of "facile" there. I even checked the dictionary to make sure the word didn't have a meaning I was unaware of.

I was simply stating a fact. And I didn't state it with any implication that my preference justifies anything.

I prefer circumcised cocks. So shoot me.

 

[00Syd]

Not quite sure of your use of "facile" there. I even checked the dictionary to make sure the word didn't have a meaning I was unaware of.

I was simply stating a fact. And I didn't state it with any implication that my preference justifies anything.

I prefer circumcised cocks. So shoot me.

How dare you have an aesthetic preference and attraction to a certain type of body part!! You, and all the men who prefer giant tits, women who prefer muscular arms, and guys who prefer red heads should be shot! In public! Made an example of!

 

[HarlotMinx]

Not quite sure of your use of "facile" there. I even checked the dictionary to make sure the word didn't have a meaning I was unaware of.

I was simply stating a fact. And I didn't state it with any implication that my preference justifies anything.

I prefer circumcised cocks. So shoot me.

I especially prefer my dildos circumcised! So help me, if I ever date a uncircumcised dildo I'm going to take a knife to that sucker whether it wants it or not!

How dare you have an aesthetic preference and attraction to a certain type of body part!! You, and all the men who prefer giant tits, women who prefer muscular arms, and guys who prefer red heads should be shot! In public! Made an example of!

Exactly my opinion! Long live Ingsoc!

 

[Cattypuss]

yah!!!

 

[rosco rathbone]

Is circumcision torture? A lifestyle/culture? A medically preventative precaution? Sexually, sensuously superior?

By the way, I'm neither circumcised nor a member of a group that practices circumcision. To my astonishment, I recently discovered I'm part of the 25% minority of adult, U.S. males who ARE NOT.

Despite my best efforts, I simply cannot remain objective about this subject; I'm appalled by the concept. However, I'm admittedly ignorant about the subject.

What is it: Culturally acceptable sadism? A test of faith? Necessary for a healthy life?

Human's evolved along with every other life-form on this planet; are there any other examples where a species ritually mutilates sexual organs of their young?

Uncircumcised dog. Ere this day is done I will smite thee with the edge of the sword, till not one is left who pisseth against the wall.

 

[HarlotMinx]

Uncircumcised dog. Ere this day is done I will smite thee with the edge of the sword, till not one is left who pisseth against the wall.

Oh hey, I hadn't seen you recent profile pic, kind of fitting after my comment. It just occurred to me the irony of a practice being accused of being torture as a negative statement.... on a BDSM forum. Can't we use a more hip insult like circumcision is so "vanilla".