Children raised by gay parents

[Ms_Lilith]

Someone said to me recently that he didn't believe children should be raised by gay parents (two gay people in a relationship).

He didn't give me a reason for it, just thought it was wrong.

Now, I know a couple people who were raised by gay and lesbian parents. They are some of the most well-rounded people Iknow. I think they're just fantastic, and I love their parents to pieces. And they have no complaints. They always had all the good male and female influences they needed, and have nothing bad to say about it...

What do you think?

 

[Angel]

I think the sexual orientation and gender of parents is the most unimportant thing to worry about.

 

[Queersetti]

Someone said to me recently that he didn't believe children should be raised by gay parents (two gay people in a relationship).

He didn't give me a reason for it, just thought it was wrong.

Now, I know a couple people who were raised by gay and lesbian parents. They are some of the most well-rounded people Iknow. I think they're just fantastic, and I love their parents to pieces. And they have no complaints. They always had all the good male and female influences they needed, and have nothing bad to say about it...

What do you think?

I agree with you, but with a caveat. I think same-sex couples raising children must make a special effort to, as you point out, make sure that the children are exposed sufficiently to both male and female influences.

 

[Bitchslapper]

I think it's perfectly fine, as long as the children aren't unduly influenced regarding thier sexuality. Same thing with politics or anything else the parents have a personal opinion about.

 

[Cigan]

Re: Re: Children raised by gay parents

I agree with you, but with a caveat. I think same-sex couples raising children must make a special effort to, as you point out, make sure that the children are exposed sufficiently to both male and female influences.

I actually have to disagree. I have a two friends (brothers) who were abandoned by their father at a very young age and were raised by their mother. They both have a very healthy outlook on life and their mother didn't particularly worry about them having a male influence. I imagine they did at school at some point, but still. I think that preconception that you need to have a parental influence of each gender is really a misconception.

 

[Netzach]

Agreed. Single mom, no profound male influence. Of course, I like to eat male egoes for breakfast like little tasty snacks, but I don't think getting overly freudian on the happy Dominatrix is necessary.

 

[College_geek]

Someone said to me recently that he didn't believe children should be raised by gay parents (two gay people in a relationship).

He didn't give me a reason for it, just thought it was wrong.

Now, I know a couple people who were raised by gay and lesbian parents. They are some of the most well-rounded people Iknow. I think they're just fantastic, and I love their parents to pieces. And they have no complaints. They always had all the good male and female influences they needed, and have nothing bad to say about it...

What do you think?

A person has more influences in their life than their parents, as you've said. I want to think that by being raised by two parents of the same sex, one will grow up more accepting of it, and hopefully will be able to show their acquaintances that there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[Adrenaline]

Re: Re: Re: Children raised by gay parents

I actually have to disagree. I have a two friends (brothers) who were abandoned by their father at a very young age and were raised by their mother. They both have a very healthy outlook on life and their mother didn't particularly worry about them having a male influence. I imagine they did at school at some point, but still. I think that preconception that you need to have a parental influence of each gender is really a misconception.

I don't think that you need to have parental influence of each gender to raise a healthy child, but it's ideal and I'm speaking as a child raised successfully by a single mother (I think ).

On topic I don't think that sexual orientation has anything to do with how good or bad a parent will be and so it shouldn't be taken into consideration: homosexual or heterosexual it's all about the values and qualities of the individuals.

It only sucks when people use it as some sort of indicator of the parents' qualities.

 

[deezire1900]

Lets compare...
Gay couple: accepting, loving (due to having to fight so hard for it), tolerant, higher incomes (statistics), educated (again statistics), not to mention they actually WANT a child when they have one.

Straight Couple: YOUR WHAT!!??? Shit...there goes drinking with the boys everynight. OH, and are we living with you mom, or my dad?

Now...don't get me wrong...i think straight couples can be all good also, but just like eveything else people take for granted...it is just too easy to have a baby.

by the way...the radio station just did a bit on how to keep your man...get PG. Crazy...but it is true in that weird world.

attack away...

Deezire

 

[Adrenaline]

Lets compare...
Gay couple: accepting, loving (due to having to fight so hard for it), tolerant, higher incomes (statistics), educated (again statistics), not to mention they actually WANT a child when they have one.

Straight Couple: YOUR WHAT!!??? Shit...there goes drinking with the boys everynight. OH, and are we living with you mom, or my dad?

Now...don't get me wrong...i think straight couples can be all good also, but just like eveything else people take for granted...it is just too easy to have a baby.

Deezire

Yes, I am sure that all straight couples have it easy when it comes to conception, and heck after that it's just suns and flowers from then on! Ahhhh, living the straight life!

Look, people are people. That gay couple could as easily become embittered by the struggles they had to go through to be accepted as an equal have a huge chip on their shoulders and raise their child accordingly. Or the couple could become so grateful that they were able to have a child (by whatever means chosen) that they become stifling and over-protective.

It's the character and circumstances of the persons that determines these things, IMO, not their sexual lifestyle.

 

[deezire1900]

I do feel it is way to easy to have a child. A child is a gift, and people treat them like property.

The difference is (like i stated) when a gay couple has a child they WANT one.

deezire

 

[BlueSugar]

I have this arguement with a friend all the time, and all he can come up with, is that it is wrong.

I know more straight people that shouldn't have children.

 

[sigh]

I do feel it is way to easy to have a child. A child is a gift, and people treat them like property.

The difference is (like i stated) when a gay couple has a child they WANT one.

deezire

I'm gay. I have a child, but in no way did I want one when when he came. Don't get me wrong, I love him dearly and am glad now that he's in my life, but at the time....

The point is, you just can't generalize like that. There's a world of odd goings-on out there, and there'll always be someone who doesn't fit nicely into any box, let alone the one you're trying to squeeze her into.

As to Cigan's and Q's points about whether or not it's ideal to have a child exposed to both genders, I think that it's really part of a much bigger issue on what makes an ideal family. Let me ramble a bit and see if I can explain....

There are many times when I wish for a complete family (man/wife/kids) and sure, I know that sounds odd because I don't want a man in my life as a spouse, but I was raised in a traditional family, with a mom and a dad and a sister, and it was a wonderful place to be. It was fun and comfortable and safe. We loved each other so much that we took each other for granted, and that's the way it should be. I wish my son could have that. I wish that he could have more than just me. Knowing that he doesn't gives me pain.

Fair or not, for years to come gay families will suffer, I think, when compared to non-gay families. There's this ideal picture of a family that's presented everywhere, all the time, in books, movies, TV and ads, and in hardly any of those images of a perfect family will you find two dads, or two moms. And even if occasionally you do, I've never seen an ideal family portrayed with a single, gay mom. The perfect family image is a pervasive and overwhelming part of our culture - I think Q's comment reflects that - and it's an image we don't comfortably fit into at all.

Time's change, though. Culture's change too. In a few generations, who knows what it'll all look like.

 

[Queersetti]

I'm gay. I have a child, but in no way did I want one when when he came. Don't get me wrong, I love him dearly and am glad now that he's in my life, but at the time....

The point is, you just can't generalize like that. There's a world of odd goings-on out there, and there'll always be someone who doesn't fit nicely into any box, let alone the one you're trying to squeeze her into.

As to Cigan's and Q's points about whether or not it's ideal to have a child exposed to both genders, I think that it's really part of a much bigger issue on what makes an ideal family. Let me ramble a bit and see if I can explain....

There are many times when I wish for a complete family (man/wife/kids) and sure, I know that sounds odd because I don't want a man in my life as a spouse, but I was raised in a traditional family, with a mom and a dad and a sister, and it was a wonderful place to be. It was fun and comfortable and safe. We loved each other so much that we took each other for granted, and that's the way it should be. I wish my son could have that. I wish that he could have more than just me. Knowing that he doesn't gives me pain.

Fair or not, for years to come gay families will suffer, I think, when compared to non-gay families. There's this ideal picture of a family that's presented everywhere, all the time, in books, movies, TV and ads, and in hardly any of those images of a perfect family will you find two dads, or two moms. And even if occasionally you do, I've never seen an ideal family portrayed with a single, gay mom. The perfect family image is a pervasive and overwhelming part of our culture - I think Q's comment reflects that - and it's an image we don't comfortably fit into at all.

Time's change, though. Culture's change too. In a few generations, who knows what it'll all look like.

I don't think that what I said reflects an attitude that anyone needs to be part of a "perfect family". In fact, I was careful not to express myself in such terms.

I do, however, believe that children should be exposed to both male and female influences, in order to assure their full social development. I don't think those influences need necessarily be parental or familial.

 

[Adrenaline]

I do feel it is way to easy to have a child. A child is a gift, and people treat them like property.

The difference is (like i stated) when a gay couple has a child they WANT one.

deezire

So when a straight couple has a child they don't, because it's so easy? And since a gay couple in question may want to have a child that automatically means that family life will be a success?

I was an unplanned pregnancy for my mother, as she was young at the time, and though she kept me I'm sure that she went through periods where she resented her circumstances and perhaps even reject them. The point is that child-rearing and family life is probably one of the hardest things people do and experience and wanting it is only a single albeit necessary part of it.


It just seems as if you have a very black and white view on the situation quite similar to the one bigoted heterosexuals have towards child-reariing and family:judging or evaluating parenting capabilities merely on sexual lifestyle. It is only that yours can be placed in a more sympathetic light based on the difficulties in life that homosexuals face. I sometimes think that you're trying to say that because of the difficulties gays and lesbians go through to get a child, they will value them more etc. and it is a reasonable assumption to make (if it is indeed what you are saying as you phrase it poorly, IMO). Yet you seem to wilfully ignore the possibilty that these difficulties could turn for the bad as well as the good. Heterosexuals go through their own set of difficulties as well. The results will depend more on the character of the people involved I think. After all there is more to an individual than the sex of the person they happen to partner with, no?

 

[sigh]

I don't think that what I said reflects an attitude that anyone needs to be part of a "perfect family". In fact, I was careful not to express myself in such terms.

I do, however, believe that children should be exposed to both male and female influences, in order to assure their full social development. I don't think those influences need necessarily be parental or familial.

I'm sorry, Q. I didn't mean to imply that at all, though when I just reread what I wrote, I see that it most certainly reads that way. I'm not sure exactly how to say it properly. It's just a feeling I had in the middle of that night, and right now I can't find a way to put it down so that it makes sense.

But I do apologize. I really didn't mean to say it the way it came out. I'll think about it, then come back and try to make it more clear. Right now, though, it's off to work for me.

Have a good day, all.

 

[Queersetti]

I'm sorry, Q. I didn't mean to imply that at all, though when I just reread what I wrote, I see that it most certainly reads that way. I'm not sure exactly how to say it properly. It's just a feeling I had in the middle of that night, and right now I can't find a way to put it down so that it makes sense.

But I do apologize. I really didn't mean to say it the way it came out. I'll think about it, then come back and try to make it more clear. Right now, though, it's off to work for me.

Have a good day, all.

No harm done. I have enormous respect for your opinions, and I'll look forward to reading more of your view on this subject.

 

[deezire1900]

I'm gay. I have a child, but in no way did I want one when when he came.

I am misunderstanding this statement. You did not know you were gay, at the time?

and I think, without you wanting too, you reinforced my point, that in some (NOT ALL, but way to offen) hetrosexual couples have unwanted children. Please don't get me wrong...i think that parents can be wonderful no matter what their S/O.

 

[deezire1900]

It just seems as if you have a very black and white view on the situation quite similar to the one bigoted heterosexuals have towards child-reariing and family:judging or evaluating parenting capabilities merely on sexual lifestyle. It is only that yours can be placed in a more sympathetic light based on the difficulties in life that homosexuals face. I sometimes think that you're trying to say that because of the difficulties gays and lesbians go through to get a child, they will value them more etc. and it is a reasonable assumption to make (if it is indeed what you are saying as you phrase it poorly, IMO). Yet you seem to wilfully ignore the possibilty that these difficulties could turn for the bad as well as the good. Heterosexuals go through their own set of difficulties as well. The results will depend more on the character of the people involved I think. After all there is more to an individual than the sex of the person they happen to partner with, no?

I do have very strong views on Gay parents. and i am not ashamed to say how I feel about the subject. All parents have difficulties, to that i agree. Although, I think that hetro couples that do not intend to have a child have many more.

 

[sigh]

I am misunderstanding this statement. You did not know you were gay, at the time?

and I think, without you wanting too, you reinforced my point, that in some (NOT ALL, but way to offen) hetrosexual couples have unwanted children. Please don't get me wrong...i think that parents can be wonderful no matter what their S/O.

That you misunderstood my statement is exactly what I meant. See, I tried to say that you can't assume anything about anybody, but in suggesting that I reinforced your point, I think you made another assumption - that I became pregnant while involved in a heterosexual relationship - but that's not how it happened.

Let's go back to your question, though. No, I didn't know that I was gay at the time, but then I'd hardly thought about being heterosexual at the time either. I was just a kid. Hell, I spent more time giggling than thinking back then. Life was still fun and there was absolutely nothing dark on the horizon for as far as I could seen in any direction. Sex wasn't a part of me yet, so when I became pregnant, it had nothing to do with sexual orientation. Hell, it hardly had anything to do with sex beyond the pure mechanics and the reproductive thing. I didn't unwisely choose to have sex with a boy. In fact, I didn't choose any part of it at all and I hope you can figure out the rest of it because I really don't want to go into it any more than that, okay?

Hon, let me back up a minute. I hope you know that this is a friendly talk. I know I can sound a bit preachy but I just get that way sometimes. Don't take it personally. I don't mean anything by it.

And...well shit...this is about as disjointed a response as I've come up with for a long time. Maybe I should back out of this discussion. I feel an edge coming on that I've managed to keep blunted for quite awhile now.

Just take my advice, okay? When it comes to people and sexual orientation and the whole wide world of social (and not so social) relationships, you can't take anything for granted. You can't assume anything at all. I know it takes me a billion words to say anthing, but in the end, it all boils down to that.

 

[sigh]

Q, this one's for you.

Fair or not, for years to come gay families will suffer, I think, when compared to non-gay families. There's this ideal picture of a family that's presented everywhere, all the time, in books, movies, TV and ads, and in hardly any of those images of a perfect family will you find two dads, or two moms. And even if occasionally you do, I've never seen an ideal family portrayed with a single, gay mom. The perfect family image is a pervasive and overwhelming part of our culture - I think Q's comment reflects that - and it's an image we don't comfortably fit into at all.

Yes, this is me, quoting myself, and yes, I said that. It pretty much says what I think about the subject, but I want to take a few minutes to explain what I was getting at when I interjected that little piece at the end about Q's comment. I owe him that because I misrepresented his intent, even though I knew at the time that he didn't mean it that way. I just didn't use the language properly, and it came out all wrong.

I didn't mean that I thought that Q was picturing an idealized family when he suggested that it would be best for a child to be exposed to the influences of both genders while growing up. What I meant was that such a notion is perhaps the result of eons of cultural influence on how we think about these things. In other words, is it truly better to have both a male and female parental-type influence in a child's life, or are we just conditioned to think that way because that's the way it's been for......well, for just about forever?

We have this notion of family driven into us from day one. It's in our childhood books, the first colorful movies we saw as kids, and virtually every television show from Leave it to Beaver to Happy Days to even the more modern sitcoms like Frazier and (dare I suggest it) Everybody Loves Raymond. Even though the last two reflect less than ideal families, they still reinforce the notion, very strongly at times, that a good father and a good mother are both important in raising a child.

And I guess I'm just raising the question of whether that's true, or if it's just social conditioning speaking through our mouths.

Clearly I'm hardly decided on the matter myself. Read my first post in this thread and it's pretty obvious that I yearn for the ideal myself, no matter how far outside the norm I might lie. It's not an easy question for anybody, and I really didn't mean to put Q on the spot by pigeon-holing him into one side of the equation.


If I made that more clear, it's probably only through divine intervention. It still reads mostly like mud to me. Sorry, Q, it's the best I can do.

 

[Netzach]

I think we all kinda have a psychic nuclear family that we long for, and yeah, it's rarely got two parents of the same gender in it. But it's a fantasy, really.

That doesn't mean we are damaged without the actual thing, but I'm with you to a certain degree there.

There are shocking fuck ups in the world of queer parenting too, let's get real. There's been some minor news coverage of a lesbian couple who savagely, I mean SAVAGELY mistreated one of the partner's five sons. The kids had to run away and tell authorities.

Just like lesbians and gays are perfectly capable of domestically abusing one another.

The problem is that our parental fuck ups are going to draw a lot more fire than straight ones.

 

[Queersetti]

Re: Q, this one's for you.

Fair or not, for years to come gay families will suffer, I think, when compared to non-gay families. There's this ideal picture of a family that's presented everywhere, all the time, in books, movies, TV and ads, and in hardly any of those images of a perfect family will you find two dads, or two moms. And even if occasionally you do, I've never seen an ideal family portrayed with a single, gay mom. The perfect family image is a pervasive and overwhelming part of our culture - I think Q's comment reflects that - and it's an image we don't comfortably fit into at all.

Yes, this is me, quoting myself, and yes, I said that. It pretty much says what I think about the subject, but I want to take a few minutes to explain what I was getting at when I interjected that little piece at the end about Q's comment. I owe him that because I misrepresented his intent, even though I knew at the time that he didn't mean it that way. I just didn't use the language properly, and it came out all wrong.

I didn't mean that I thought that Q was picturing an idealized family when he suggested that it would be best for a child to be exposed to the influences of both genders while growing up. What I meant was that such a notion is perhaps the result of eons of cultural influence on how we think about these things. In other words, is it truly better to have both a male and female parental-type influence in a child's life, or are we just conditioned to think that way because that's the way it's been for......well, for just about forever?

We have this notion of family driven into us from day one. It's in our childhood books, the first colorful movies we saw as kids, and virtually every television show from Leave it to Beaver to Happy Days to even the more modern sitcoms like Frazier and (dare I suggest it) Everybody Loves Raymond. Even though the last two reflect less than ideal families, they still reinforce the notion, very strongly at times, that a good father and a good mother are both important in raising a child.

And I guess I'm just raising the question of whether that's true, or if it's just social conditioning speaking through our mouths.

Clearly I'm hardly decided on the matter myself. Read my first post in this thread and it's pretty obvious that I yearn for the ideal myself, no matter how far outside the norm I might lie. It's not an easy question for anybody, and I really didn't mean to put Q on the spot by pigeon-holing him into one side of the equation.


If I made that more clear, it's probably only through divine intervention. It still reads mostly like mud to me. Sorry, Q, it's the best I can do.

I appreciate your clarification, and I found it quite articulate.

To further the discussion, I'd like to ask you, and other parents, to what extend you try to bring other gender influences into your child's life and how you go about it.

 

[sigh]

Re: Re: Q, this one's for you.

To further the discussion, I'd like to ask you, and other parents, to what extend you try to bring other gender influences into your child's life and how you go about it.

I'm very lucky in that I live next door to a favorite cousin (and dear friend) who's filled that role in my son's life for several years now. In fact, it's more than next door. There are two apartments on the top floor of our delightful, old apartment building and my son and I have one, and Rico and his wife have the other. The only access to the floor is a keyed elevator so we hardly ever have our doors locked. It's more like we live all together than next door.

The downside is that I've become too dependent on them, I think. It's difficult to imagine living anywhere else because they help me so much, and in it's way that's a bit restraining, and explains why I still live in central Illinois when there's a whole wonderful world out there.

But the advantages to my son are impossible to ignore. We're the closest thing to a traditional family that I'm likely ever to approach. It's almost like he has three parents instead of one. Having a good man in his life certainly hasn't hurt my child, and since he has special needs, maybe he needs that more than most. He has a hard time picking up the subtlties of human interactions on his own.

Unfortunately, his grandpa is dead so if it weren't for Rico, he wouldn't know that men pee standing up, and what sort of life would that be for a boy? He'd be squatting in the woods on camping trips just like his silly mom.

 

[John Doe]

I have a homosexual parent and the other's het.

In my formative years I was either unaware of the sexuality or it wasn't a big deal to me.