Christians don't believe in freedom of speech???

[Halo_n_horns]

Just for giggles I like lurking into other forums on the net to see what people are chatting about. There's definitely some stranger shit out there than what's seen here, but back to topic...

Tonight I Googled "Christian Forums" and found something interesting in several of the sites rules listings. Basically, actual, true, unabashed freedom of speech is definite no-no on these sites. I didn't actually register at any of them, I just went far enough for the Terms and Conditions of joining the sites.

These folks are clearly against anyone stating anything that does anymore than raise an occasional brow. Being able to discuss a topic, especially one that holds anything that can be considered taboo in even the smallest degree, is pretty much off limits. The terms and conditions of the sites I checked out were thorough, but still ambiguous enough that pretty much anyone could get ejaculated, er, I mean, ejected for having the wrong color of shirt on, if you know what I mean?!

What was worse was that in the the threads I lurked through, these people seemed to be perfectly happy with all of the sugar coatings and rose-colored glasses. The content of their posts seemed so watered down, and in some instances - so delusional - that I seriously got to the point that I wanted to register and start verbally bitch-slapping people. But I refrained. More than once we've had some Bible-thumper drop into our boards and do a post-and-run. I didn't want to be one of those assholes.

Instead I'll be the kind of asshole that comes back here and types the preceeding.

Well, this whole thing raised all kinds of questions for me, too many to list, frankly. I know we have Christians here, so I'm hoping that they, as well as all our non-denominational brethren, will get in here and post some thoughts on this topic.

If some coherent conversation comes of this, cool. If not ... eh ... whatever.

 

[entitled]

There's them that discuss, and them that don't. He have a few discussers here. A thread that i've found to be of particular interest is here.

Everything from what the title suggests to blowing things up, with a little wrestling and food tossed in here and there.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

There's them that discuss, and them that don't. He have a few discussers here. A thread that i've found to be of particular interest is here.

Everything from what the title suggests to blowing things up, with a little wrestling and food tossed in here and there.

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to get into that one tomorrow night.

 

[cantdog]

It's kinda fun, but it's not really my meat, so to speak. I don't have a lot of sexuality issues. I'm pretty comfortable in my sexual skin, that is. Not a bad thread, tho, if your taste runs that way.

 

[entitled]

It's not all about sexuality and such. Other subjects are welcome as well.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Oh goody, another Christian knocking blurb...

I find it interesting that you went to all of that trouble to view their sites, and as you say didn't leave a stool dropping for them to delete. LOL Not all Christians are afraid to read, and some of us even write.

DS

 

[Halo_n_horns]

I find it interesting that you went to all of that trouble to view their sites, and as you say didn't leave a stool dropping for them to delete. LOL Not all Christians are afraid to read, and some of us even write.

DS

First, that's a spectacular ass. I hope its yours.

I didn't want to be a hit-and-run poster on any of these sites. Had I dropped anything in there it would have come to trying to hold onto it by tooth and nail. By the tones of the various threads I perused, it would have been feeble on my part to make the effort. Believe me, I really wanted to.

Sexuality was mentioned above, and to be honest it was a topic that I saw very little of. I wasn't just referring to sexual discussions on those boards, but I did find it disturbing how subjects that were distinctively human in nature seemed constrained at best, and in many instances, flat out shunned or commented on in terms of sinfulness.

Thank you kindly for your comments thus far.

edit:
PS to Dirty Slut ...

This isn't an attempt to "knock Christians." While I do a bit of that in other places, this thread is more of genuinely curiosity than anything else.

 

[sophia jane]

What I'm about to say has nothing to do with any of the Christians who frequent lit.
There are some who post on Christian boards (and actually there are some like this who don't post on boards), who live in a fairytale kind of land. Their entire focus in life is on church, God, the Bible. I've known people like this. I've been a person like this, actually. And to those people, when something doesn't fit within the neat little world they have created, they ignore it. Can't answer the questions of real life or reconcile beliefs with reality? Deny reality. Live in faith.
So that's what you may have been witnessing Halo. And those restrictions on free speech, in their view, are there to "protect" them from hateful non-Christians who would criticize their faith. What we might see as questioning, curiousity, conversation is often seen by those people as an attack. And so their forums are set up to "protect" them.

Not all Christians are like this. Some are open to honest discussion, and philosophical conversations etc. But in general the Christian boards are more for the people who like to keep their heads up their asses and live in fairtytale land. I know cuz I lived there for a few years.

 

[MnRider]

I find it interesting that you went to all of that trouble to view their sites, and as you say didn't leave a stool dropping for them to delete. LOL Not all Christians are afraid to read, and some of us even write.

DS

It funny that the people who claim to have the moral high ground often assume the rest of the people are somehow inferior. It really doesn't matter if they are Christians or not.

Halo_n_horns paints all Christians with the same broad brush after reading one group discussion... They are all against free speech, yet Christians wrote Freedom of Speech into the Bill of Rights.

[laughing]

My beautiful wife was a true Christian, she went to church, prayed, and more than once forgave the pagan in me. She read erotic stories with me and was a wildcat in bed. She was also a very kind hearted person who respected others beliefs. She was kind and respectful of what others did or said, she may not have liked or agreed, but she did allow them their beliefs.

It isn't whether you're a Christian or not, it's whether you respect other people or not which determines whether you value the Freedom of others to speak.

Halo is welcome to bash the people in that group if he wishes, but I hope he will at least respect the rest of the people and qualify his statements.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Actually, Madison was probably a Deist. Anyway, this is the world into which I was raised. It was sickening to me at times, EVEN WHEN I BELIEVED IN THAT RELIGION. It just goes to show that I was not suited to such a world-view. The anti-intellectualism was a common theme that always disturbed me.

I once heard a "Christian Reconstruction" movement government professor advocate jailing and hanging homosexuals. That is not, obviously, what all Christians believe (at least if you believe the United Methodist ads that have aired lately). It IS however, the new wave of Christianity: a return of the medievalism so rampant in the history of their religion.

I respect your wife for not being that way. (Although, as a pagan, I don't see how anything "pagan" needs to be forgiven.) This is more common in the mainline denominations. It is the "fundamentalist" and "evangelical" circle that behaves like an ostrich. They remind me of the movie "The Name Of The Rose", which I saw again last night. 2 monks and a peasant girl were consigned to the stake, the latter (who escaped) simply for seducing monks. The Inquisition didn't bother with evidence. This is the same body that forced Galileo to recant. THAT is the mentality that the fundamentalists represent.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I think, one of the genuine problems Christans have, like Muslims recently, is that a feww extremists tend to grab the headlines/attention and because they are more vocal or in the limelight, they tend to define the positions of all Christians.

I'm a Christian. I'm also a lesbian. I am pro choice. I write erotica. I'm afraid of the influence the Christian right has gained over my government.

I'm a vocal proponent of many of my beliefs, but I'm fairly quiet in my faith. I'm no less a Christian than those who try to refute reality. I'm simply practice a less extreme brand of Christianity. But because I'm not prosteletizing or preaching all the time, I'm less likely to be recognized as one.

In all faiths, there are the extremeists and those with a more tolerant bent. Radicalism isn't confined to Islam or Christianity. Painting us all with the same bush is not fair, but in fairness to observers, if all y9ou see is the reactionary wing of the faith, you make a natural assumption of value and belief.

But, and it is a strong but, If you judged Christians in antiquity by the Templars or Catholics by the inquisition, or Angelicans by Henery...you are getting a skwewed perspective.

 

[cloudy]

Halo_n_horns paints all Christians with the same broad brush after reading one group discussion... They are all against free speech, yet Christians wrote Freedom of Speech into the Bill of Rights.

Gotta correct you here. Not Christians....diests. Huge difference.

My beautiful wife was a true Christian, she went to church, prayed, and more than once forgave the pagan in me.

I find this statement quite patronizing. I'm not a christian, but I feel that there's nothing for anyone to "forgive" about what I believe.

She was kind and respectful of what others did or said, she may not have liked or agreed, but she did allow them their beliefs.

Again, very patronizing. She may have been a wonderful woman, I don't doubt that, but no one "allows" me to believe what I believe.

It isn't whether you're a Christian or not, it's whether you respect other people or not which determines whether you value the Freedom of others to speak.

Halo is welcome to bash the people in that group if he wishes, but I hope he will at least respect the rest of the people and qualify his statements.

I don't think he was bashing anyone, to be honest. I see a pattern in your post that I see in some others - patronizing language as if those who believe differently are children who have yet to see the error of their ways, or some other such nonsense.

A truly open mind doesn't react that way, but rather truly respects another's right to believe differently.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I think, one of the genuine problems Christans have, like Muslims recently, is that a feww extremists tend to grab the headlines/attention and because they are more vocal or in the limelight, they tend to define the positions of all Christians.

I'm a Christian. I'm also a lesbian. I am pro choice. I write erotica. I'm afraid of the influence the Christian right has gained over my government.

I'm a vocal proponent of many of my beliefs, but I'm fairly quiet in my faith. I'm no less a Christian than those who try to refute reality. I'm simply practice a less extreme brand of Christianity. But because I'm not prosteletizing or preaching all the time, I'm less likely to be recognized as one.

In all faiths, there are the extremeists and those with a more tolerant bent. Radicalism isn't confined to Islam or Christianity. Painting us all with the same bush is not fair, but in fairness to observers, if all y9ou see is the reactionary wing of the faith, you make a natural assumption of value and belief.

But, and it is a strong but, If you judged Christians in antiquity by the Templars or Catholics by the inquisition, or Angelicans by Henery...you are getting a skwewed perspective.

I was simply comparing the fundamentalists to the Inquisition. It is the same mentality. It is the mentality that advocates "intelligent design". I respect their right to believe such things, but then I also respect someone's right to believe in a Flat Earth. I just don't share that belief.

 

[Pure]

Another view,

I'm familiar with a couple moderated Christian (Quaker) sites. They certainly aim to discourage 'flames.'

I think their aim is to encourage discussion among Quakers (or those interested) on relevant topics--e.g, the Iraq war. Does that seem wrong?

While fundamental questions certainly deserve to be aired publicly (elsewhere), why in these forums? For example, if someone wants to post (affirmatively) on the topic "Is all religion a delusion of the masses?" that is disruptive of specific discussions being carried on.
Same for "Is the Christian peace movement a commie tool?"

Further let us consider an evangelical site (quaker or not). They agree Jesus is God's Son, second person of the trinity, etc. The want to debate, say, the ethics of the Iraq war or the Biblical basis for opposing abortion. But someone wishes to have a thread "Jesus never existed." "The Bible is a pack of lies." Again valid topics, but for elsewhere.

"Free speech" as protected in the constitution has to do with public forums. Publishing a handbill and handing it out *on the street*. It does not mean that in any gathering, anywhere (like a worship service) you can stand up and say "Jesus was a commie pinko" or distribute your handbill to that effect.

This point applies more generally: At an engineering convention, whose theme is 'design which withstands natural disasters', one may not be welcome, during a question period after a talk, to stand up and say "Engineers are the tools of corporate interests." or "Engineers bear a main responsibility for destroying our cities, with their roads, concrete apt buildings, etc."

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I was simply comparing the fundamentalists to the Inquisition. It is the same mentality. It is the mentality that advocates "intelligent design". I respect their right to believe such things, but then I also respect someone's right to believe in a Flat Earth. I just don't share that belief.

Comparing anyone to the inquisition, like comparing them to the nazi's is inflamatory. Your right to do so, but when you do, you are making an implication that is highly inflamatory.

This is not to say the comparrison may not be valid, but you are calling up an example that is, prety close to evil personified. There are other, less inflamatory analogies that can be made. Of course, often the intent of comparrison to thses and other infamous movements is the point. But again, the point is inflamatory and confronational if such i the case.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Comparing anyone to the inquisition, like comparing them to the nazi's is inflamatory. Your right to do so, but when you do, you are making an implication that is highly inflamatory.

This is not to say the comparrison may not be valid, but you are calling up an example that is, prety close to evil personified. There are other, less inflamatory analogies that can be made. Of course, often the intent of comparrison to thses and other infamous movements is the point. But again, the point is inflamatory and confronational if such i the case.

I understand that. However, that is the first thing that comes to mind as a comparison, which is why I used it. It reminded me of that film.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The content of their posts seemed so watered down, and in some instances - so delusional - that I seriously got to the point that I wanted to register and start verbally bitch-slapping people. But I refrained. More than once we've had some Bible-thumper drop into our boards and do a post-and-run. I didn't want to be one of those assholes.

My x-mas presents have already been bought. I can do it!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I understand that. However, that is the first thing that comes to mind as a comparison, which is why I used it. It reminded me of that film.

My post wasn't aimed at you in a personal way. I hope you did not take it as such. It was a general comment on how religion is often defined by the extremes because the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

My post wasn't aimed at you in a personal way. I hope you did not take it as such. It was a general comment on how religion is often defined by the extremes because the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Well stated. It's little wonder that the Methodists are now putting out ads emphasizing their "open hearts, open minds, open doors". If I were a Methodist, I'd be doing the same, just to clarify that not all Methodists are right-wing bible thumpers. I wouldn't be surprised if the Episcopal Church followed suit.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

My post wasn't aimed at you in a personal way. I hope you did not take it as such. It was a general comment on how religion is often defined by the extremes because the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

And I DO realize that it wasn't aimed at me in particular.

 

[English Lady]

I used to run a mixed aged chat forum connected to an opinions site, believe me, it' not easy to run a site and keep it nice. I tried -it nearly gave me a breakdown. People argue, people bitch, people debate. To stop this from happening, you have to create a very insular environment and clamp down on every little thing -or else chaos will eventually reign.

Also, I've got to agree with SJ -there are some Christians who live in their own little world, sheltered from everyone else. They live, breath and eat christianity. They never really interact with anyone else, they don't want to think about anything that isn't Christian -they're missing out in my opinion.

I believe you've got to constantly question you're faith, constantly keep reassesing it. Hell, no one person is ever gonna have the complete picture on it. I'm sure when I get up to Heaven and I'm having a chat with Jesus, I'll find out some stuff which will surprise me, I'm sure of it!

Anyway, what I'm saying is that I understand the forums policies and if people want to immerse themselves in that, then it's there choice. The minute you really,truly think about free speech in your forums is the minute you've got to accept upset and outrage.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

Talk about getting some great posts ... !!!

As I mentioned before, I do bash Christians. I also bash the many off-shoots of Christianity, the Mormons are one of my favorite targets. I also bash athiests, theists, Buddhists (who I actually like above most others), Pagans, Voduns, Catholics, and a pretty broad variety of other practitioners of other faiths and belief systems. Mind you, however, that I also personally know and am very good aquaintance with a many of these folks.

Actually, now that I think about, I don't even bash them so much as just "challenge" them.

However, as I also said, bashing is not my intent in this thread. Please notice that I did not start naming sites and/or their screen names because I had neither the inclination or even the notion of inviting any of them back here to defend themselves against what is little more than a curiosity on my part.

Regarding that coment about my painting with a broad brush; if anyone here Googles "Christian Forums" as I did, and then start comparing the Terms and Conditions of the various sites, let me repeat that, various sites, as well as the various forums, you'll no doubt see a great deal of what I've brought up here ... by no stretch of common sense I might add.

That wasn't a broad brush stroke so much as it was a simple connect-the-dots for a bigger picture.

I think that the commentary I saw above about these folks shielding themselves, or even sheltering themselves from all things not in their faith pretty well sums it up. After reading through a number of forums I can easily say that the posts were sterile to say the least.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I think you'll find the All opinions are welcome except dissenting ones in every niche of society. I run across boards like that all the time. Sports, politics, you name it and there's a board set up for people that don't want to hear any opinions except those that agree with them.

I'm not taking up for anyone, or any one group. I'm just saying that it's not limited to Christians.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

I think you'll find the All opinions are welcome except dissenting ones in every niche of society. I run across boards like that all the time. Sports, politics, you name it and there's a board set up for people that don't want to hear any opinions except those that agree with them.

I'm not taking up for anyone, or any one group. I'm just saying that it's not limited to Christians.

Good point.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Also, I've got to agree with SJ -there are some Christians who live in their own little world, sheltered from everyone else. They live, breath and eat christianity. They never really interact with anyone else, they don't want to think about anything that isn't Christian -they're missing out in my opinion.

There are pagans and buddhists and atheists and even sports fans who do the same thing.

That kind of insularity isn't unique to Christianity as far as I know.