Charlie Kirk would still be alive if we had an assault weapon ban in place.

[Baztrachian]

What is considered a legitimate reason for owning a firearm?

Overthrowing a shitbag government like they have in the UK would be a good reason.

 

[ll74]

Overthrowing a shitbag government like they have in the UK would be a good reason.

Someone has gone off the rails.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Its not inconvienent. Its misinformation.

It's factual:

In 2023, the US recorded approximately 17,900 gun homicides, compared to about 41,000 motor vehicle crash deaths.

More than double the number of people are killed by vehicles than guns in the US.

No we cannot start with the fact that guns don't cause shootings

Then we're at an impasse, because you cannot convince me guns decide to go on shooting sprees and the humans holding them are not the actual actor.

 

[TastySuckToy]

What is considered a legitimate reason for owning a firearm?

I would say that every person has a right to self defense.

My opinion is the second amendment is the provision that makes owning a firearm legitimate.

Is entertainment a legitimate reason? Target practice, competition?
Is being a collector a legitimate reason?
Is self defense a legitimate reason?

I'd say yes to all of the above.

 

[PersonalFavors]

What is considered a legitimate reason for owning a firearm? My opinion is the second amendment is the provision that makes owning a firearm legitimate.

There are restrictions that make sense, but they would backfire the same way healthcare in the US was dismantled by government. You would not be able to trust the government to determine who is a mental misfit.
Example. Did Tyler Robinson's family know he was practicing his fictional fetish as he continued to possess the 30.06 family heirloom he used to murder Charlie Cook? If they did are they as guilty as Tyler?
In Sandy Hook, I believe the mother who allowed access to that mentally challenged kid is guilty too. We will never hear it in the media, but is she still legally allowed to own a gun?

 

[Rightguide]

What is considered a legitimate reason for owning a firearm? My opinion is the second amendment is the provision that makes owning a firearm legitimate.

Is entertainment a legitimate reason? Target practice, competition?
Is being a collector a legitimate reason?
Is self defense a legitimate reason?

I think putting restrictions on social media would accomplish more, but then again that would be a violation of the 1st amendment.

We are Americans.

 

[Sean Renaud]

It's factual:

In 2023, the US recorded approximately 17,900 gun homicides, compared to about 41,000 motor vehicle crash deaths.

See this is why its hard to deal with people like you. You're either very dishonest or very stupid. Lets start with what you stated. You're comparing homicides, illegal killings by definition, to motor vehicle crashes almost all of which are accidents in one way shape or form. That makes your statement misinformation right out the gate. Even if your numbers were spot on and I'm pretty sure they are not you are giving two things that are not the same and hoping nobody notices. MISINFORMATION.

I'm not going to keep digging here are the official numbers for 2015-2019. Total homicides in the US range between 14k and 15k. We know 2020 was a bit off an outlier and yes gun deaths do make up the vast majority of homicides if there were more gun deaths in 2023 than there had been murders period in the prior years I'm fairly certain the media would never have shut up about it. So you need to provide better data than "trust me bro." This is a new computer, I used to have links saved to all the FBI stats and health organizations.

Vehichular homicides are so low they are labeled under "other."

So right there you are done. Intentions fucking matter.

From 1975 to 2023 there has been an average of 40k (ish) vehicle related deaths and falling despite an increase in population and drivers. Which in short means it should have increased in raw numbers just because there are a lot more people in the US today than in 1975 but we're not seeing that trend. These are almost exclusively accidents which is important.

I can't find reliable stats (I doubt they exist) on how many times the average person interacts with a vehicle on a daily basis. I'm going to use my anti-social ass as a median even though I know that's incorrect. Interact directly for roughly sixty minutes per day, five days a week. I have a roughly thirty minute commute, I never go out on weekends and I mostly do my shopping online so I don't even leave the house for that. I interact with a gun for thirty minutes twice a month, or I did back when I was actively training which most Americans don't do. (When I was doing that I should add an extra ninety minutes of commute but whatever) You see how the numbers work out? Hardly any children deal with guns even on an annual basis all of them get driven somewhere at least once a week. So the numbers not adding up makes perfect sense. Its like you telling me that more people get killed by dogs than sharks. Its 100% true and 100% misinformation. That doesn't mean you should be afraid of dogs and not afraid of sharks. It means most people don't get to the beach nearly as often as they encounter a fucking dog.

More than double the number of people are killed by vehicles than guns in the US.

Also not nearly double the number and I didn't bother drawing in police shootings, justifiable homicides, suicides or accidents all of which should be counted.

Then we're at an impasse, because you cannot convince me guns decide to go on shooting sprees and the humans holding them are not the actual actor.

Guns don't need to "decide" anything. They need to facilitate something. Our impasse is that I cannot convince you that planes decide to carry cargo from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. Without planes humans would just shout "Up, Up and AWAY!" the goods would still fly from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. Since unlike you I live in the real world that is not how it actually works. If you subtract the gun from the situation your mass shootings go way down. Most of the guns used were legally obtained mind you. If we're talking homicides which is what you chose to focus on if you go back to the above murder stats look at the relationship to the victim. The numbers are frighteningly high for men ontheir Significant others. We are emotionally unstable. Just the facts. What that means is most of these deaths aren't caused by criminals who would have had the weapon either way. They are from people who at least claim the weapon is for self defense and had an emotional response. A frighteningly large number being people under the influence.

So our impasse is that I am honest about how tools make accomplishing tasks easier or in some cases possible at all. I promise you the planet where Michael Phelps and his loyal team of dolphins ship cars from Japan to California without boats doesn't exist. Just like the world where any random Joe tears up a club with a knife while it has happened its SO fucking rare we can safely label it as shit that doesn't happen. You are dishonest using mixed stats and the delussion that if you took away guns all those disgruntled people at schools and churches would turn into Jason Fucking Vorhees and still get equal body counts.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Its like you telling me that more people get killed by dogs than sharks.

Like I said, you anti gun fanatics don't care about actual deaths. You're only concerned when examples involve your favourite tool to try and blame for human actions.

Also not nearly double the number and I didn't bother drawing in police shootings, justifiable homicides, suicides or accidents all of which should be counted.

I pointed out more people die by vehicles than are murdered by guns. That's a factual assessment. It was a total deaths comparison between people murdered by guns and people killed by vehicles.

If you subtract the gun from the situation your mass shootings go way down.

And if you subtract vehicles, vehicle deaths go down. If you substract knives, stabbings go down. So what. The existence of the tool or technology is not the problem.

So our impasse is that I am honest about how tools make accomplishing tasks easier or in some cases possible at all.

I've never claimed tools don't make tasks or actions easier. I just don't blame the tool for human actions, choices and behaviors, which is what you're trying to do.

 

[ll74]

We are Americans.

So all the mass shooters have a legitimate reason to have a gun, in your opinion.

Got it.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Like I said, you anti gun fanatics don't care about actual deaths. You're only concerned when examples involve your favourite tool to try and blame for human actions.

I pointed out more people die by vehicles than are murdered by guns. That's a factual assessment. It was a total deaths comparison between people murdered by guns and people killed by vehicles.

And if you subtract vehicles, vehicle deaths go down. If you substract knives, stabbings go down. So what. The existence of the tool or technology is not the problem.

I've never claimed tools don't make tasks or actions easier. I just don't blame the tool for human actions, choices and behaviors, which is what you're trying to do.

We completely care about actual deaths. However the comparison you've given is false. Yes you pointed out a factual statement that is misinformation. That's how you operate. Yes if you subtract vehicles the numbe of vehicle deaths go down. The numbers of lives saved and made possible at all also go down. There is no comparison between how many people wouldn't be alive without cars vs without guns.

Not blaming the tool for something that would be impossible without it is simply dishonest.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Not blaming the tool for something that would be impossible without it is simply dishonest.

Like I said, you anti gun fanatics do not grasp the absolute irrationality of trying to blame tools for human behavior, choices and actions.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Any high powered rifle could have killed Charlie Kirk.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Like I said, you anti gun fanatics do not grasp the absolute irrationality of trying to blame tools for human behavior, choices and actions.

I'm not even anti-gun. You make that assumption because I understand the facts. If the behaviour, choice or action is difficult or impossible without a tool the tool is the problem.

 

[TastySuckToy]

If the behaviour, choice or action is difficult or impossible without a tool the tool is the problem.

Tens of millions (or more) of responsible gun owners and users handily prove the tool is not the problem.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Tens of millions (or more) of responsible gun owners and users handily prove the tool is not the problem.

No they do not. For starters there are NO remotely reliable numbers for how many "responsible" gun owners even exist but being able to prove that there are people who don't use a certain tool a certain way doesn't mean that it's not the problem. That's just dishonest. I get that you are fundamentally dishonest but there it is. There are over seven billion people who aren't American and this doesn't happen anywhere else for a reason.

 

[TastySuckToy]

For starters there are NO remotely reliable numbers for how many "responsible" gun owners even exist

• Overall Ownership:
  A 2023 Pew survey found 32% of U.S. adults own a gun, with 10% living in a gun household but not owning one personally.
  
  
• As of September 2025, the estimated adult population in the U.S. is approximately 240 million
  

but being able to prove that there are people who don't use a certain tool a certain way doesn't mean that it's not the problem.

So in your world, thousands of examples of using a tool badly proves the tool is the problem, but tens of millions having and using the tool responsibly doesn't count?

That's just dishonest.

You just summarized your own position.

 

[Sean Renaud]

• Overall Ownership:
  A 2023 Pew survey found 32% of U.S. adults own a gun, with 10% living in a gun household but not owning one personally.
  
  
• As of September 2025, the estimated adult population in the U.S. is approximately 240 million

So in your world, thousands of examples of using a tool badly proves the tool is the problem, but tens of millions having and using the tool responsibly doesn't count?

You just summarized your own position.

No link? I don't care to confirm those numbers.

Yes in the real world, tens of millions "using" the tool responsibly does not eliminate the fact that the problem exists and if you remove the tool the problem doesn't exist. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. My opinion, my position is that people like you need to stop pretending to care when something happens. No thoughts and prayers for kids at whatever school or church gets shot up. No concern for the family of Charlie Kirk. Don't ask for our support if it happens to your daughter. Just the fact that shit happens, some of it happens to you and move along to the next thing.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Yes in the real world, tens of millions "using" the tool responsibly does not eliminate the fact that the problem exists and if you remove the tool the problem doesn't exist.

I never denied that people getting killed by guns is a problem. You're now slightly altering your wording, shifting the goalpost and hoping no one noticed. Nice try.

What I'm successfully refuting is your assertion that it is the guns that are the problem. Ten of millions of people safely owning and using guns clearly show that assertion to be false. That's not even taking into account the hundreds of thousands to millions of people using guns for things like self defense and stopping crime.

You do not take miniscule examples from the total and pretend those examples set the standard or the conclusion for the entirety.

You're just being blatantly dishonest (again).

 

[PersonalFavors]

I never denied that people getting killed by guns is a problem. You're now slightly altering your wording, shifting the goalpost and hoping no one noticed. Nice try.

What I'm successfully refuting is your assertion that it is the guns that are the problem. Ten of millions of people safely owning and using guns clearly show that assertion to be false. That's not even taking into account the hundreds of thousands to millions of people using guns for things like self defense and stopping crime.

You do not take miniscule examples from the total and pretend those examples set the standard or the conclusion for the entirety.

You're just being blatantly dishonest (again).

Look at his previous posts. He signs on as this user from time to time. His other users are lazeran and I forget the others. He will log on and have some construed opinion and accuse you of not having facts. I would say he was ai or a robot but he is not that consistent or good at the game.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Look at his previous posts. He signs on as this user from time to time. His other users are lazeran and I forget the others. He will log on and have some construed opinion and accuse you of not having facts. I would say he was ai or a robot but he is not that consistent or good at the game.

Maybe.

But the replies are not intended to convince him. The discourse is for the benefit of rational and logical readers, who can decide for themselves which side is being reasonable on the issue.

 

[DanOkeffie]

We NEED to BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS

stop being an idiot

 

[TrailerHitch]

stop being an idiot

He can't help it, with every topic, and every subsequent post, he proves he's either a troll or a naive dumb ass to stupid to think for himself.