Charly D.

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I confess, absurd in the highest degree.
Charles Darwin

 

[Guru]

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Thanks, Todd, for the irrefutable proof that creation is true.

I wasn't offering proof for or against I was just presenting some interesting quotes

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

"Darwin asked his imaginary reader to suppose the existence of: `a Being with penetration sufficient to perceive differences in the outer and innermost organization quite imperceptible to man, and with forethought extending over future centuries to watch with unerring care and select for any object the offspring of an organism produced under the foregoing circumstances, I can see no conceivable reason why he could not form a new race (or several were he to separate the stock of the original organism and work on several islands) adapted to new ends. As we assume his discrimination, and his forethought, and his steadiness of object, to be incomparably greater than those qualities in man, so we may suppose the beauty and complications of the adaptations of the new races and their differences from the original stock to be greater than in the domestic races produced by man's agency.... With time enough, such a Being might rationally (without some unknown law opposed him) aim at almost any result....Seeing what blind capricious man has actually effected by selection during the few last years, and what in a ruder state he has probably effected without any systematic plan during the last few thousand years, he will be a bold person who will positively put limits to what the supposed Being could effect during whole geological periods' (Darwin F., ed. "The Foundations of the Origin of Species, Two Essays Written in 1842 and 1844, by Charles Darwin," Cambridge UK, 1909, pp.85-87).

 

[Guru]

 

[Guru]

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Citing my source: http://pages.britishlibrary.net/charles.darwin/

http://pages.britishlibrary.net/charles.darwin/texts/foundations/foundations_02.htm

section 85 paragraph 2

 

[Guru]

 

[Guru]

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

"Why then is not every geological formation full of such intermediate links. Geology assuredly does not reveal any finely graduated organic change, and this is the most obvious and serious objection that can be urged against the theory". (Charles Darwin, The origin of the species).

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Nice use of ellipses to lie, Todd.

how is it a lie when he isn't even supporting a belief in God he is setting up a god strawman and knocking it down

 

[Guru]

 

[Guru]

 

[Guru]

 

[Guru]

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Are you comparing God to a straw-man?

only the God that he sets up and then debunks

I just like the quotes, he has a lot of duality within himself, they make him more real to me as I read them again and again and see that he had the same stuggles between his religious training and his scientific training.

It reminds me of myself as i read his letters and his origins of the species and watch his struggle to choose one or the other not realizing the blend of the two that was/would be possible

he makes a straw god when he finally concludes to his scientific training almost like the wolf ccalling sour grapes after not being able to attain them.

 

[Guru]

 

[Guru]

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

For instance, let this imaginary Being wish, from seeing a plant growing on the decaying matter in a forest and choked by other plants, to give it power of growing on the rotten stems of trees, he would commence selecting every seedling whose berries were in the smallest degree more attractive to tree-frequenting birds, so as to cause a proper dissemination of the seeds, and at the same time he would select those plants which had in the slightest degree more and more power of drawing nutriment from rotten wood ; and he would destroy all other seedlings with less of this power. He might thus, in the course of century after century, hope to make the plant by degrees grow on rotten wood, even high up on trees, wherever birds dropped the non-digested seeds. He might then, if the organization of the plant was plastic, attempt by continued selection of chance seedlings to make it grow on less and less rotten wood, till it would grow on sound wood1. Supposing again, during these changes the plant failed to seed quite freely from non-impregnation, he might begin selecting seedlings with a little sweeter (or) differently tasted honey or pollen, to tempt insects to visit the flowers regularly: having effected this, he might wish, if it profited the plant, to render abortive the stamens and pistils in different flowers, which he could do by continued selection. By such

1 The mistletoe is used as an illustration in Origin, Ed. i. p. 3, vi. p. 3, but with less detail.

NATURAL SELECTION 87

steps he might aim at making a plant as wonderfully related to other organic beings as is the mistletoe, whose existence absolutely depends on certain insects for impregnation, certain birds for transportal, and certain trees for growth. Furthermore, if the insect which had been induced regularly to visit this hypothetical plant profited much by it, our same Being might wish by selection to modify by gradual selection the insect's structure, so as to facilitate its obtaining the honey or pollen : in this manner he might adapt the insect (always presupposing its organization to be in some degree plastic) to the flower, and the impregnation of the flower to the insect ; as is the case with many bees and many plants.

Seeing what blind capricious man has actually effected by selection during the few last years, and what in a ruder state he has probably effected without any systematic plan during the last few thousand years, he will be a bold person who will positively put limits to what the supposed Being could effect during whole geological periods. In accordance with the plan by which this universe seems governed by the Creator, let us consider whether there exists any secondary means in the economy of nature by which the process of selection could go on adapting, nicely and wonderfully, organisms, if in ever so small a degree plastic, to diverse ends. I believe such secondary means do exist1.



theres the rest of it for you

I thought the snippings presented more of his duality that i mesh with, I do not see how anything that I have quotedeven comes close to supporting creationism

 

[Guru]

To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I confess, absurd in the highest degree.
Charles Darwin

This isn't a Creationist misquoted argument?

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Re: Re: Charly D.

This isn't a Creationist misquoted argument?

i have never seen a reputeable creationisst use that quote as proof of darwin being pro-creationist, I have seen some shifty snake oil creationist use it.

 

[Guru]

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Charly D.

Thank you, Todd.

that aptly describes about a dozen I am thinking of as well

 

[Guru]

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Are we done with the counter-quoting? I'd like to close my Darwin window now.

i guess so, its up to you, I thought you were just trying to get your post count up