Churchil was a jerk!

[p_p_man]

He came closer to losing the Second World War than people think. The only reason he's gone down in history as a hero, and the saviour of Britain, is that Hitler didn't follow through when he could have conquered us completely..

 

[sigh]

he could stump a pretty good speech though

 

[kiwiwolf]

you're still a poo poo head...

 

[freescorfr]

He, too, had many a hangover and many an arguement and many a glass of orange and champagne in the morning.
Little evidence of wife-beating, though.

 

[p_p_man]

He changed parties more times than...

I've had hot dinners.

He was completely usless as a Home Secreatay and a dunderhead as First Lord of the Admiralty

and he allowed the deaths of hundred of peopke in the East End of London by not having a bomb shelter policy..

All he was useful for was talking up a good fight..

 

[Weird Harold]

he could stump a pretty good speech though

I read in one of his biographies that he was very bad at improvisation and spent hours rewriting and rehearsing his speeches.

He had a face made for radio -- he didn't fare nearly as well once TV became widespread.

 

[Lost Cause]

"Winnie" was a leader when he was needed the most. After the war, he was voted out. We need rah-rah leaders in time of crisis, ie..Roosevelt's "nothing to fear" speech....Churchill's "Fight them in the Air" speech....and Stalin's "kill anyone that opposes me" speech.
Churchill surrounded himself with good generals and politicians just like the rest of the allied forces. Without Montgomery and Patton, and motivated populations behind the push, we'd be speaking German!

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: He changed parties more times than...

All he was useful for was talking up a good fight..

He was the right man for the time then, because talking a good fight was just about all that England could do at the time he became Prime Minister. He kept England willing to fight until they had recouped the means to actually do some real fighting.

 

[p_p_man]

At the height of ther blitz...

he ordered all fire fighting crews to St Paul's Cathedral to "save it at all costs".

No matter about the poor buggers screaming in agony as they burnt to death in the streets.

 

[p_p_man]

He was such a conceited bastard...

that he actually though he was put on this earth to fight WWII.

That, according to him, was his calling from God.

"I feel, at last, that I have met my true destiny."

 

[p_p_man]

Even his much heralded escape from the Boers...

Was a massive bit of pro-Churcill propagands. As soon as he walked out of the camp he was hustled away by a well oiled escape group. All he had to do was sleep and eat as they spirited him over the the border.

They were the truly brave men and women...

 

[p_p_man]

His judgement of men was so abysmal...

that he appointed some of the worst generals we had as head of our fighting forces.

Montgomery was only chosen because "Ike" Eisenhower thought he could work with him.

And he was right.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: His judgement of men was so abysmal...

Montgomery was only chosen because "Ike" Eisenhower thought he could work with him.

If Ike had his druthers, Monty would have been stuffed headfirst in the Loo and left there! And that was before Ike really got to know Monty. (At lest according to one of Ike's biographers.)

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: His judgement of men was so abysmal...

If Ike had his druthers, Monty would have been stuffed headfirst in the Loo and left there! And that was before Ike really got to know Monty. (At lest according to one of Ike's biographers.)

True the two men disliked each other with an intensity.

But with Ik's formidable man management skills and Monty's war-horse experiences the team worked.

Nothing to do with Churchill though. All he wanted to do was replace Monty at every opportunity because of his "insubordination".

It took Ike's intervention on more than one occasion to keep Monty in place...

 

[Lost Cause]

The World was so lucky, the only person responsible for the outcome was "Der Furhrer". An incredible series of poor choices led to his defeat, with or without the rest of the world leaders. After taking France, not crossing the channel.
Not developing a long-range bomber.
Moving on the USSR after signing a pact with them.
Not solidifying his diplomatic initiatives for non-aggression.
Not developing all his jet engine technology.
Not developing his atomic program

If he had waited till 1950, we would have had a more severe form of the European Union.

 

[p_p_man]

The World was so lucky, the only person responsible for the outcome was "Der Furhrer". An incredible series of poor choices led to his defeat, with or without the rest of the world leaders. After taking France, not crossing the channel.
Not developing a long-range bomber.
Moving on the USSR after signing a pact with them.
Not solidifying his diplomatic initiatives for non-aggression.
Not developing all his jet engine technology.
Not developing his atomic program

Yep.

Nothing to do with Churchill at all...

 

[scylis]

you know, if Hitler hadn't been insane and Germany had had a heavy bomber, we'd all be speaking German, making this thread quite, quite moot.

but he was and they didn't, so we don't. yet somehow, it still is. moot, that is.

is there a world leader both then and now that you DO like, or are they all just shitheads you could have done a lot better than?

 

[mig]

p_p_man

To borrow someone's line.

Fuck off.

 

[bored1]

Churchill right man at the right time.....Now go find those stun guns that are being smuggled into the UK , when you find those go and hunt down those Rampaging Brits who are killing all the foxes

 

[bluespoke]

Churchill right man at the right time.....Now go find those stun guns that are being smuggled into the UK , when you find those go and hunt down those Rampaging Brits who are killing all the foxes

Don't be silly they don't have the balls to kill the foxes themselves, they get dogs to do it for them!

 

[Hamletmaschine]

Churchill was a jerk!

. . . and Immanuel Kant
Was a real pissant. . . .

 

[p_p_man]

Don't be silly they don't have the balls to kill the foxes themselves, they get dogs to do it for them!

Fox hunting is a clean and humane sport and keeps the countryside free from vermin.

The hounds get lots of exercise, it keeps thousands of people in employment and those red jackets are neat...

 

[Starblayde]

I read in one of his biographies that he was very bad at improvisation and spent hours rewriting and rehearsing his speeches.

For every minute of speech time, he spent up to an hour writing and re-writing it... If oyu ever hear one of his speeches all the way through...it was worth the time he spent on it

 

[Starblayde]

Fox hunting is a clean and humane sport and keeps the countryside free from vermin.

What it actually does is keep the fox population at a healthy level, killing off the weak, old ones... Britain has the healthiest fox population in Europe... so there

 

[Jimi]

Re: He changed parties more times than...

I've had hot dinners.

He was completely usless as a Home Secreatay and a dunderhead as First Lord of the Admiralty

and he allowed the deaths of hundred of peopke in the East End of London by not having a bomb shelter policy..

All he was useful for was talking up a good fight..

All true, Gadfly - but you miss the point. Deliberately, I suspect. But now you can fence with me, if you choose...

Overall, Winston Churchill was the one who stopped appeasement by the English limp-dicks like Chamberlain and "David" Windsor - our sorriest of sorry Kings. Your modern attitude mirrors the far Right in Britain 1933-39, methinks!

His stupidity on various individual points - Gallipoli being a glaring one, is FAR outweighed by his statecraft and leadership from 1940-45 - esp. in the Dunkirk to December, 1941 period.

And then, before Potsdam, where he would have CHALLENGED Stalin and Molotov - you whinig, nasty, selfish little Lefties cast him aside for milk-sop Clement Atlee - Bravo, brother Bloggs!

I'm all right, Jack - we're on strike....