Chibi

[Purple Sage]

I was reading the thread on whether or not Lewis Carrol was a pedophile, and Chibi popped into my head. For those of you that don't know, Chibi are a particular style of anime figure that are, basically, very short and stumpy. While a typical anime-style figure is about 6 or 7 'heads' tall, a Chibi is generally about 2 heads tall. This, among other things, gives them a childlike appearance.
They also have HUGE eyes, very large, bulbous foreheads, and big cheeks. Their noses are very low down on the face, as is the 'eye line'. These also give a very childlike appearance. Anime characters in general have much larger eyes and generally more childlike features than their western counterparts, but the Chibi take this to extremes.

Some Chibi characters actually are children, but many are teens, adults, animals, monsters, whatever. And many come in the guise of cat-girls, maids, nurses, schoolgirls, secretaries and superheroines- in other words, sexual icons. On a purely visual level, there's often no way to distinguish between a Chibi child playing dress up as a nurse and a Chibi adult sexy-nurse character.

So, what's my point? That the Japanese are sick, childmolesting fucks? No, actually, my experience of Japan points in quite the opposite direction. I suspect that a lot of American Chibi fans, coming from a very different cultural milieu, are in fact pedophiles, but I'm sure that a lot aren't- heck, a pretty good fraction of American Chibi fans are children themselves. So, what's up with kid-proportioned sexy 'adult' characters? What emotional, psychological or cultural chords are being played here? What does this say about the fundamentals of human sexuality? What does it say about American culture? Go ahead, be brilliant.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Chibiphilia?

Sorry, out of brilliance

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Chibis are easier to draw (read: without losing the cuteness) than normal manga-figures, hence their popularity.

 

[Weepingguitar]

*points to my chibi D av* Soooo cute!!!! The regular character is a Vampire Hunter who could kill you before you even knew it...but I just want to grab chibi D and squeeze!! Okay...I'm done being strange now ^_^

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I'm done being strange now ^_^

And for your grande finale, you'll do "Cinderella"?

 

[alice_underneath]

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[rikaaim]

I'm with the other's on the chibi thing as far as understanding the manga aspect of it, and of course anime. I'm a fan of both mediums and enjoy them very much. My opinion is that the chibi factor can take a very serious, and sometimes dark, character and lighten the mood of that charater. Aside from being easier to draw, as Svenska said, they are used popularly for comic relief. Little bodies, big head and eyes, extremem emotion in the face with little to do with the actual body language. It's all about the reaction. Comedy. I love reading a manga called Chobits. There are a lot of very graphic, as in detailed, characters and settings, but when I see a chibi character, it does inspire that AWWW...it's so cute! factor. If you ask me what the "target" audience of such a character is, I would venture a guess and say younger girls, early teens or around that age, that think of these chibi characters as another cutesy collectable, like the pokemon were so long ago. I know many friends that abosultely love chibi plushies of the Inuyasha characters. The same with Wg's excitment over her vampire hunter. My two cents and insight into the subject.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It is bizarre and a bit disturbing to see adults walking around in these outfits. Whether this is some form of overt, uninhibited role play, an inane allegiance to bizarre fashion trends, or something else entirely, is hard to say.

You have just explained to the audience why I refuse to wear panties with Winnie the Pooh or Snoopy.

 

[alice_underneath]

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[Selena_Kitt]

No, I am not talking about the naughty schoolgirl look. I am talking about over-sized baby bonnets and Shirley-Temple-style dresses. Adult women in exaggerated toddler clothing.

That particular culture has always had a fascination with the diminutive... foot binding, for example... anything to make women appear small and childlike...

it's psychologically interesting... !

 

[alice_underneath]

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[Weepingguitar]

There are as many forms of anime as there are movies in America. Most anime is NOT geared towards children, or even early to mid teens. I want to kick Disney people in the head for releasing Hayo Miazaki's movies as children's movies. I am very pleased that Miazaki got an Oscar for Spirited Away, but I have friends my age who had no idea what was going on in that movie. Plus, even that movie has scenes with blood dripping from walls. Not exactaly kids stuff...damn you Eisner!!!

Anyway, Miazaki is a god. Turner Classic Movies had a month long tribute to him this month, and last night they played Pom Poko. I had only seen short clips of this before...and I knew that all the animals had very prominent balls just hanging right out there in the open. I had no idea what they did with them though!!!! One racoon turns his "racoon pouch," his balls, into a friggin ship and sails away on it! The first instance of ball sac transformation was when a group of hte racoons were all sitting on a blanket...but it was actually the head racoon's balls...

I don't think I've laughed that hard in ages.

 

[Guest]

One of my brothers lived in Tokyo 17+ years. Though I had no desire to visit Japan, I took an interest in the culture through him and have done much research (reading ) on a variety of things Japonnaise.

One thing my brother often commented on was the Japanese obsession for "cute", even among men. You think 'Hello Kitty' injurious to adult sensibilities, you have no idea . And, hand in hand with the cute: sexual fixations and compulsions to amaze even Charlus and Zoot . Now add to the mix the distinguishing fascination and history of violence.

I do not mean any of this to be judgmentally prejudicial, just relevant to the thread.

Perdita

 

[Purple Sage]

Chibis are easier to draw (read: without losing the cuteness) than normal manga-figures, hence their popularity.

Easier to draw doesn't explain their appeal to anyone but artists. I'm not sure it even explains anything there- I'm an artist, and I've just taken up the task of learning to draw Chibi- mostly because I'm trying to figure out what the hell they mean, really. While the smaller figures don't allow room for a lot of the detail of full-sized manga figures, they aren't particularly easier to draw, because there is A) an emphasis on expression that, IMO, has to be just right; B) In reducing the detail of costume it's critical to get the key elements, you don't get to fool the eye with lots of extraneous detail; and C) Poses and costumes don't work in the 'normal' way because of the strange proportions. I suppose I'll get used to most of this in time, but I don't see it as inherently easier than anything else.

 

[Purple Sage]

*points to my chibi D av* Soooo cute!!!! The regular character is a Vampire Hunter who could kill you before you even knew it...but I just want to grab chibi D and squeeze!! Okay...I'm done being strange now ^_^

Yes... sooo cute... but why? Because it's childlike. But the character is adult, dangerous. Combine cute/harmless with adult/dangerous... I see something there. Obviously that's a principal that can be applied to sex as well- makes sexy safe- you're not looking at porn, you're looking at cute- but that logic strikes me as more than a little pervy at base. Not that I have anything against pervy, mind you.

 

[Purple Sage]

My apologies, Mr. Sage. I can't really think of anything brilliant to say about the appeal of chibi in American culture. I don't even know which demographic groups are interested in these characters.

However, I would like to make a comment about Japanese culture.

I spent two weeks on vacation in Japan last year, and was astonished by the prevailing fashion trend among some Japanese teens and young adults. Specifically, women dressing like baby dolls.

No, I am not talking about the naughty schoolgirl look. I am talking about over-sized baby bonnets and Shirley-Temple-style dresses. Adult women in exaggerated toddler clothing.

It is bizarre and a bit disturbing to see adults walking around in these outfits. Whether this is some form of overt, uninhibited role play, an inane allegiance to bizarre fashion trends, or something else entirely, is hard to say.

But it does highlight an aspect of Japanese culture that is difficult for me, as an American, to comprehend.

Alice

Of course, the Japanese regard our cultural icons differently than we do, as we regard theirs differently than they do. Whatever this stuff means to the Japanese, it's bound to be different than it is to us. However, I agree that it can be a little off-putting. There's a level on which I'm perfectly comfortable considering the Japanese to be space aliens that humans will never understand, and withhold all judgement on them, but it's interesting how Americans respond to our own cultural icons being translated into Japanese and then returned to us. I think, somewhere, somehow, it has a lot to say about issues of childhood and sexuality (in the Chibi case, that is).

 

[Purple Sage]

I'm with the other's on the chibi thing as far as understanding the manga aspect of it, and of course anime. I'm a fan of both mediums and enjoy them very much. My opinion is that the chibi factor can take a very serious, and sometimes dark, character and lighten the mood of that charater. Aside from being easier to draw, as Svenska said, they are used popularly for comic relief. Little bodies, big head and eyes, extremem emotion in the face with little to do with the actual body language. It's all about the reaction. Comedy. I love reading a manga called Chobits. There are a lot of very graphic, as in detailed, characters and settings, but when I see a chibi character, it does inspire that AWWW...it's so cute! factor. If you ask me what the "target" audience of such a character is, I would venture a guess and say younger girls, early teens or around that age, that think of these chibi characters as another cutesy collectable, like the pokemon were so long ago. I know many friends that abosultely love chibi plushies of the Inuyasha characters. The same with Wg's excitment over her vampire hunter. My two cents and insight into the subject.

I don't know what the demographics of manga readership are, but I notice that you're not a girl, younger or not (unless that's a very misleading avatar). I haven't read Chobits, but I believe I've seen some characters from it, which appear to be cutesy/sexual- so what's your take on the appeal there? For you, not some projected 12 year old girl.

 

[Weepingguitar]

Yes... sooo cute... but why? Because it's childlike. But the character is adult, dangerous. Combine cute/harmless with adult/dangerous... I see something there. Obviously that's a principal that can be applied to sex as well- makes sexy safe- you're not looking at porn, you're looking at cute- but that logic strikes me as more than a little pervy at base. Not that I have anything against pervy, mind you.

Ah yes, but the original character is even sexier ^_^ But the chibi is more approachable. That reminds me...the next Vampire Hunter D book should actually be out now...hmmm, I might have to go shopping tonight...

 

[Purple Sage]

You have just explained to the audience why I refuse to wear panties with Winnie the Pooh or Snoopy.

Yes, grown women in cartoon panties has always seemed a little... odd to me. I think it's an appeal to a subconscious pedophiliac perspective, as well as an avoidance of growing up on some level. Which comments are likely to annoy some 25 yr old hottie in a Powerpuff Girls thong, but that's okay- I have my asbestos longjohns on.

 

[Purple Sage]

In elementary school, my daughter went through a phase in which she obsessed over cutesy Pokemon, Neopets, etc.

She is now 16 and uninterested in anime or cutesy figures of any kind. However, she does have a few friends who are manga fans. But the type of manga appreciated by these teens (male and female) generally involves teen or young adult characters drawn in a realistic way.

Alice

P.S. to Svenskaflicka - LOL!

First off, there's no such thing as manga characters drawn in a realistic way. The Japanese have a penchant for facial distortion that pervades the medium. The eyes are too big, the noses strangely abstracted, the chins infantiley diminutive. Most of the Chibi principles are at work in manga in general, just not to the same extreme.
Second, she sounds more like 16 year olds when I was one- eager to grow up. That seems less prevalent than it did back in the day... but that might just be the old coot in me talking. I gotta stop eating old coots.

 

[Purple Sage]

That particular culture has always had a fascination with the diminutive... foot binding, for example... anything to make women appear small and childlike...

it's psychologically interesting... !

Footbinding is a Chinese, not Japanese, phenomenon. In a more general sense, however, I agree. It's a fascination that seems to evoke a powerful resonance in American culture, too.

 

[Purple Sage]

Ah yes, but the original character is even sexier ^_^ But the chibi is more approachable. .

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Safer- yet linked to the more dangerous and sexual aspect. Is this one of the things that pedophilia is basically about?

 

[Purple Sage]

One of my brothers lived in Tokyo 17+ years. Though I had no desire to visit Japan, I took an interest in the culture through him and have done much research (reading ) on a variety of things Japonnaise.

One thing my brother often commented on was the Japanese obsession for "cute", even among men. You think 'Hello Kitty' injurious to adult sensibilities, you have no idea . And, hand in hand with the cute: sexual fixations and compulsions to amaze even Charlus and Zoot . Now add to the mix the distinguishing fascination and history of violence.

I do not mean any of this to be judgmentally prejudicial, just relevant to the thread.

Perdita

I think it's relevant, but what I'm most interested in is the American response to all this. Psychoanalyzing the Japanese is beyond my scope- but Americans seem pretty fascinated not only with our flavors of sexuality and violence, but also the imported version. There seems to be a pretty big generational gap on how these images are received, but I'm not sure exactly what the differences are.

 

[Sex and Death]

That particular culture has always had a fascination with the diminutive... foot binding, for example... anything to make women appear small and childlike...

it's psychologically interesting... !

I agree, Selena. the Japanese culture literalizes its spiritual tradition of life energy as being symbolized and represented by youth into the infantilaztion of many things, including sexuality. And unquestioning bondage and duty, as we know, have been a part of Japanese culture for thousands of years.

It's interesting...in fairy tales and myths there are often dwarfish, elfish, gnome-like characters that represent a connection with nature and the earth. These characters offer help, guidance, gifts and clues for the main character. They are also often funny and comic, much like the court jester figures we are familair with. They represent wisdom coming from the most unlikely small, low and insignificant-seeming places, like Yoda, or Jiminy Cricket. It also the same dynamic that allowed hobbits (Bilbo and Frodo), the small creatures, innocent and close to nature and the earth, to carry the greatest weight in the world, the One Ring, to its destruction, while far greater and more powerful figures were bowed low by the temptations of the One Ring.. The innocence and humility of hobbits allowed them to bear a weight that other races could not.

The words "humour" and "humility" both come from the word "humus," meaning soil, or earth. The word "humous" can mean humpbacked or hunchbacked, as many court jesters figures are portrayed.

Many of these figures, such as chibi, represent comic relief and wisdom originating from our most earthy and human (imperfect) aspects and qualities.

Diminutive court jesters could get away with saying doing things to the King and court for which others would be killed. Jesters kept the high and mighty connected to the earth, grounded, and helped them from becoming too inflated. The jesters were allowed to venture into the areas of sex and sexuality in order to do their job. This seems to me to be, in part, the function of chibi when they appear as sexy characters.

I have trouble fully grasping the sexual appeal of the whole midget thing, but its a major porn arena.

 

[alice_underneath]

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