Circumcision....discuss?

[TheOlderGuy]

Young initiates kill circumcision nurse
Monday, January 3, 2005 Posted: 11:10 AM EST (1610 GMT)

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (Reuters) -- A group of young South African men taking part in coming of age rituals due to include circumcision turned on their male nurse and killed him, an official said on Monday.

Sizwe Kupelo of the Eastern Cape provincial health department said the men aged 18 to 25 beat the man to death with sticks at the site of their initiation ceremonies in Port Elizabeth on Friday.

"He was attacked by about 20 initiates who assaulted him, and he later died," Kupelo said.

He said the attack followed complaints by the men that they were not being properly looked after during their initiation ceremonies, but did not elaborate.

The nurse had been in charge of caring for the men ahead of their circumcision.

No arrests have been made yet, Kupelo said.

A number of South African clans including the Ndebele, Sotho and Xhosa send teenage boys and young men into the bush for up to eight weeks to learn their clan's cultural and moral values and undergo coming of age ceremonies, including circumcision.

In recent years, the practice of circumcision has come under scrutiny as dozens of boys have been accidentally killed or mutilated by amateur elders who have seized on the tradition as a way to make money.

Kupelo said in the Eastern Cape at least 10 young men had died during the current initiation period, which began in December.

Chairman of the Eastern Cape House of Traditional Leaders, Chief Ngangomhlaba Matanzima, condemned the attack, which he said showed there were "serious problems" around initiations.

 

[ucsjm38]

GROWING UP INTACT IN A CUT HAPPY SOCIETY

I really enjoyed reading all of your posts. I'm a married intact male with 2 children 1 boy (intact) and 1 girl. Reading all of the post brought back allot of fond memories growing up and dealing with having a foreskin. I tell you it was difficult growing up without a father around and especially difficult growing up with a brother 2 years younger than me who was circumcised. Not to mention living in the USA where during my time period all my friends had been circumcised. Talking about not fitting in. I grew up like most boys curious and masturbated. All I can say is that having a foreskin really made it fun! When I got into high school I started to seriously date and the women I met were not at all familiar or understood what I had or how to use it to our benefit. In time I got extremely frustrated because I knew I liked masturbating and paying full attention to my foreskin. Foreskin play was definitely erotic and full of pleasure for me. All of the women had no clue what so ever. They pulled the foreskin out of the way and left it laying behind the glans during the entire sexual encounter. I felt so impelled by these experiences that it put all the joy and pleasure I got from my foreskin to make myself go out and see a doctor about performing a circumcision on me when I turned 18. Just as I made the appointment and went to all of my follow up exams and secured my scheduled circumcision date. Low and behold I met a wonderful full blooded American girl who rocked my world! Not only was she smart, but beautiful and willing to experiment! Although she had been experienced with other men and all have been circumcised. I was her first intact partner. She took the time to learn and become familiarized with what I had and at the same time paid close attention to my needs and feelings. This was wonderful and I was in heaven! Not only did she learn how to pleasure me, she also learned how it could pleasure the both of us at the same time. This became shocking to both of us. We then understood the purpose of the foreskin and why we were born with it. Between the time I met her and the time I was due in for my circumcision, I decided not to show up. She is my wife today and we love each other. She had mentioned that no matter who she would have ended up with she knew she would have enjoy either circumcised or an intact partner. But if she had a choice and knows what she has experienced. She definitely would chose intact over a circumcised penis on her partner.

 

[Mansa Musa]

Circumcision is essentially a useles procedure. With proper hygiene, an intact man will have the same level of health as a cut man. The problem in the equation is the hygiene part. There are far too many American parents who are unwilling to teach their children about proper genital hygiene, whether it's due to squeamishness about the implied interest in child sexuality or other factors.

 

[TumbledLove]

There doesn't seem to be any real argument for cutting off a natural part of the penis. While it's possible, using some twisted logic, that there might be some kind of health benefit, it still does not justify doing it to someone without their consent (babies).

 

[TumbledLove]

I wonder if I could get a foreskin transplant?

 

[Sappholovers]

Uncut

I am uncut, and I much prefer it that way: first, it's easier to masturbate, as the skin can be used as a form of lubricant, slipping back and forth over the head. Some women who have never been with a man with an uncut cock have found it amusing to play with the extra skin.

Unless there are religious reasons, I see circumcision as unnecessary surgery. Washing an uncut cock is no more difficult than washing hands, and it is no more likely to smell than fingers on a hand.


__________________

 

[chowchow]

If I were gay and did that sort of thing, yeah Id prefer an uncut cock. It would be a prerequisite frankly...lol

Ive seen girls claim to think uncirx are ok but you could tell they were bullshitting.


Not to mention....from what Ive seen on dvd's and such the skins always moving on an uncut dick. Like if shes jacking himm off and he's hard she is actually moving the skin around the cock, not stroking the skin itself. What this translates into I dont know, but it sure looks weird.

And how many uncut guys have tossed it out infront of a girl who has only seen cut cock. How uncomfortable that must be.

Its like....WTF is That Thing!

lol

AS for the skin moving up and down, it means we don't need as much lube - i often jerk off without any at all.

I've been with plenty of girls who have never seen an uncirced b4 mine, and instead of being disgusted, most were very curious and started playing with it (this is not a bad thing ). Its easier for them to give handjobs - or so they say.

As for head jobs, all girls I've been with have loved giving head and I have not had 1 single complaint. However, i doubt this had anything to do with whether my dick had 'moving skin' or a 'metallic taste' to it. Instead I assume it's because I try to make sex enjoyable and fun, and will go to lengths to pleasure my partner too regardless of her breast size, nipple puffiness, labia hangage and/or lopsidedness, clit size, pubic neatness etc.

However I do agree that my dick does look ugly compared to circumcized penises. But dicks are pretty ugly in general and as long as its not hideous, I've had ladies tell me it adds to the sense of masculinity especially if its long and/or fat.

This is an interesting thread by the way. Keep those opinions flowing.

 

[Sappholovers]

The virtues of an uncut penis

Yes, the original skin--the natural skin--makes masturbation easier for an uncut man. My lover also likes sneaking a finger under the skin to feel around the head of the penis: it feels something like having a lover crawl completely underneath the covers of a bed on a cold night to go down on you.

In terms of aesthetics: I would never consider my uncut cock to be ugly. It's like looking at an unpeeled banana or a wrapped present. It delays the moment of revelation. It offers the possibility for a little more surprise. Besides, the extra skin just seems to disappear when the cock becomes aroused. If anything, in my eyes, a cut cock looks like a bald headed man--something's missing

.

 

[Mia62]

Re: The virtues of an uncut penis

If anything, in my eyes, a cut cock looks like a bald headed man--something's missing

.

The only thing missing is your brain.

Bald men are fucking sexy.

 

[chowchow]

Re: Re: The virtues of an uncut penis

The only thing missing is your brain.

Bald men are fucking sexy.

this guy even looks like a penis .
http://www.metachimp.com/media/meet/bald.jpg

http://www3.estart.com/stores/media/bald.jpg
Dimitri Moore.

 

[lapinova]

My current playmate is European, and the first uncut man i've played with. He was actually rather surprised when i told him that- he asked me if i had only dated Jewish guys before! He seemed rather surprised when i told him that probably about 4 out of 5 guys at least here are done.
i rather like his cock- it's different because he is so sensitive to the touch i have to be a little gentler than i'm used to, and he likes to be stroked a little differently than i'm used to, but since every man is different anyway... it's not really a problem, you know?
i never gave much thought to what it would be like to play with an uncut cock or what differences there might be. When we went to bed the first time and i got my first good look at it, i can't say as i even cared about that aspect of it. He was nice and clean and obviously aroused, and he had me so ready i didn't care what it looked like so long as i got some of it.
Quite honestly- if you are someone i'm fond of and excited by, i couldn't possibly care less whether or not you're cut, so long as you keep it- and the rest of yourself- clean.

 

[kamalw1]

My current playmate is European, and the first uncut man i've played with. He was actually rather surprised when i told him that- he asked me if i had only dated Jewish guys before! He seemed rather surprised when i told him that probably about 4 out of 5 guys at least here are done.
i rather like his cock- it's different because he is so sensitive to the touch i have to be a little gentler than i'm used to, and he likes to be stroked a little differently than i'm used to, but since every man is different anyway... it's not really a problem, you know?
i never gave much thought to what it would be like to play with an uncut cock or what differences there might be. When we went to bed the first time and i got my first good look at it, i can't say as i even cared about that aspect of it. He was nice and clean and obviously aroused, and he had me so ready i didn't care what it looked like so long as i got some of it.
Quite honestly- if you are someone i'm fond of and excited by, i couldn't possibly care less whether or not you're cut, so long as you keep it- and the rest of yourself- clean.

Very well said.

 

[chowchow]

My current playmate is European, and the first uncut man i've played with. He was actually rather surprised when i told him that- he asked me if i had only dated Jewish guys before! He seemed rather surprised when i told him that probably about 4 out of 5 guys at least here are done.
i rather like his cock- it's different because he is so sensitive to the touch i have to be a little gentler than i'm used to, and he likes to be stroked a little differently than i'm used to, but since every man is different anyway... it's not really a problem, you know?
i never gave much thought to what it would be like to play with an uncut cock or what differences there might be. When we went to bed the first time and i got my first good look at it, i can't say as i even cared about that aspect of it. He was nice and clean and obviously aroused, and he had me so ready i didn't care what it looked like so long as i got some of it.
Quite honestly- if you are someone i'm fond of and excited by, i couldn't possibly care less whether or not you're cut, so long as you keep it- and the rest of yourself- clean.

Following from this point, I find it very hard to imagine a girl ever saying no to sex because a guy is uncircumcised lol. It's never even come close to happening, and although they might think about afterwards or before hand, when it comes down to it a cock is a cock. I've had my share of partners - at least 2 American, who never said a word.

 

[chowchow]

Very well said.

\

Go the towel AVs.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

Officials fear babies
contracted herpes during circumcisions
Wednesday, February 2, 2005 Posted: 8:06 AM EST (1306 GMT)

NEW YORK (AP) -- City health officials are investigating the death of a baby boy who was one of three infants to contract herpes after a rabbi circumcised them.

Ten days after Rabbi Yitzhok Fischer performed religious circumcisions on twins last October, one died of herpes and the other tested positive for the virus, according to complaint filed by the health department in Manhattan Supreme Court.

The complaint, reported in Wednesday's edition of the New York Daily News, also said health officials later found a third baby who had contracted herpes after being circumcised by Fischer in late 2003.

Under Jewish law, a mohel -- someone who performs circumcisions -- draws blood from the circumcision wound. Most mohels do it by hand, but Fischer uses a rare practice where he uses his mouth.

Fischer's lawyer, Mark Kurzmann, told the Daily News that Fischer was cooperating with the investigation, although it's unclear whether Fischer submitted to the city's request for a blood test.

"My client is known internationally as a caring, skilled, and conscientious mohel," Kurzmann said.

 

[kamalw1]

Officials fear babies
contracted herpes during circumcisions
Wednesday, February 2, 2005 Posted: 8:06 AM EST (1306 GMT)

NEW YORK (AP) -- City health officials are investigating the death of a baby boy who was one of three infants to contract herpes after a rabbi circumcised them.

Ten days after Rabbi Yitzhok Fischer performed religious circumcisions on twins last October, one died of herpes and the other tested positive for the virus, according to complaint filed by the health department in Manhattan Supreme Court.

The complaint, reported in Wednesday's edition of the New York Daily News, also said health officials later found a third baby who had contracted herpes after being circumcised by Fischer in late 2003.

Under Jewish law, a mohel -- someone who performs circumcisions -- draws blood from the circumcision wound. Most mohels do it by hand, but Fischer uses a rare practice where he uses his mouth.

Fischer's lawyer, Mark Kurzmann, told the Daily News that Fischer was cooperating with the investigation, although it's unclear whether Fischer submitted to the city's request for a blood test.

"My client is known internationally as a caring, skilled, and conscientious mohel," Kurzmann said.

I am afraid to ask, but is this serious?

 

[TheOlderGuy]

I am afraid to ask, but is this serious?

http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7517861

NY Officials Bar Rabbi from Circumcision Ritual
Wed Feb 2, 2005 04:46 PM ET

By Larry Fine
NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York City health officials have gone to court to stop a rabbi from performing a type of ritual circumcision they believe may have led to the death of a baby boy from herpes.

The baby was one of three infants found to have contracted herpes simplex virus after being circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer, who used his mouth to draw blood from the infant's wound, a traditional Orthodox practice during the bris, or religious circumcision.

The complaint filed by the department of health in Manhattan Supreme Court asked that Fischer submit blood samples to be tested for the herpes virus and no longer engage in the specific practice until an investigation was completed.

The court papers, filed on Dec. 22, were reported on by the Daily News on Wednesday

"Rabbi Fischer is still performing circumcisions, but he is complying with the court's direction," his lawyer, Mark J. Kurzmann, told Reuters on Wednesday.

Kurzmann described Fischer as a London-trained, "internationally known" mohel, or someone who performs circumcisions.

Ten days after Fischer circumcised twins last October, one died of herpes and the other tested positive for the virus, according to the court papers.

A third baby circumcised by Fisher was later found to have also tested positive for herpes, health officials said.

An affidavit submitted to the court by Dr. Susan Blank, assistant commissioner of the health department, said Fischer had performed about 350 Jewish circumcisions in the area.

Blank noted that the herpes virus, which is common in adults and often causes lesions known as "fever blisters" or "cold sores" is easily transmitted but not usually a serious illness in adults. In newborn infants, however, herpes can cause severe illness and may be fatal, she said.

Kurzmann suggested the infants could have contracted the infection some other way.

"Rabbi Fischer is cooperating fully with the city's investigation in order to determine the true sources of the infection," Kurzmann said.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6898403/

 

[TumbledLove]

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/

 

[TumbledLove]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_circumcision

 

[smy3th]

deleted

 

[smy3th]

deleted

 

[Gord]

I see we have circumcision back on the boards again

So I am bumping this thread as it was a pretty well developed arguments and it beats starting again - sorry Dolf

For me I would never deliberatlely get my son circumcised - It is very rare here and I dont see the need to put your baby through unnecessary surgery for aesthetic purposes as I think girlfriday said - the hygene argument is rediculous as soap and water and regular washing should be taught to all our children

 

[smy3th]

deleted

 

[rakastuja]

For me I would never deliberatlely get my son circumcised - It is very rare here and I dont see the need to put your baby through unnecessary surgery for aesthetic purposes as I think girlfriday said - the hygene argument is rediculous as soap and water and regular washing should be taught to all our children

Ridiculous is also being repulsed of own son's physical appearance as it is.

I cant imagine myself getting a son and then saying that his penis looks repulsive and therefore needs to be operated. I mean I just cant. Its natural, its the way human males are born.

Cutting because of a tradition, religion etc is way more understandable.

I dont think it is that big thing in itself. I dont think health is either. Vast majority of both cut and uncut men seem to be healthy and quite happy with their penis (or at least issue is not foreskin/absense of it).